45 auto good for bears or not

[disleksic]

my wife is terrified of bears and we go four wheelin in bear country alot so she insisted on buying me a springfield 45 auto to take on those rides ;D no argument from me ;D I get a gun out of the deal but Im just wondering if anyone out there has shot a bear with one and how did it work out

[scoutinlife]

Good question I believe it would work in a pinch but I would prefer a 44 mag myself or larger if where talking grizly or a slug gun!!! ;D Besides maybe you could convince the wife you need a bigger gun for bear!!!! ;D ;D Then you get another new toy!! ;) I go into the mountains of WV every year and take a 44 with me! And they have only black bear.

[disleksic]

more guns ;D more funs actually we are usually only in black bear country so a 45 should be plenty dont ya think I should also get some bear spray too I guess but if and when a bear becomes a problem will I regret tryin the spray instead of just shootin I guess only time will tell another question is does anyone know if anyone has been attacked while riding ATV's I wouldnt think so but if so it would be nice to know

[scoutinlife]

I would be perfectly comfortable with a 45 on black bear besides it more of a peace of mind thing. I hope no bears come at you while your on a 4 wheeler ;)If they do go go go the other direction ;D!

[Uncle_Alvah]

Any handgun is inadequate for bear, but, in a pinch, it's better than a knife....... ;)

[disleksic]

Alvah do you speak from experience or opinion. I have no grounds to doubt you only that its seems to me 230 grain slugs designed to spend all of its energy in said target pellting a black bear would do the trick. But then again Im only guessing I have no bear hunting experience. Ill have to call my father in law and ask him he has killed a couple black bears

[Booker]

Hi,

A 60 caliber would do the trick, but the recoil is a pain, check out the video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7279049101024789666

Regards,
Booker

[disleksic]

HOLLY COW cool video Booker yes if you could keep ahold of it Im sure it would do the job wow

[Dan_Kane]

Heck...I take my .40 Sig loaded with a dozen 180gr brass FMJ...

Getting through the hide and skull is key...I wouldn't intentionally go *hunting* with my Sig (I'd choose a .44mag myself), but as a SHTF gun for CQC, it'll do the job. Choose ammo wisely though...

[Uncle_Alvah]

Alvah do you speak from experience or opinion
Well, a bit of both I guess. Years ago I was in Alaska(courtesy USAF) and took everyones advice and bought a handgun for "bear protection", a S&W Model 19. Carried it right up until I saw my first grizzly. Sold it the next day. From that day on, I carried a rifle, PERIOD!
Theres reasons to carry a handgun in bear country, black or griz, no doubt. But they're strictly second-string to a 30-06 or something similar!!!!

[dannanchieftain]

I agree a rifle is the only way to be sure when dealing with a bear. For a back country gun I carry a Taurus Raging Bull .454 Casull. It has been said that this caliber can take bear. Ruger makes a similar gun that they market as a back country type pistol It is called "the Alaskan".

.45 ACP is a great round for what it was designed for (upright two legged dangerous animals) but I feel many are over confident in its abilities I shot a TV screen with one once and it bounced off. If I were to stake my life on a handgun against a bear it would be a 44mag,454 Casull,or 500 S&W.

[remington]

From what I here black bears are easier to drive off than a grizzly. A 45 would probably do fine, but wouldn't a 454 be fun!

[AlchemyAcres]

Black bears?

Yellin' "Boo!" 'ill get rid of 'em....'round here anyways.....and there's lotsa Black bear 'round here.
Most dangerous thing in the woods 'round here are the careless, neophyte, flatlander, trigger-happy, greenhorn, wannabe 'hunters'!...they flock in here from the cities and the 'burbs...more and more every year!! :P
~Martin

[disleksic]

My friends and I try to downplay the threat to her all the time but when she was younger her father was a sheriff in Grand Lake Colorado which as you guessed it was in bear country a young couple was camping in a tent in a campground on the edge of town and a black bear came in that night and started dragging the woman out of her tent. A neighbor camper grabbed a frying pan and started hitting the bear with it well that scared the bear off although it did kill the guy her father had to round up some guys with hounds and go and kill the bear. The only reason they could figure the bear wanting her instead of him was because she was on her period at the time. so now she is terrified of black bears

[Uncle_Alvah]

she was on her period at the time.

Bingo!

