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grumble
10-30-2012, 02:39 PM
OK, so I'm crass to ask this while people are still hurting from the hurricane.

I've read estimates of recovery costs that are all over the map, from a couple billion to 200 billion +.

If the recovery costs are continued over a number of years, like for the 9-11 attack, the drain from the national coffers will be a budget killer. Even if it turns out to be a shorter term thing, 40% of the money will have to be borrowed. I sure don't see Congress doing anything to reduce those costs to the hard hit areas, sequestration notwithstanding.

Talk about an "October Surprise!" Good chance for Mr Touchy-Feely to make some more friends before the polls close.

cinok
10-30-2012, 02:50 PM
Yep and NJ's Christie has his hand out as far as he can reach. He seems to be an Obama lover now

whitehairedidiot
10-30-2012, 02:52 PM
Grumble,
last night there were a dozen+ campaign ads for Obama, out of our local Norfolk stations. Yeah, Va is a swing state. These all came right from his campaign - not PACs.

Absolutely none aired last night for Romney.
I could venture a guess as to which candidate is truly more sensitive, but I won't here.

A much bigger issue for me -- is the financial toll. And that's going to exist no matter how the election goes. I did see that Wall St. is mostly open for electronic trading - so things aren't at a complete standstill.

There are going to be a lot of different ways this will impact finances; for instance, it'll take a few days to restart the east coast refineries, if they were shut down.

grumble
10-30-2012, 03:38 PM
You bet. You can't flood an electrically powered subway system with salt water and not have some big impacts. And you can't shut down the transportation system to a major financial hub without big consequences, even if just for a couple-three days.

I don't guess I can reasonably blame the mayors and governors of the damaged areas for sticking their hands out and grubbing for as much as they can possibly whine and wheedle from the Feds. It's sort of their job, I suppose, to try to get someone else to pay for their losses.

The big question is, can the rest of us afford it?

Txanne
10-30-2012, 05:34 PM
Yep and NJ's Christie has his hand out as far as he can reach. He seems to be an Obama lover now

You saw that too?

And obummer will use this as FREE ad campiegh money?
SURE HE WILL--and its working.

Txanne

Txanne
10-30-2012, 05:35 PM
You bet. You can't flood an electrically powered subway system with salt water and not have some big impacts. And you can't shut down the transportation system to a major financial hub without big consequences, even if just for a couple-three days.

I don't guess I can reasonably blame the mayors and governors of the damaged areas for sticking their hands out and grubbing for as much as they can possibly whine and wheedle from the Feds. It's sort of their job, I suppose, to try to get someone else to pay for their losses.

The big question is, can the rest of us afford it?

No we cant---people still have blue tarps on roofs here---Femas' little freebes.

I cant see New Yorkers living with tarps ---oh heaven forbid.

Txanne

BonnyLake
10-30-2012, 06:37 PM
We will be paying for the recovery out of both sides of our wallets - the gov't loans are secured by us, and so are the insurance claims and payments in raised premium rates.
.

TSJ
10-30-2012, 08:56 PM
There is no private flood insurance. The federal government has to sponsor it. The effects of a flood are too wide spread for any insurance company to try and cover it. The government does try to recoup the cost through the premiums paid by the homeowners, but some years it is not nearly enough. This leads to criticism of insuring vacation homes on barrier islands, certain rivers, etc.

The flooding of the subway system will be recovered through federal loans and grants AND the state and local government and probably fare increases to the customers. Everybody will suffer just like when the subway terminal was destroyed beneath the World Trade Tower bombing collapse. New York and New Jersey are still fighting over it, IIRC.

Eventually it is going to be so expensive to recover from these catastrophes that they are going to have to start rationing insurance coverage. The state of Florida is already having to form their own insurance association because none of the insurance companies want to have too much coverage in Florida. And that is just for wind and fire damage NOT flooding. It will get that way in New York and New Jersey too if they keep having these 100 year events every few years or so.

whitehairedidiot
10-30-2012, 09:01 PM
Grumble, I can't afford it... can you?

