Max heigth on panel/pole mount

[rsbhunter]

was wondering what would be a reasonable maximum height that 5 canadian solar cs6-230-p modules could be mounted on a pole ? Figuring a 6" or 8" sch. 80 pole....and with the right amount set in concrete...is 15' /20' possible? What about using guy wires at the top and mid point? Just curious in case i need to go raised for max sun sxposure....Thanks, rsbhunter

[HuntingHawk]

I saw a pic of a GM parking lot where solar panels were mounted real high & electric cars parked under them in the shade to be charged.

One thing you do want to consider is the ability to clean them. Also, if you live where there is snow the ability to get the snow off the panels.

JMO,
Ross

[grumble]

rsb, I don't know the size of your panels, but I gather they are 230W each? So they are probably about 3' x 5' each? 15 sq ft each, times 5 panels, is 75 square feet flopping around in the wind.

I'm no engineer, but I'm guessing that the 60+ mph winds we get every spring will play with the panels and the mount like a feather.

Speaking for myself, no way I'd put that much surface area any higher than I absolutely had to, and I certainly wouldn't do it with a single pole mount.

[nadja]

Tell you what I have seen that seemed to work pretty well for height. A couple up in Idaho had the same problem. He mounted 4 used telephone poles in the ground, put a beam across the front two and another beam on the rear two a little higher. Then when he mounted his panels they were solid mount at the top and the bottom. Said he had them like that for a few years already with little or no problem. As far as snow on them, since he already had them mounted at a 45 deg. angle , he could get up on the roof of his truck and with a long handled broom , clean them off pretty easy .

[12vman]

It really doesn't matter how high you mount them unless you have vandal issues. You figure the sun is how many thousands of miles away, how's 30-40 feet gonna make a difference.. ;)

Keep them as open to the sun as possible with the least chance of any shading. Keep them as close to the ground as possible so you can work on them if you need to.

I have mine 20' in the air on telephone poles and I plan to bring them down closer to the ground. I had vandal problems early in the game until I cleaned them out.. LOL

[nadja]

It really doesn't matter how high you mount them unless you have vandal issues. You figure the sun is how many thousands of miles away, how's 30-40 feet gonna make a difference.. ;)

Keep them as open to the sun as possible with the least chance of any shading. Keep them as close to the ground as possible so you can work on them if you need to.

I have mine 20' in the air on telephone poles and I plan to bring them down closer to the ground. I had vandal problems early in the game until I cleaned them out.. LOL

12vman. Actually height will make a difference if you are surrounded by trees and can't cut the ones in the way due to them being on somebody else's property. Shade is one of the worst detriments to solar. You need un-obstructed access to the sun as early as you can get it and also as late as possible Tree's can make a very large difference

[rsbhunter]

Nadja, that is the exact reason for the question...Thanks, rsbhunter

[12vman]

I agree.. If you need to mount them high to avoid shading, then that's whatcha gotta do. I still have 2 trees that should come down because of shading during the winter months..

[rsbhunter]

I'm hoping that by cutting somes trees, that i can keep them low...but it's always nice to have a plan "B" in the ready....i'll know when the snow melts up there and i can get in to do some research....might get one of those meters, so that i can leave it in different spots to find the best....thats what is nice about NOT having the cabin built yet... the 4 telephones buried sounds very doable, and cheaper than 21' lengths of sch 40 8" pipe....rsbhunter

[patience]

I made a 21 foot (one entire stick of pipe) pole mount for 6 Kyocera panels (2 sets of these actually) with 6" schedule 40 pipe. We overdesigned it something awful by adding guy points near the top, just down far enough to clear the panels. Three 1/4" cables, well tensioned, made this thing solid as Gibralter. Cables were installed using cable eyes and clevises, per standard practice, and tensioned with heavy turnbuckles.

The base of the pole has a welded on flange of 1/2" thick steel plate, 18" square with 4 bolts, 5/8" galvanized, set in the concrete footer. The pair of these are in a remote area powering a wireless internet tower, so they had to be trouble free with no one around, and vandal-proof.

The panels are mounted on a factory built Kyocera aluminum frames that are designed to fit the 6" pipe. We have had 60 MPH+ winds since then, but no problems after 4 or 5 years. Note that it took a crane to set these things up. The pipe alone weighed 398 pounds per stick. I used black pipe and plain hot rolled steel for this, so I coated it with zinc "cold galvanize" paint, and with a top coat of clear Krylon. This isn't cheap, but these coatings have held up rust free (except for scratches) over the past 8 years of building assorted antenna mounts for this company.

[rsbhunter]

That is EXACTLY the set up i was looking to do. the size pipe and all, and using the welded 5/8" plate on the bottom, just gives me more height instead of setting 4' of pipe in cement...I understand the concern everyone has as to the sail area, and i don't want thousands of $$$ taking off for parts unknown... but i've also been studying some of the signs here, and even the billboards... some of these are 20-foot long, and 10 feet high, and they have 2 telephone poles for the support system!!! And, after at least 15 years, as long as i've been here, they still stand...And we get wind gusts of up to 60-65 mph. I realize the problems of cleaning off the snow, but if i have cross bars welded on each side at about 15', i can attach a ladder and climb up to use a long handled squeegee to do snow removal. Plus , looking at TNAndy's set up, i've figured a way to make the mount tilt and swivel....all from the ground...Don't want to make this too long, but i REALLY appreciate knowing it has been done successfully...I've also thought of using a system( instead of guy wires) of 4 cable supports like are used on fishing boat outriggers, but don't know if that would work...They attach at the top, go over a cross bar at the middle of the tube, and then are attached at the bottom....when a force tries to bend the top, the force is transfered to the middle and bottom of the pole...??? Anyway, THANKS!!!!!! rsbhunter

[grumble]

I have a neighbor who installed a 2-panel cattle watering station. He paid a professional solar company to install it, complete with one of those fancy sun tracking gizmos. The mount alone cost him, with labor, about $20,000. This was put in about 3/4 of a mile from my place three years ago. Now, every time the wind blows, I can hear the poor guy's panels banging and flopping around. Last time I looked at it, you could see that the mounting post was no longer vertical. Neighborhood gossip says that because of the thing moving and tilting, the solar setup no longer provides enough water for his cattle.

