.45 ACp, .44 Revolver, or 9mm?

[LifeisStrange]

as the name implies, which is better?

1) A .45 Colt M19811

2) A .44 Revolver

3) A 9mm Beretta

[tufhelp]

Love my 1911, under whelmed by the 9mm Glock I got for Lindawoman, and she didn't like it period... scared of it for some reason, so she is back to her S&W Chief's Special 38 snubby. Only plus with the Glock is for inner-city gun fights if at least gives you some volume of fire, but I couldn't call the 9mm "firepower" by any stretch.

[RangerRick]

1911, one hit end of problem.

rick

[Toad_Sticker]

as the name implies, which is better?

1) A .45 Colt M19811

2) A .44 Revolver

3) A 9mm Beretta

absolutly no way to answer until we know what you will be using it for.
TS

[LaunchPad]

Love my 1911, underwhelmed by the 9mm Glock I got for Lindawoman, and she didn't like it period... scared of it for some reason, so she is back to her S&W Chief's Special 38 snubby. Only plus with the Glock is for iner-city gun fights if al least gives you some volume of fire, but I couldn't call the 9mm "firepower" by any stretch.


Willing to sell me the Glock? I am always looking to add to my collection but never shop at a store, if you follow my drift. ;)

I see you are in Southern New Mexico- darn i was just down at White Sands for a military stint too.

[LaunchPad]

as the name implies, which is better?

1) A .45 Colt M19811

2) A .44 Revolver

3) A 9mm Beretta


Drop the Beretta- manufacturer is not going to be supporting the aged line with parts any more hense the reason the military is looking at a change. Even our Air Force guns are used up!

the use for the gun is going to be a big factor- what do you propose? self defense? if so- who is holding the weapon? my wife would be way to small for the 44 in that situation.

Is it all around survival and you would need it for hunting? Well 44 mag has better hunting characteristics but then i would consider 357 becasue it is still very lethal but also opens up another cartridge for the same gun (REALLY look at the MEDUSA revolver)
http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Revolvers/Medusa_Model_47.htm

http://www.theothersideofkim.com/index.php/ggps/4653/

The Medusa is the ultimate for a survival weapon and my wife can carry it. Too bad it is not made anymore!

The generic 9mm will take the lead over the venerable 45 because of capacity and the popularity of rounds. while a lot of folks swear by the 45- it is only a fraction of popularity as the 9mm cartridge. In a SHTF we may have NATO troops on our soil and they won't be carrying one of those rounds!

[jim]

The only reason the 9MM has any general popularity at all is because it's a military round. When that factor ceases, then the 9 is gone for the most part. I predict that the .40 will be popular long after the 9 is just a curiousity.

For me, I'd vote for the 1911, the .44, then the 9 dead last.

jim

[Archangel]

Have all three and I'm with Jim. ;D :) ;D Michael

[DM]

He never said better for what?? How can you guys answer his question without know this??

Also what handgun is the 44 chambered in?? Is it a 44 spl. or mag.??

Anyway, for hunting or if i lived around a lot of big game i'd grab a 44 mag....

DM

[Farmer]

A general question, so a general answer.

The best is the one you shoot best. Go shoot all three. The one you are most comfortable and accurate with is the best - for you. It's more about shot placement than the specific tool.

I prefer my Kimber 1911. It's accurate, it's comfortable for me, it's reliable.

[lostinthewoods]

The best is the one you shoot best. *Go shoot all three. *The one you are most comfortable and accurate with is the best - for you. *It's more about shot placement than the specific tool.



Well spoken! I too have all three and I'm not sure what the use will be either. I would not feel "undergunned" with any of them in a defensive situation.

I do agree that the 45 does indeed have more "stomp" than the 9mm, but 9mm will be readily available in a SHTF situation. However, I was reading somewhere that some of the newer 9mm ammo on the market was producing 92%+ one shot stop probabilities.

Not too bad in my book.

It's not the round it is marksmanship. ;)

lost

[LifeisStrange]

Defensive only. And as far as better, which has better overall "punch"?

[MattK]

Punch !

Hard to beat the 44mag , except with something larger .

If you want a all rounder ...

A 5 inch Ruger Redhawk .. *Load it with specials for social work and , 300Gr Gardner loads for those days in the woods ...

On the other hand :

You di not specify : *House gun - carry gun - how much weight you wish to carry on your belt etc .

*A lot of people tire of carting about a full sized pistol .
A small polymer carry gun is going to be easier to carry .
Cal is un important ..