Problem is, the government thinks our money is theirs for the taking -- if the reason is "good enough". I'd rather simply pick a name off a list and mail them the check -- rather than let the amount be decreased through paying some bureaucrats salary and benefits... and upgrade their computer systems... and buy a color printer... and... new curtains for the white house...

Or even - assign me someone to help. But don't give the gov't a chance to decrease my contribution before it gets to them.

BonnyLake
10-30-2012, 09:34 PM
There is no private flood insurance. The federal government has to sponsor it. The effects of a flood are too wide spread for any insurance company to try and cover it.

We have a lot of creeks and rivers here that flood regularly and the flood insurance is very specific on what damages they will cover, which leaves the homeowner's with some unfinished repairs... so they file claims with their house insurers for damages that were indirectly flood related but aren't necessarily caused by the flooding itself. - Like crooked structures, cracked roofs, etc.... good underwriters and inspectors know where to look and deny lots of stuff, so people are left fighting with all of them just to get their 'heavily insured' properties back into livable spaces. Any properties here that are adjacent to water and areas the county wants to reclaim will eventually be condemned do to lack of repairs being made... what a racket!!
.

Rivenoak
10-30-2012, 11:07 PM
Yes, we all will pay. But none of us will pay as much as those living in the areas affected--wherever one choses to live. Weather can devastate anyone anywhere in this country and change a life in seconds--not one area is a safe zone. So, let's add up ALL the help given throughout this country that those who do not receive have to pay for.

TSJ
10-31-2012, 03:43 AM
Yes, we all will pay. But none of us will pay as much as those living in the areas affected--wherever one choses to live. Weather can devastate anyone anywhere in this country and change a life in seconds--not one area is a safe zone. So, let's add up ALL the help given throughout this country that those who do not receive have to pay for.

well, there is federally subsidized CROP and CAT insurance for farmers. Two third of the crops in the US are insured. There are telecommunications subsidies for rural phone service, same for rural electric service co-ops, it just goes on and on. How about elderly nursing homes? 75% that is paid by medicaid. Cell phones for welfare moms so they can apply for jobs and check in on their kids. And how 'bout etc., etc. etc. ad nauseum

BUT, I have the pleasure of not living in a third world country.

whitehairedidiot
10-31-2012, 11:34 AM
BUT, I have the pleasure of not living in a third world country.

Are you sure they haven't redefined that recently and forgot to send us the memo?

Selena
11-02-2012, 01:56 AM
Are you sure they haven't redefined that recently and forgot to send us the memo?

No, those of us in states that pay for the welfare states fully know which states are third world.

TSJ
11-02-2012, 02:11 AM
Here is a link about the rebuilding of the World Trade Center and the subway station that is beneath it. They spent hundreds of millions of dollars on the subway station. That same station is now flooded with salt water from Hurricane Sandy.

"The Truth About the World Trade center"

http://www.esquire.com/print-this/world-trade-center-rebuilding-0912?page=all

Plowpoint
11-02-2012, 08:42 AM
I worked on the sub-way system for the railroad during 2011 and it was pretty bad; the money grab was sickening back then, but I must say too, I am proud that as a railroader, in one of our nations worst times, I was able to use my skills for the greater good of the country.

It is unfortunate however the timing of Sandy. Right now our leader will infuse a lot of time and money into this area and the votes for him will reflect that influx of money; inevitably however, the Government cannot sustain such a thing, and a year from now when those same voters are without aid, they will realize that self-reliance is the only true longevity measure of stability and security.

whitehairedidiot
11-02-2012, 12:52 PM
Plowpoint, that is an excellent point you made -- this "aid" is just a bandaid. A one time "throw money at the problem" solution, isn't a real solution. Just ask the folks in New Orleans.

The amount they can spare right now - or the amount pledged because they don't have it right now - isn't even going to be able to touch the total financial cost - and it's not really possible to predict/estimate it either. Now that the vulnerabilities of the city have been revealed... steps to mitigate damage in the future through building codes, real solutions, and to plan for the next time this - or something worse - happens: that cost isn't on the current expense sheet.

I would like to think - hope is maybe the better word - that people affected by the storm still have enough of their dignity intact to not let their votes be bought. I know, I know... some never had it to begin with. But if we stop expecting people to be better than the average schmuck looking for an opportunity to "get one over"... then who will know that there's another way to be?