[Tuckahoe]

I have never used a .45 against a bear but I have used a .45 H&K USP on an attacking rottweiler<sp>. I was working as a deputy sheriff and got the call of a rott gone wild killing another dog and chasing people. When I arrived he still had a small dog in his mouth. He then turned his attention to me and charged. I hit him in the chest, head and shoulders with six rounds and had to side step his charge to get away from him. Another deputy arrived and fired two shots through the shoulders. The dog ran under the steps of a house laid down and just sat there looking at us. The owner came and took the dog to the vet where he was put down.
Our ammo was 185 gr hollow points. Would I take on an attacking brown bear with a .45 ACP? How can I say no let me count the ways. Better than nothing but far less than I expected. A master hunter/shooter may be served well with the .45 a 45/70 guide gun would be much more comforting.

[flatwater]

The problem with a 45 auto is the penetration. You have to figure it's only coming out at 800 to 900 feet per second and you would only get probably one shot off if one attact you. I hunt black bear with a 480 ruger super redhawk. The two bears I have bagged took two shots each and I had the element of surprise. I load my own bullets with 20 grains of H110 with a 400 grain flatnose lead bullet. It leaves the barrel at 1350 fps. It will almost go right through a big bear. A 44 mag would be a better choice
Flatwater

[RangerRick]

No problem for a black bear, however I took a brown on Kodiak with a .338 mag and it was way too light at the time. A .45 would end badly, no question about it.

Ranger Rick

[AlchemyAcres]

My friends and I try to downplay the threat to her all the time but when she was younger her father was a sheriff in Grand Lake Colorado which as you guessed it was in bear country a young couple was camping in a tent in a campground on the edge of town and a black bear came in that night and started dragging the woman out of her tent the husband grabbed a frying pan and started hitting the bear with it well that just pissed him off so he killed the guy and finished dragging the woman off and ate half of her. her father had to round up some guys with hounds and go and kill the bear. The only reason they could figure the bear wanting her instead of him was because she was on her period at the time. so now she is terrified of black bears

Do you have more specific info on that particular attack? When did it occur? I'm curious.

Deaths caused by Black Bears are EXTREMELY rare....about 25 in the past 100 years.....the worst being in Ontario back in 1978, if I remember right...when a Black Bear killed 3 teens who were fishing....again attacks are VERY rare.....Black bears don't even defend their young the way Grizzlys do......as I said before...morons in the woods are much more of a danger.


~Martin

[AlchemyAcres]

Okay...I found a list....
I only see one in Colorado....August 10th, 1993...that must be it......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America_by_dec ade

~Martin

[Eli80Cal]

I think that bullet choice and shot placement are important factors . As stated above Rifle>handgun and 44>45, but I also remember reading an article where a man shot a bear (brown) with 180 grain hollow points, and they all did exactly what they were designed to do......which was mushroom quickly and not penetrate.

You could also look at a .460 rowland conversion if you only have that gun to carry.
http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/rowland.htm

[feralgun]

Many good points here and some not so good, IMHO. I used to guide in Montana and for a time in Colorado, all in bear country. Sometimes we guided for bear, but usually Elk and Deer. The .45ACP is inadequate for bear unless you get the correct shot placement and luck. Not all handguns are inadequate for bear, there are some designed to be used for hunting or for self defense, or for target shooting. You need to fit the gun and the caliber to what you want it to do in the end. The .45ACP is better than a sharp stick, but if you really want protection from bears that may surprise you I would carry a more potent caliber. I carry a Ruger Bisley in .45 Colt with a handload that spits out a 300gr Hornady XTP at about 1200fps. It has taken bear, elk, cougar, deer without fail. I have used this gun for years. It is very accurate with this loading and I am proficient with it. Also, I am going and hunting, trying to find the bear, I am ready for the encounter. If you are just carrying a sidearm for protection just in case, I would suggest going with a GOOD QUALITY bear spray/pepper spray. I have never seen these fail to turn a bear. I have seen firearms fail to turn one. Also, if you are surprised and the bear is coming at you whether a false charge or not, you do not have to be accurate. The spray puts out a "cone" of the contents that covers a much larger area than that of a single bullet. Bears can move very very fast, you may only have one chance to spray or shoot. The bear has a very sensitive nose, like a dog, they rely on it for information more so than their eyes. The spray goes directly to this sense. Generally, if you make noise while travelling around in bear country, you won't see them, they will leave the area. But remember this, The only thing that is predictable about a bear is that he is unpredictable. No two bears act the same in all situations, some are passive and others more curious. They are wild animals and we need to remember to respect that. Use good common sense. If you are still set on using a firearm for protection while in the woods against bear. The .44mag is good, if you do not reload, the ammo is not that expensive and there are many loadings for it. I would get a Ruger Blackhawk with the short bbl, 4 5/8" for ease of carry. The recoil will be abusive because of the size of the gun, but you can get used to it. Start with light loads and work up to the Hunting loads, and practice, practice, practice. Then shoot some more and get comfortable drawing and shooting the gun accurately. This is a single action, so a short bbl'd Double action might work better, A S&W mod. 29 with a 4" or 6" bbl would work well. The reason for the short bbl is just simply ease of carry in the woods. My hunting guns have 7 1/2" bbl's and I don't mind the larger gun. I hope this helps in your decision, this is just my opinion from alot of experience. Take care and be safe.