*Quality ammo and bullet placement are what count ..
Go some where you can rent guns , and shoot the ones you are thinking of buying ...

;)

[Farmer]

From Remington tables:

9mm Luger 158gr JHP = 320 ft lb at the muzzle, 289 at 50 yds

44 Rem Mag 240gr SJHP = 741 ft lb at the muzzle, 623 at 100 yds

45Auto 230gr JHP = 391 ft lb at the muzzle, 355 at 50 yds

[lostone1413]

I carry a XD SC 9mm for my conceal gun. If you read forums were they talk about Force on Force training you will see lots of the people in it end up going to Glock or an XD. They find in a real confrontation getting the safety off isn't as easy as it is shooting paper targets.

As far as different calibers go the one shot kill is a myth. I own four 45acp but I prefer to carry my XD Sc 9mm. Their is no doubt that I can stop any attack with my 9mm that the 45 will stop.

A good forum where the readers are heavy into defensive shooting is http://www.warriortalk.com/
Their you will see the myth of the one shot kill and one caliber is so much better then another blown away. The guy who runs the forum is Gabe Suarez. He is one if not the best instructors their is.

[Clem]

I think you need to consider what the handgun is to be used for. If it is for defense, then the .44 may be too much of a good thing: gun too heavy, recoil too heavy, too powerful, and penetration too high. The .45 has always been considered pretty close to optimum: gun not too heavy, recoil not too heavy, good power, not excessive penetration. The 9mm is often considered inadequate with mil ball, but can work pretty well with good expanding ammo. For many it has advantages over the .44 and .45: lighter weapons, lower recoil, adequate power and effectiveness (with proper ammo).
Left out of this list is the .357 mag. It has pretty good power, with controllable recoil and, with appropriate ammo, a very high level of effectiveness.
The bottom line is, no handgun is optimum for a fight. Use the handgun to fight your way to an appropriate long gun. All the above listed calibers can be effective with proper ammo, but none are miracle workers. Good, center hits are still required.

[hunter63]

A general question, so a general answer.

The best is the one you shoot best. *Go shoot all three. *The one you are most comfortable and accurate with is the best - for you. *It's more about shot placement than the specific tool.

I prefer my Kimber 1911. *It's accurate, it's comfortable for me, it's reliable. *

I agree.
We have a indoor range (hand guns), where you can rent different guns, buy target ammo/targets cheap, shoot.

That way you can try them out and decide that what you like.

BTB, IMO, home defence, 12 ga, 00 buck, 9 .32 cal pellets all at once.

[Badger]

Which is better? The one gun that you can shoot the most consistently with is the best one for you. Good hits with a Beretta 92F are better than misses with a 1911.

[torenghout]

glock 17 if it fits you.
nine mm is the cheapest centerfire too shoot.
it is hotter than 38sp,,it is weather resitant,accurate,light,has rounded corners[no snag and comfortable], and reliable.
you can get 30rnd sticks

[remington]

I have no doubt that a 9mm will kill a man. The problem is how quickly it will do so. There is a difference between killing and stopping. In a "killing", the death can come hours afterwards, and possibly after your death. Stopping involves putting the guy right then and right there. Although there will be some who disagree with me, I think that the 9mm is inadequate for this. If you can shoot one well, however, go for it. For myself though I would go with the 45 A.C.P. because it is more consistant in stopping the guy. I don't care about killing him, but stopping him. For the ultimate in bout however. A shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot, at short range, will tear a person up and they wont be back for more.

[remington]

There is also the question of drugs. If somebody is on alcohol or drugs they don't fell pain, shock, or trauma as much. The more oomph a cartridge has, the fewer shots it's going to take to bring them down.

[Shortstack]

.45 ACP First and then .45 Colt if thats allowed.. ;D
.44 Mag. Second
Don't own a nine and there's not one in my forseeable future...unless some one wants to give me one.. ;)

[Old_John]

Well, for us, DSW & I, you'd have to throw in the .357 magnums.
We have .45acp's, .45 Colts & 9mm's in the house.
But, no .44's Magnums or Specials.

DSW has a 9mm for her daily CCW.
I have a .357 mag. Ruger, for my daily CCW.

I don't feel undergunned.
I like my .45 Colts & .45 acp's.
But, 5 or 6 .145 gr. Silvertips is all the "good medicine",
I need. They'll take care of whatever, I'm thinkin'.
But, suit y'urself........

[wax]

remington- The more oomph a cartridge has, the fewer shots it's going to take to bring them down.