TSJ
11-03-2012, 08:17 AM
Just an idle thought but the NY Federal Reserve is located in lower Manhattan three blocks from Wall St. It's gold vaults are 50 ft. below sea level. I wonder how it did with Hurricane Sandy? I know sea water doesn't effect gold bars but electrical alarm systems......

Plowpoint
11-04-2012, 05:12 AM
I've done a lot of work for the US Government and can tell you right now, that Gold will never see a drop of water. They screw up on everything they do, including over-building things. That vault is water-tight, and while it is even doubtful the alarms would even suffer with their backs ups of back ups; since it is an emergency situation with lots of looting going on, I am sure half the Federal Reserve security detail is physically standing in front of the door.

I have no interest in playing out Die Hard 3, but I'll let you borrow a tri-axle dump truck if you want to try you version of it. :-)

Selena
11-04-2012, 07:14 PM
Plowpoint, that is an excellent point you made -- this "aid" is just a bandaid. A one time "throw money at the problem" solution, isn't a real solution. Just ask the folks in New Orleans.


And FL, TX, MS, LA, AL, GA, NC, SC - states that have received disaster money for decades. And yet rebuild in the same places every time. Time to prevent structures from being built/rebuilt on beachfront. I'm surprised FL residents can get homeowners insurance at all.

whitehairedidiot
11-04-2012, 07:42 PM
Ah. Rebuilding doesn't happen when there's not enough of the lot left to build on, here. We have what's known as "unbuildable lots" when the ocean/beach take a house and most of it's lot. The state & towns own most of the beach, itself... as public land. And when the beach is now where your land was... well, sorry Charlie. I could be wrong, but I don't believe that's covered by insurance - only structure & contents.

Then of course, there's a lot of code regarding septic tanks, set-backs, height restrictions (including minimums), etc. which can no longer be met, when most of the "lot" is gone. So, I can tell you as matter of fact, that most of the time, it's not possible to "rebuild oceanfront" in NC.

Of course, in some cases, the houses that were built "one lot back" from the dunes, on the west side of beach road... BECOME oceanfront, through no selfish calculation on the part of the owners.

I s'pose it would also be fair to suggest that people not build in the flood plains of the Mississippi and Ohio (and other rivers)... nor along earthquake fault lines... nor where the snow can get so heavy it collapse roofs... or tornados frequent... or...

Selena
11-05-2012, 02:47 AM
There should not be buildings/buildings allowed in flood plains - nor should developers be allowed to turn others property into flood plains. Can't speak for other states along the Mississippi River but IL has been pretty hard ass about rebuilding - moved a couple of towns to higher ground.
Earthquakes are another issue - much harder to spot and frankly, hurricanes happen far more often than earthquakes.
As to snow - building codes (oh no, "regulation") can prevent a lot of damage. Allowing flat roofs on residential buildings located in the snow belt is asking for trouble. Commercial buildings can be constructed to withstand a lot of snow - too bad if the "flippers" can't throw up a shoddy building. We are all paying for the shoddy construction of the last 10, 15 years.

Septic - when I see a major golf tournament held in a town where residents still have outhouses because heaven forbid tax dollars be collected for infrastructure, I think 'third world state in the US'.

Txanne
11-05-2012, 04:43 PM
There should not be buildings/buildings allowed in flood plains - nor should developers be allowed to turn others property into flood plains. Can't speak for other states along the Mississippi River but IL has been pretty hard ass about rebuilding - moved a couple of towns to higher ground.
Earthquakes are another issue - much harder to spot and frankly, hurricanes happen far more often than earthquakes.
As to snow - building codes (oh no, "regulation") can prevent a lot of damage. Allowing flat roofs on residential buildings located in the snow belt is asking for trouble. Commercial buildings can be constructed to withstand a lot of snow - too bad if the "flippers" can't throw up a shoddy building. We are all paying for the shoddy construction of the last 10, 15 years.

Septic - when I see a major golf tournament held in a town where residents still have outhouses because heaven forbid tax dollars be collected for infrastructure, I think 'third world state in the US'.


Kind of curious Selena---where 'bouts do you live?
be a brave soul and tell us.