[disleksic]

I looked up the actual attack that I was talking about earlier and I had alot of the facts wrong like the bear didnt kill the woman just the guy but it did attack her too I changed it to match the true story more the name of the book is BEAR ATTACKS THEIR CAUSES AND AVOIDANCE by Stephen Herrero the story is on page 95 it happend on july 25 1971

[disleksic]

Alchemy I dont know why that link you posted doesnt show this attack and kill but I can see why you question what I am saying

[DM]

Here's another vote against a 45acp for bear protection.... Like was said, it is better than a sharp stick but i'd rather have something else!! My choise for blk bears would be a shotgun with slugs (waaaaaay before any handgun) and for a handgun make mine a 44 mag. please...

I've hunted and lived around bears (blks and browns) most of my life, and i've harvested many animials with my S&W M-29 44 mag. (includeing moose) But i would not choose a 45acp for bear protection...

DM

[disleksic]

looks like Im gona have to go trade my 45 in for a 44mag and get some bear spray I like that. The other day I was watching court TV and I saw a guy get shot with a 45 in the stomach and he kept on fighting, and lived

[Tuckahoe]

After the dog attack I would never use the .45 against any large vicious animal. Maximum penetration is going to be the best answer it seems in a .44 magnum or larger would be the best Rx

[AARTY]

I wouldn't even consider .45acp for defense from 4leg predators. Sorry, it is a IMHO great manstopper with well constructed ammo, however the .45acp does not produce enough velocity to penetrate far enough into a large animal such as a black bear to effectively dispatch unless you are point blank into the soft palate or ribcage. I would suggest a revolver in AT LEAST .357mag loaded with 158sjwc but more likely something in the .44mag or .41mag line. when I still had my quad on the Oregon coast I would keep my Marlin 1894 in .44mag on the front rifle rack and my .41mag on my hip. Of course I have used my Marlin for black bear taking a 200# bruin at around 35yds broadside. he took one shot and piled up about 75yds from where I first hit him. No coup de gras needed.

[hunter63]

Guess it boils down to the old adage:
You can row across the Atlantic in a 12 ft boat if you want to, but why would you want to?
.44 mag or.50 sw for me.

[panzer426]

Hi,

A 60 caliber would do the trick, but the recoil is a pain, check out the video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7279049101024789666

Regards,
Booker

That big fella needs to learn how to hold a TC Handgun. He was, in effect, holding it one handed.

I'd rather have a 45 auto against a bear than a 22 but then I really wouldn't want to use anything short of a 30-06 rifle against a bear.

[Rancher]

There have been a large number of ber attacks, and fatalities than are shown here and Wikipedia does not show many of them. I personally know of a number in Colorado that happened during the years I was on duty as LEO. The one mentioned earlier, from the brief description, actually happened along the Arkansas River between Salida and Canon City. The bear entered a small camping trailer while the logger wasusing it was sleeping, killed and ate part of the young man. I investigated a bear incident near Carbondale,Colorado where a man was partly eated by a bear. I also investigated a case in the Marble, Colorado Campground involving a bear attack. There was also a bear attack involving a fatal woman and injred males in Rocky Mountain National Park just a few years ago.

A definitive reports, or reports, on the ability of handguns to kill bears can be read if you wish to access the reports of the Forest Companies who have and do hire professional bear hunters to kill bears on forest areas in the Pacific Northwest, to save damage by bears on trees, One of their hunter supervisors, last name Flowers, now retired, along with a number of other of their employees have killed over 100 bears, totaling into the thousands, using mostly handguns of the .357, .44, .45 class. Bullet placement is the key.