Wax- Although you or I might "ramp up" our stopping power for one reason or another it is important to get away from stopping power in the self defense field.

Hmmm... how can it be said without offending one side or the other?

I haven't met a weapon yet that I can not handle.
Part of that I am sure has to do with my gender, my size, and my upbringing.
I have one firearm that hurts when I fire it... but then again that is one of the reasons I fire it isn't it?!?

But one day I had to pass beyond myself and look at the needs of my wife and our children.
My wife can not fire a .45

Re-read that statement because it is important!

For whatever reason, she can not do it.
Fine... (I said with too much disdain) what can she fire?
And that was where I got a shock.
It turns out that my wife, with a .380 in her hands, is more deadly than I am with a 911.

She pulls it without thinking, and she puts groups out there that put mine to shame without hesitation and without the proper stance or training.
It is second nature to her.
She doesn't wince, nor does she pull, and in a very real way it appears to be just too easy for her!

For some reason, she can not fire a 9mm without flinching.
For some reason she can fire a .380 ACP without thinking.

The fact is that when emptying a clip at fifty yards off-hand my wife is deadlier with her .380 than I am with a .45.
She gets the shots off faster, her groups are tighter, and her reloads are quicker.

I would rather face me than her in the heat of battle because I know how she will react: she will not wait for or expect her bullets to stop anyone or anything; once she decides that a bear or man needs to die she will empty her clip into a body and reload, emptying another.
I would trade one wound from a .45 for 14 wounds from her .380 any day!

BTW: My son can place 100 rounds from a modified Ruger 10/22 in the space of 1/2 a playing card at 85 yards. That is about the size of an ATF goggle.
This ain't Waco 'round here folks!

[Tuckahoe]

Having shot living creatures with a .45 and 9mm I found both to be lacking. The .45 was used on a charging Rottweiler <sp> and the 9mm on a chow gone wild. The Rott soaked up over six rounds of 185gr JHP. All of the shots were head shoulder and chest The chow chow was hit over 10 times from a beretta mix of FMJ and hollowpoints with no exit wounds.
Someone else may have better results but these were mine. I found the .45 is not a death ray that I had always believed it was. The impact does not knock down a 100lb dog so I don't think it would knock down a 200 lb man.
The gun that you shoot best may sound like good advise unless your best shot is with a .22 target pistol and you are traveling in brown bear country. I would say the largest caliber that you shoot well or have the ability to learn to shoot well.

[bigswamp]

I would opt for a .357 mag. Small enough frame to carry well, great stopping power and cheap ammo (.38 spcl) to practice with.

BigSwamp

[RazorBack]

I prefer the .44 Magnum.

Living in the boonies, I don't have to think about defense just against humans. It's not uncommon to see wild hogs, and boar can get mean. I don't trust a 9mm, .45 ACP OR .357 Magnum to stop a hog charge quickly enough.

My S&W M29 fits in the same holster my GP-100 used to go in. Cylinder was tight at first, but it's good now. In length and width, the model 29/629 is identical to the GP-100, so if you can carry a full size .357, you can carry a .44.

I also don't think the .44 is too hard to shoot. I was acutally disappointed the first time I fired it. People told me to expect this huge recoil impulse and to be rocked back. Well, it was loud, but the muzzle didn't rise above shoulder level when fired one hand. But, I am a big guy.

For autoloaders, I like the .45 ACP. For those worried about capacity versus a 9mm or .40, remember there are hi-cap .45s: USP (12 rounds), Para Ordnance (12, 13, 14 rounds), Glock (13 rounds and 25 rounds).

[Eastex]

I think a lot of it will be which pistol feels better, more comfortable to you personally. I like my .45 ACP, but the Desert Eagle 9mm felt so good the first time I held it, that it's my primary. Loaded with hollow points, I'm comfortable with this caliber.

[wax]

Tuck- The gun that you shoot best may sound like good advise unless your best shot is with a .22 target pistol and you are traveling in brown bear country.

Wax- I don't know though...
First of all, no firearm fired by a human hand can "knock down" another human being. Such a thing would be against the laws of nature herself.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
This is a fact that movie makers get confused about all of the time.

In other words, any projectile fired from a handgun which would knock a target off of his feet would also knock the person who fires the projectile off of his feet.
It is simple mathematics.

Then there is a secondary problem of mass verses speed.