You have opinions on where others build etc.
We have to pay for hurricane insurance---flood insurance is separate.

And no--the gooberment didnt rebuild my home-----I received no fema coins---gooberment handouts.

be sure to let me know where ya live--K?

Txanne

MissouriFree
11-05-2012, 06:57 PM
There should not be buildings/buildings allowed in flood plains - nor should developers be allowed to turn others property into flood plains. Can't speak for other states along the Mississippi River but IL has been pretty hard ass about rebuilding - moved a couple of towns to higher ground.
Earthquakes are another issue - much harder to spot and frankly, hurricanes happen far more often than earthquakes.
As to snow - building codes (oh no, "regulation") can prevent a lot of damage. Allowing flat roofs on residential buildings located in the snow belt is asking for trouble. Commercial buildings can be constructed to withstand a lot of snow - too bad if the "flippers" can't throw up a shoddy building. We are all paying for the shoddy construction of the last 10, 15 years.

Septic - when I see a major golf tournament held in a town where residents still have outhouses because heaven forbid tax dollars be collected for infrastructure, I think 'third world state in the US'.

I realy don't care where people build and a govt should have no say in the matter. BUT there should be no flood insurance what so ever from the fed gov.( or any other subsidy or govt insurance program)... i think the word for that is free market.

Selena
11-06-2012, 03:00 AM
Kind of curious Selena---where 'bouts do you live?
be a brave soul and tell us.

You have opinions on where others build etc.
We have to pay for hurricane insurance---flood insurance is separate.

And no--the gooberment didnt rebuild my home-----I received no fema coins---gooberment handouts.

be sure to let me know where ya live--K?

Txanne

IL if you bothered to read the post - relocated towns that got nailed a 2nd time when the MS flooded. Need to address a few local pols who are owned by a developer who caused others to get flooded (city, not Chicago) but said developer may not be able to play the paper game much longer.

You may not have received a FEMA or "handout" as you so call it but your state certainly starts begging for fed money as soon as it can (wildfires are the latest). Yet gov good-hair complains about the federal debt.

FEMA and other government assistance do not exist to repeatedly rebuild/compensate. Hurricanes happen every year. Some areas flood every year, some are 100 year flood plains.

whitehairedidiot
11-06-2012, 11:15 AM
Ah, I get the point Selena.

A few days ago, I posted some numbers from the WSJ about how many "disaster declarations" were made under different presidents. Can't remember which post. I've been sooooo chatty lately - just this side of nutz. But IIRC, since Reagan the disaster declarations have gone up from like 89... to 153, under Obama's first term.

I guess what qualifies as a disaster has "evolved"... just like who is eligible for food stamps.

Bones
11-06-2012, 10:05 PM
Ah, I get the point Selena.

A few days ago, I posted some numbers from the WSJ about how many "disaster declarations" were made under different presidents. Can't remember which post. I've been sooooo chatty lately - just this side of nutz. But IIRC, since Reagan the disaster declarations have gone up from like 89... to 153, under Obama's first term.

I guess what qualifies as a disaster has "evolved"... just like who is eligible for food stamps.

Seems like their have been a few more disasters his first term as well. NOt saying the bar has not been lowered as I have not done the research on each one.

But last couple years have been higher than usual for large bands of tornado's

Selena
11-07-2012, 03:03 AM
And the numbers will continue to increase - be it climate change or weather pattern, problem definition is certain areas of the US are no longer a good place to have structures.

whitehairedidiot
11-07-2012, 09:47 AM
You know DC is waterfront, don't you?

grumble
11-07-2012, 09:56 AM
HA!! I guess you weren't listening back in '08. The Man said he would stop the rise of the oceans. He meant in the Chesapeake, not in NY. Gotta listen closely, very closely. <GGG>

whitehairedidiot
11-07-2012, 11:43 AM
Well, he does have some sort of anti-gravity force field around him that repels this old lady, at least!

Market futures are waaaay down this morning, too.

grumble
11-07-2012, 12:33 PM
Time to watch Treasuries. If they start to fall, grab your boots, it could get deep quickly.