I think he needs to hire patience to drive out to NM and put the panels up properly!

[rsbhunter]

Yeah, sounds like he got tooken!!!!! I've been out just north of Capitan mountain, and there are ranchers there that use the same system, and they are still going strong.....most ranchers i know would hunt that company down and have them make it right....i know i'd be upset if i paid that kind of money.....If you figure the angle that the panels are at, it reduces the amount of "sail" so that a 6" pole should handle it...maybe it is the panel mount system that failed? I'd have a lawyer or a real bad attitude on that company.....rsbhunter

[grumble]

As loose as his system is now, this Spring will probably be the end of it. It isn't going to like our 50-60 MPH winds. The guy lives in Phoenix and only comes out here a couple times a year, and I haven't talked to him about it at all.

I'm with you. After spending that kind of money, I'd want some satisfaction. Ha. Maybe he didn't buy the extended warranty. <G>

[rsbhunter]

Wondering if maybe someone thought they needed the system more than he did, but didn't get it undone before they got scared off....i have heard from other members how much of a theft problem there is with modules and systems......if so, they are lucky they didn't end up hanging over a fence like a "yote"......rsbhunter

[patience]

I can see where my panels will be mounted from the bedroom window. And I know the exact range.... Good luck with stealing them. Oh, yeah. There might be an electric fence wire they notice on the way to get them, too. :D

I think I remember drilling some holes at the top of the pipes on that Kyocera mount for bolts that tie the aluminum mount in place, too. It was a slip fit over the 6" pipe.

I built a Yaw-and-Tilt panel mount for a neighbor, too, but that was quite a job. I would suggest buying the panel mounts from a good supplier. Some aren't very strong, but the name brands seem to be okay: Kyocera, Mitsubishi, etc..

On the billboard signs, I saw where a few of those had been damaged after Hurricane Ike made it to Indiana a few years ago, with 80 to 90 MPH winds. That took out a lot of trees, did roof damage, uprooted one big pole barn that I know of, too. But those 6" pipe solar mounts are still there...

[rsbhunter]

I am starting to look for a length (21') of 6" pipe, but its not something that can be found just anywhere....some of the big steel suppliers show it, but between the cost and shipping, i could be in the $1500.00-3000.00 range....might end up using the 4 telephone pole mount . 2 back ones higher than the front 2 for tilt, But, haven't given up yet on the pipe..i can get 4", 3/8"thick wall pipe local..maybe 4 of those, or 2????? Two pipes approx the width of the array, cross braced and guyed on the front and back????? Any thoughts??? Remember, this is only because of the tree situation... Thanks, rsbhunter

[HuntingHawk]

Check a local well drilling company for large pipe.

Ross

[12vman]

Here's how I have mine mounted..

http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/7917/20090101winter21090006p.jpg

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/8751/20041022paneldone0001.jpg

[rsbhunter]

That is VERY stout....that would definitely work....Being where i am , (S.E. New Mexico) i will check with a couple of oil drilling companies....didn't know how big of pipe they used!!! That would be ideal!!!..Thanks for all the GREAT help...rsbhunter

[rsbhunter]

Here is the reason for wanting the raised mount for the array...
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww272/rsbhunter/IMG_1583.jpg
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww272/rsbhunter/6398atroad.jpg
The pic of the road, my land is the righthand side...can't do anything about the trees on the left side...rsbhunter

[patience]

Looks to me like you are going to need a pretty heavy structure to get panels above all those trees. The problem, being, trees keep getting taller.

[rsbhunter]

Might end up going to the "telephone pole mount" The tree problem is only as bad as what i need to cut down...across the road, theres not much i can do, but if needed i can cut down as many as needed on my 5 acres.....The deal is, like everyone, i want my cake and eat it too! I love the mountains, and the trees...but grid power is NOT an option...unless i come into about $100,000.00 It is approx 5 miles from my property....So it has to be off grid...Worse comes to worse, there is property lower that is mostly sage flats, but it is flat ugly!!! Thanks for the help...rsbhunter

[12vman]

Mine are around 20' off the ground. I have some trees to the S.W. that are ~50' tall. The afternoon sun isn't bothered by those trees until late. (~5 PM during the summer) It really doesn't matter because that's far past the prime time. (2 PM)

The trees are ~300' away from my tower if that helps any.

[rsbhunter]

12vMAN, actually, that helps alot...i just want to make sure that i can have enough winter exposure to not have to run a generator every other day!!!! Just ordered a cheap AA baterry powered clock, am going to wire it to a solar light without a battery in it to use as a sun/hour meter??? If worse comes to worse i'll clear a whole lot of trees. This is to be my retirement place, so if i can't make it work, i'll look for something different as far as land goes....rsbhunter