My cousin was killed while hunting by one of his brothers who fired a 30-06 without seeing him in the distance.
He died on his mother's kitchen table but he discussed what being shot for him was like: He had no idea.
He thought a branch had caught on the back of his jacket and pulled slightly... but of course that was a supersonic bullet leaving his body.
After being shot, he felt a burning sensation at the exit, as if he had been stung by a hornet.

Stopping power is not an issue.

Facing a Grizzly, I would prefer a .45 or .44 to be sure.
But I believe that putting a dozen .22 caliber bullets between the tip of his nose and the crest of his skull would be just as affective.
We can kid ourselves all we want, but a bullet is a bullet and more bullets placed in a small space can be an irritant at least.

BTW: Bears are scary to be sure, but they die just like a human does. Ask Hinckley if his choice of caliber limited his percentage of kills.
Better yet ask the victims of our recent Virginia Tech debacle if they considered how lucky they were to avoid the 9mm and "only" get shot with the 22.
Fully half of those victims learned that power is not as important as intent.

[remington]

All right. I know I'm going to get bawled out for this but, here goes. For my own personal protection against humans a 40 S&W would be about minimum. I know any gun is better than no gun but I am trying to prepare for every extreme, meaning a drugged up huge hulk of a guy. My personal choice is the Glock Model 20 in 10mm. It carries a 15 rd. clip full of loads comparable to a 41 mag. I also like this for hogs, black bears, cougars etc. When you started talking about bears you got into a subject of my liking. Grizzlies are another matter altogether. I want the biggest gun I can possibly shoot accurately with the biggest bullets for that caliber. A shotgun slug is great for this. .72 cal with a 400 grain slug. For grizzly as well as humans you want a large caliber, heavy slug, at a slower velocity.

[STRIKER]

Hadda throw my dog into this fight.

I just don't get it I guess. The popularity of the 9mm is a myth around here. Everyone and I do mean everyone shoots the .45 in these parts with an occasional .357 popping up now and then. Rightfully so, I NEVER see a 9mm around here. It's just a pop gun IMO.

The .44 mag. is impracticle for self defense carry on so many levels it's laughable.

I'll take the .45 as does most anyone else who wants to stop a conflict quick and get the hell out of a bad situation intact.

An honorable mention goes to the .40s&w.

That's my opinion. There are others.

[333]

peace,

.45 .357 12-16g 7.62 .308 .50

In that order from close quarters to ....your perspective skill and talent ;) ;D

IMHO

333

[DM]

Facing a Grizzly, I would prefer a .45 or .44 to be sure.
But I believe that putting a dozen .22 caliber bullets between the tip of his nose and the crest of his skull would be just as affective.

You are definitely an "armchair" bear hunter!

I lived out there with them and hunted them for 25 years, and i can assure you shooting a brown bear with a 22 the way you described will get you killed before the bear ever dies...

How are you going to get a bear to "pose" for you while your get those dozen shots exactly where you want them??

I'm just wondering how many brown bears you've harvested in your life?? Or even seen, for that matter?

DM

[remington]

Hey DM. The man's entitled to his opinion. Leave him alone. I don't think he was claiming to have shot any. What about the 10mm, 40 S&W, or for grizzlies 454 Casull!

[flatwater]

I have a ruger convertable that shoots a 45 colt, change cylinders and its a 45acp . Much past 50 yards both drop like a rock. Close in the 9 mm will sure to get their attention. The 44 mag isn't fun to practice with unless you undercharge them and I like to practice with the same charge as I exspect to use. Bottem line shoot what you can manage accuratly.
flatwater

[jim]

Change your zero to 3" high at 25 yds, and you'll be surprised at how much "flatter" your pistols shoot. Even a .38Spl. can be usefully zeroed to be only 6" low at 100 yds. .357's can reach 150 yds if the shooter is up to it.
jim

[DM]

Hey DM. The man's entitled to his opinion. Leave him alone. I don't think he was claiming to have shot any.

Anyone who is telling folks that he can bring down a brown bear with his 22 attempting a shot like he suggested, is going to get a responce out of me, as i sure wouldn't want a newbie to actually think it's a good idea...

If he's already done it, i'd like to hear about it!

I lived with and hunted brown bears for 25 years, and i know better... I'll take expierence over BS every time...

DM

[remington]

DM- hyperbole: the process of making a point by exageration

[Tuckahoe]

I had an incident with a Rottwiler (sp) gone bad using an H&K USP .45 loaded with 185 gr HP's. I was not impressed. This dog soaked up the .45 rounds and kept coming.
Anyone who believes that a .45 knocks people off their feet needs to stop watching tv and come back to the real world.
The .45 is a great round if properly loaded with a good bullet. Be sure your round works.