Selena
11-09-2012, 02:44 AM
All I can say is thank-you taxpayers of TX who funded gov good-hair's trip to IA.

TSJ
11-09-2012, 03:39 AM
I think what we paid for is his security team which all make 6 figures from the overtime that they put in. We also probably paid for his security team's road trip expenses, flights, hotels, meals, any mileage plus rental car, etc. It comes with the governor's perks and it is very expensive for a governor that has national ambitions the way the Coyote-Killer does (he killed a curious coyote on one of his morning jogs in Austin. Yup, he carries a gun. Armed and dangerous if not entirely lucid. ).

Mike LI
11-09-2012, 11:43 AM
Guys no worries Ben Burnyankme will just print more money, it's all good.

Txanne
11-09-2012, 10:25 PM
IL if you bothered to read the post - relocated towns that got nailed a 2nd time when the MS flooded. Need to address a few local pols who are owned by a developer who caused others to get flooded (city, not Chicago) but said developer may not be able to play the paper game much longer.

You may not have received a FEMA or "handout" as you so call it but your state certainly starts begging for fed money as soon as it can (wildfires are the latest). Yet gov good-hair complains about the federal debt.

FEMA and other government assistance do not exist to repeatedly rebuild/compensate. Hurricanes happen every year. Some areas flood every year, some are 100 year flood plains.

We begged for nothing--it was noted that We Didnt rec'd any----
You just have a way ----what ever.
you live in Miss.?what is MS
txanne

Txanne
11-09-2012, 10:27 PM
All I can say is thank-you taxpayers of TX who funded gov good-hair's trip to IA.

Why your most welcome dear.
Anyway we can help----baiting and a little flaming keeps the blood flowing huh>

Txanne

Txanne
11-09-2012, 10:31 PM
I realy don't care where people build and a govt should have no say in the matter. BUT there should be no flood insurance what so ever from the fed gov.( or any other subsidy or govt insurance program)... i think the word for that is free market.

And MOF---- I totally agree.
Many here build deep in the woods and then when they cant get insurance they are stunned.
No fire dept no insurance and many times if its a volunteer type firedept--its the same--NO.

Same with building in low lying areas--My area floods---but my RV is paid for and mobile and therefore I dont use flood insurance---wind--storm yes.

I dont know about snow type coverage--never heard it discussed here--certain type of roofs etc??

Txanne

mountain man
11-10-2012, 08:03 AM
Ancient people were smart enough not to build their major cities in the way of hurricanes and floods. The original shore houses were little shacks to get away for the weekend. Somehow we were lulled to sleep and started building million dollar houses in harms way. I would vote for no insurance in these areas. If you can afford to build there you should be able to afford to replace the structure or lose the land. Get the government out of the business of insuring these properties.

Selena
11-11-2012, 02:54 AM
We begged for nothing--it was noted that We Didnt rec'd any----
You just have a way ----what ever.
you live in Miss.?what is MS
txanne

http://dailyhurricane.com/2011/04/rick-perry-asks-federal-government-for-help-on-texas-wildfires.html

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/politics/Perry-White-House-Denies-Disaster-Status-for-Wildfires-121226234.html

Late Tuesday, Gov. Rick Perry criticized the White House after learning that his April 16 request for a federal major disaster declaration and additional help had been rejected.

Top disaster-prone states (http://www.publicintegrity.org/2011/09/29/6801/top-disaster-prone-states)

The list of Top 9 states by number of FEMA disaster designations:


Texas, 75
Oklahoma, 45
California, 24
New Mexico, 13
Arizona, 12
Tennessee, 12
New York, 11
Kansas, 10
Nebraska, 10




Although Texas leads the way in declared disasters during this time period, it lags in total dollars received from FEMA with about $20 million.
The state that received the most money was Kentucky, with about $293 million, most of which came after a severe ice storm in February 2009.

Go back and re-read my post. I don't live in MS.

Selena
11-11-2012, 02:59 AM
Why your most welcome dear.
Anyway we can help----baiting and a little flaming keeps the blood flowing huh>

Txanne

Actually I should have said TX residents who are bearing the brunt of the TX state budget cuts (can't wait for the school lawsuit to come to trial).