[Rancher]

For anyone really interested in this subject you may wish to use Google and call up the information about Ralph Flowers, supervisor for the Lumber Companies who hire bear hunters. You might also, call up the information of one of the men supervised by Flowers, Bernared Paque, who is on record of having killed over 2,300 bears while working for Flowers and the Lumber Companies in Washington State.

[Oblio13]

What's the lightest rifle you'd go bear hunting with? A .308? That has, depending on the load, between 2,600 and 3,000 foot-pounds of energy.

A .45 ACP has between 350 and 500. Contrary to popular belief, that's about the same as a 9mm. It's not the Hammer of Thor that urban legend makes it out as.

[Tuckahoe]

What I thought about the .45 ACP before and what I saw it do were not the same. I know this old guy that swore that a .45 would knock a man off his feet even if you hit him in the hand. Well this old man must have never shot anything but paper with his mighty .45 because the dog I shot just soaked up round after round and the only shot fired that was effective at all was one placed through the shoulders from a direct side angle and that only turned him never knocking him down. We have bunches of black bears here in eastern NC most are hunted with deer rifles .270, 30.06, 7mm mag are the major bear calibers and these do just fine.

[duckidaho]

I carry a .44 special in the woods in black bear and mtn. lion country. I don't know if it would stop a charging black bear (probably not) but it would sure make a loud noise. If I'm hunting bear I do so with a .45-70 lever. I've had many bear encounters over the years in AK and the west, and I've never had a bear try to eat me. Mostly they run away. I HAVE had mountain lions follow me and stalk me and I would have been very happy to have a .44 special on those occasions.

I spend a lot of time in the woods.

[duckidaho]

Ditto on the bear spray. That's what I carried on the North Slope in Alaska. Light, fast, easier to carry than a 10 pound gun.

[nhlivefreeordie]

Hard to understand what people see in a .45, in my opinion they are one of the most over rated calibers ever.
SHort story, back in the 80s my boss and I were going on a trip to Alaska Salmon fishing. We rented a motorhome and cruised around fishing for 2 1/2 weeks. Before we went, we decided to do a little target shooting, he had his trusty, take anything .45 and I had a Desert Eagle in .44mag.
We set up cinder blocks on top off 55 gallon drums, paced off 50 feet. He shot first, and his aim was good, and he took a divit out of the cinder block, a little high and right of center.
I shot next, ....the cinder block disappeared into tiny pieces.
He left his .45 at home, and bought a .44 mag. The best way to go if encountering bears, I don't have the DE any more, but I carry a .40 S&W, and feel somewhat comfortable here with just black bears. Most times these deals come down to bullet placement, shoot a lot, and you should be ok.

[flatwater]

Well lets see now
Cons
You have to wait until said bear is closer
You have to hit said bear in a very criticle spot to stop a big one
Bears can run 40 MPH
Bears don't hold still
It's hard to shoot while your crapping your pants
If the gun jams after first shell is fired
Pros
?

[Grizzy]

Far be it for me to tell hunter men anything about how to kill something... but sometimes a little knowledge can save your bacon as well as a weapon can. It won't hurt the poor Bears either. These are National Park recommendations and can be applied anywhere...

http://www.latimes.com/images/standard/lat_logo_inner.gif (http://www.backwoodshome.com/)http://creativeby1.unicast.com/assets/A191/N3738/M6588/C135207/1x1.gif


http://travel.latimes.com/articles/la-trw-howtoavoidbearencounters1aug01b (http://travel.latimes.com/articles/la-trw-howtoavoidbearencounters1aug01b)
From the Los Angeles Times

TRAVEL TIPS & ADVICE | OUTDOORS & ADVENTURE National park ranger-approved tips for avoiding bear encounters

When in bear country, pack precaution and respect.

By Thomas Curwen and Sam Byker
Los Angeles Times Staff Writers
July 31, 2007

Summer is the high season in U.S. national parks -- and it's also a time when hikers, backpackers and even casual visitors may encounter bears. Glacier (http://travel.latimes.com/articles/la-trw-glacier29jul29) and Yosemite (http://travel.latimes.com/articles/la-trw-yosemite24jun24) national parks are popular destinations where officials are committed to keeping humans and bears separate and safe. Here are some tips from park officials to keep in mind:

Glacier National Park (http://www.nps.gov/glac) in Montana is home to moose, grizzly and black bears, mountain goats, bobcats, mountain lions, coyotes, wolves and red foxes, to name just of few of the many species found in what is sometimes referred to as the Serengeti of North America.