[jim]

Back in early 98" around 0530 hrs, the neighbor's three Pitbulls were in one of our stock pens ganged up on a hog trying to bring it down. By the time I got there, all three were on the sow which was spinning in circles. I was armed with a .38 Spl. loaded with 110 Gr. Winchester Silvertips. I killed all three dogs, hitting one twice, and the others once. I've been sold on ST's ever since.

jim

[Stolen_Moments]

Test firing different calibers into cadavers the wound channels created by handguns that I've seen leave much to be desired. Unless you hit something very vital, or able to shut down the central nevrous system with enough shock, I've a feeling that the person on the receiving end may keep the fight going much to one's dismay.

Shotguns, and large caliber rifles would be the better choice, but make for a more difficult concealed carry.


Besides training, self confident with one's choice of weapon may/could be the defining factor in one's survival in an all out close quarter gunfight.

With the exception of the 357 mag, I wouldn't want a caliber any smaller then something with a 4 in front of it.

[Ericb]

I have carried all three and a few others. *They all have there uses. *I personally carry a Glock 17 of 26 everyday as my CCW. *I do not feel undergunned at all. *The 9mm has plenty of stopping power for any boogeyman I encounter and I shoot it very well. The earlier comment about the .40 passing the 9mm and the 9mm dieing out-you have to remember the 9mm was around 3 years before the .45acp and probably has killed more people worldside than any other round except possibly the 7.62x39.

*I also have a SW 66 .357 that is my primary woods gun if I am not big game hunting. *I carry a Ruger SBH in .44 if deer or elk hunting. *

[George_Bruce]

My answer to the question of which is best is "yes." All three can get the job done, depending on what the job is, exactly.

I think more important than caliber is the quality of the gun, the skill of the shooter and the uses to which the gun is to be put.

[Stinger]

For pistol combat - 45 acp.

For hunting and long range target - 44 magnum.

For backup or concealed carry - 9mm. *;) *

[cubcadet]

A .45, or other round with good terminal ballistics in a reliable auto pistol is good for combat, or in a pinch. For survival, pick a revolver, as it is a true auto, being that just constant squeezing of the trigger will result in a shower of lead, and is very safe for carry purposes if it has a hammer-block safety, so you can have a round in every chamber, and generally, revolvers can be more massive and front-heavy than autos, thereby allowing heavier calibers and powder charges. I think that any handgun, in conjunction with a shotgun with some single or double ought 12 guage in a multiple round mag will do better than any other firearm in certain scenarios, due to the spread. Remember that combat is different than survival. Surprise is different than readiness. Shotguns with single-ought buck are good in the home-it does less damage to interior walls. The situation, and level of skill, however, should determine the choice of arm, not fashion. The person that has only a bolt-action .22 rifle, and knows how to use it, is more effective at self-defense than any well armed guy who is a weekend plinker and showoff.

[FotoTomas]

I believe that every home should a Centerfire rifle, Repeating shotgun, defensive pistol and a .22 rimfire.

The three options presented in the original post would all work well in different circumstances. As for me...I have many calibers at my disposal in handguns. I work as a cop and carry off duty. My duty pistol, training pistol, competition pistol and main off duty pistol is a Beretta 92. A 9mm service pistol that will be in the supply chain for a long time. The 9mm is effective in premium ammo and the Beretta carries a fair amount in its 15 round magazine. The 9mm is inexpensive relatively speaking and a universal caliber available around the world. It is a great choice.

Having said all of that my S&W Model 19 Combat Magnum is the one handgun I will keep if I could only have one and was living on my 5 acres in GA. It has the best combination of power and versatility for my needs, is easily carried concealed or in plain sight, reliable and accurate, the best choice for "me" in a woods/working gun. The .357 Magnum it chambers was not on the list in the OP and I believe that was a mistake.

I might mention that my M1911A1 and S&W 629 Mountain Gun both would have been great options as well as I shoot them all well. There is really no "best" gun. Just a gun that is best for a certain situation only you can decide.

On a side note...I often have carried a small .22 revolver or auto when fishing. I also believe there are some documented cases where fishermen or other backwoods people picking berries were attacked by brown bears and used .22's to succesfully defend themselves. I certainly would NOT select one to be a "Bear Gun" but if it was all I had I would be better armed than someone with nothing. It has worked but is not something to rely on and your chances would be poor. Still...better than just a fishing pole. :)