My blood flow is fine - the demographics of the US have changed and will continue to change. I have been quite entertained by the denial of this fact.

grumble
11-11-2012, 10:12 AM
I guess we read things differently, Selena. What I've been reading is dissatisfaction with people who are takers, not earners. Nothing to do with racial demographics.

It's getting to the point that half the population is supporting the other half. And, if you assume that some large percentage of the working half are stay-at-home spouses (notice how I avoided saying "women?"), it brings the portion of supporters to more like 1/3 supporting everyone else.

Looking for a minority to advocate for special treatment? Try taxpaying workers; they are the real suffering minority.

Selena
11-13-2012, 03:00 AM
Let's see - I'm supporting veterans (takers, all of them), retirees (takers, all of them), and families like the Duggars ($1K per child tax credit, what a great gig. I should have opted to breed early and often). Or those who live in states that have no issue with the feds funding roads, health care (for the 30+% who have no health insurance), education, disasters etc. while bragging about low/no income taxes. And some even generously have a sales tax on everything one needs to buy.

Depending on the "r" party obstruction re: taxes, I just might be selling investments so I don't pay any taxes on the profit. Easy enough to keep my taxable under $70K despite my gross income.

Problem isn't takers.

grumble
11-13-2012, 01:44 PM
If you carry the description one step further, that's true. The problem isn't the takers, it's the givers. Those who recklessly force earners to give to the takers, and if they don't have enough, they borrow the money so their giving can go on unabated.

I have my biases, just as you have yours. So, I'll blame the d party (to use your coding). But if you force me to be objective, I'll admit the r's really aren't any better, they just choose different recipients.

What can't be avoided is the fact that the Feds just spend too damn much money.

whitehairedidiot
11-13-2012, 04:41 PM
Worse - it's our money they're spending. We're earning it - they take it and spend it like a bunch of teenagers.

grumble
11-13-2012, 05:02 PM
No, teenagers can be disciplined and we can cut their allowances. Wish we could do that with Congress.

Selena
11-14-2012, 02:53 AM
http://www.nationalmemo.com/the-gop-is-the-food-stamp-party/#.UKLvxcDBUnU.email

Bloomberg recently compiled U.S. Department of Agriculture data (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-11-05/republican-heavy-counties-eat-up-most-food-stamp-growth) and found that, “70 percent of counties with the fastest growth in food-stamp aid during the last four years voted for the Republican presidential candidate in 2008.”

And please note that while the southern strategy/gerrymandering = house majority, democratic candidates received more house votes than republicans. Enjoy your brief majority status - Gen Y (aka milleniums) are a larger voting bloc than boomers. And they are not vagina obsessed, homophobic, xenophobic, theophobics. But I do hear (unconfirmed) that some land in the NW territory of Canada might be where the base could go.

whitehairedidiot
11-14-2012, 10:40 AM
Nice attempt at spin.
A relevant piece of data would be:

“70 percent of counties with the fastest growth in food-stamp aid during the last four years voted for the Republican presidential candidate in 2008.”

compared to how those counties voted in 2012.

I'm not sure what you meant by this description of millenials, Selena... but it appears that perhaps you are vulnerable to the different propaganda-spin-marketing message that are out there:

And they are not vagina obsessed, homophobic, xenophobic, theophobics.

There are an awful lot of millenials who've joined various hate groups - both in urban areas and out in the sticks.

Anyway... I'm more not sure how that statement is relevant to the discussion of how the Sandy storm will impact the debt, in any case.

J R Adams
11-14-2012, 12:36 PM
Sounds like Selena and Johnny are drinking out of the same cup.

Selena
11-18-2012, 02:47 AM
Nah, we just live in the reality of the demographics of this country instead of wishing it was the 1950s, which by the way, wasn't that great unless you were a white male.

We'll see if those in the old south wake up and smell the coffee in 2014/2016. If not, will be a hard life for them. With each passing day, they'll be more and more the minority and more and more out of touch with what is happening in the US. CA is on the road to dumping prop 13 in its entirety. And they've dumped enough obstructionists in the state house/senate to start addressing their fiscal problems. Like it or not, CA is the bell weather state.