The National Park Service offers simple advice: If you see any creature in the park, keep your distance. It may seem unnecessary to say, but wildlife in the park often has a magnetic charge for visitors. Although rangers know that human curiosity is unavoidable -- witness the many unauthorized bear jams that clog traffic on park roads -- officials would prefer visitors to avoid making that stop.

On the trail, the rule is the same, complicated by the fact that surprise encounters are always possible, and in bear country -- particularly with grizzlies -- this can be a problem. So arm yourself with a few facts.

First, bear attacks are statistically rare (death by bee sting is more common), and most attacks are defensive and not predatory.

Second, the most common causes of bear attacks include approaching or surprising a bear, startling a female with a cub, getting close to a carcass or other food source and hiking off trail or at night.

Here are some tips to keep in mind when in bear country:

• Make noise. An occasional shout ("Aaaa-oooo" works just fine), a loud conversation (try politics), even singing (opera is good) can be a powerful deterrent. Be aware too that around streams or in windy areas, noise is often diminished by the surroundings so you will have to raise the decibels. And bear bells, derisively referred to as dinner bells by park rangers, carry a sweet little sound that simply doesn't compare to a healthy and intermittent aria.

• Although bear spray provides a good defense, you're better off not having to use it at all. But just in case, be sure you read the label and know how to use it.

• Keep children close to you on the trail or on the road.

• Be alert for signs of bears (droppings, digging).

• Don't hike alone or at night.

• Stay on the trail.

• Avoid being near any animal carcasses and other odorous items.

• Don't leave packs, food or beverages unattended.

• Keep your pets back at camp.

• View life from a distance; use binoculars and spotting scopes.

• Pay attention to the posted signs.

Finally, if you spot a bear or a bear charges you:

• Do not run or make sudden movements.

• Group together (to appear "bigger").

• Back away slowly.

• Leave your pack on for added protection

• Talk quietly to the bear (do not shout), and avoid direct eye contact.

If you are attacked, the best strategy is to:

• Drop to the ground.

• Lie flat on your stomach.

• Clasp your hands behind your neck with your elbows planted firmly on the ground; use your toes and elbows to keep the bear from rolling you over.

• Lie still (resistance will only provoke the bear).

-- Thomas Curwen
Source: Center for Wildlife Information. For more information, go to www.centerforwildlifeinformation.org (http://www.centerforwildlifeinformation.org).

[Grizzy]

(remainder of above article)

In Yosemite National Park (http://travel.latimes.com/destinations/lake-tahoe), where there are no grizzlies but plenty of black bears, the problem is "more of a human management issue than a bear management issue," says ranger Adrienne Freeman, who serves on the park's Bear Council.
With an average of 12 to 20 bears in Yosemite Valley and 350 to 500 parkwide at any given time, adds Freeman, "wherever food sources are, bears will be."
Although black bears pose little threat to humans, visitors should take precautions to ensure that interactions are rare.

Here are a few tips:

• Always keep food safe. Proper food storage is required by law in all park campgrounds. Keep all your food in one of the bear lockers provided; backpackers need to bring along a bear-proof canister.

• Don't keep food in your vehicle. Black bears can and will break your windows to get it -- even if it's an empty cooler.

• Guard it. When food is out, it needs to be within arms' reach at all times.

• Know what "food" is. Bears may think anything with a scent is food, from toothpaste and deodorant to empty ice chests. It all needs to be stored properly.

If you see a black bear in the wild:

• Stay away. Maintain a viewing distance of 50 yards, if possible.

• Relax. Black bears are fairly reclusive, and they'll rarely take interest in humans.

• Don't let it approach. If one heads toward you, scare it away (see below).

• Enjoy it. A black bear in the wild is a rare and sought-after sight, says Freeman, and few people are lucky enough to witness it.

If a black bear enters a developed area, like your campsite, you should:

• Scare it. "Yell and scream; bang pots and pans," says Freeman. That will make the bear leave. Also, park rangers hope, enough frightening encounters will give the bear an enduring fear of humans so that it won't come back.
-- Sam Byker

~Grizzy~

[hunter63]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/bearsignscrop.jpg