I see we now have the token woman in the "r" party leadership. Next they'll put a sombrero on the elephant and think they're good. I don't see them changing until it is too late.

And to the TX lovers:

“If Republicans do not do better in the Hispanic community, in a few short years Republicans will no longer be the majority party in our state," he said.
Cruz added that losing a state like Texas, which carried 38 electoral votes (http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/2012/results/texas) in 2012, would hold national implications.
“If that happens, no Republican will ever again win the White House," he said. "New York and California are for the foreseeable future unalterably Democrat. If Texas turns bright blue, the Electoral College math is simple. We won’t be talking about Ohio, we won’t be talking about Florida or Virginia, because it won’t matter. If Texas is bright blue, you can’t get to two-seventy electoral votes. The Republican Party would cease to exist. We would become like the Whig Party."

"We need to make sure that we're not perceived as intolerant," said Ron Kaufman, a veteran Republican strategist who advised Romney's campaign. "The bottom line is we were perceived to be intolerant on some issues. And tone-deaf on others."

I wager money the party stays intolerant and tone deaf. All one has to do is look at what happened after the 2010 election - at the state level, plenty of "we're going to address economic issues" which resulted in mostly tax cuts for the 1% (solution to all problems) and more restrictive laws on reproductive issues that affect females.

Selena
11-18-2012, 02:53 AM
And Duffy's math isn't good -- the millenials aren't going to be paying - once all become of voting age, they are 20 million stronger than the boomers - which we all know will be dying the day here soon. Social security was meant to keep the elderly out of poverty. Not to keep them so comfortable they can pay greens fees and travel through Europe. It'd be a bargain for me to pay $6K into SS and have my federal taxes pay for public education, my roads, EMTs/law enforcement, and universal health care.

TSJ
11-19-2012, 07:00 AM
Nah, we just live in the reality of the demographics of this country instead of wishing it was the 1950s, which by the way, wasn't that great unless you were a white male.

We'll see if those in the old south wake up and smell the coffee in 2014/2016. If not, will be a hard life for them. With each passing day, they'll be more and more the minority and more and more out of touch with what is happening in the US. CA is on the road to dumping prop 13 in its entirety. And they've dumped enough obstructionists in the state house/senate to start addressing their fiscal problems. Like it or not, CA is the bell weather state.

I see we now have the token woman in the "r" party leadership. Next they'll put a sombrero on the elephant and think they're good. I don't see them changing until it is too late.

And to the TX lovers:

“If Republicans do not do better in the Hispanic community, in a few short years Republicans will no longer be the majority party in our state," he said.
Cruz added that losing a state like Texas, which carried 38 electoral votes (http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/2012/results/texas) in 2012, would hold national implications.
“If that happens, no Republican will ever again win the White House," he said. "New York and California are for the foreseeable future unalterably Democrat. If Texas turns bright blue, the Electoral College math is simple. We won’t be talking about Ohio, we won’t be talking about Florida or Virginia, because it won’t matter. If Texas is bright blue, you can’t get to two-seventy electoral votes. The Republican Party would cease to exist. We would become like the Whig Party."

"We need to make sure that we're not perceived as intolerant," said Ron Kaufman, a veteran Republican strategist who advised Romney's campaign. "The bottom line is we were perceived to be intolerant on some issues. And tone-deaf on others."

I wager money the party stays intolerant and tone deaf. All one has to do is look at what happened after the 2010 election - at the state level, plenty of "we're going to address economic issues" which resulted in mostly tax cuts for the 1% (solution to all problems) and more restrictive laws on reproductive issues that affect females.

No, Texas is doubling down on it's conservative reactions to the election. I would point out that in Harris County where I lived the vote was a 50/50 split between Obama and Romney. However that doesn't make any difference at the state legislature. They will follow their conservative ideology unto their death. Eventually the Latino tsunami that is sure to come in Texas will change that situation. I would also point out that the Latinos have problems too so if I live long enough to see this change it won't be without some nervousness on my part.

Selena
11-20-2012, 01:08 AM
Wow, two other members who live in reality (TSJ and Johnny) - what passes for the "r" party will put the sombrero on the elephant (Rubio, just don't look too close at his personal finances and don't ask him too hard questions) and think all is good.