Your alternative to modern firearms?

[mangyhyena]

No, I absolutely do not believe there is anything out there that will match a modern firearm for either hunting or for defense.

That being said, lets pretend for a moment that the gun control nuts finally win the way they have in England and Australia and suddenly it becomes illegal to own a firearm in America. And lets further pretend that you intend to obey that law for some odd-ball reason.

What would you arm yourself with?

My personal choice would be a black powder flintlock, I guess.

Lets go one step farther and say black powder firearms are also illegal. What is your personal choice now? And why?

I'm just curious.

[Rick]

I'd move down the weapons evolutionary ladder to a bow, staff, sword and knife.

(not that the criminals would move down with me)

[Frank]

cross bow!

[shadowwalker]

What makes you think they will stop with modern firearms? They will just go down the list of weapons we can defend ourselves if they can. They would be simply happy if we only had spoons and forks as weapons.

[billy_goat_gruff]

A badge.

If you can't beat them, join them... *:o * ???

[mangyhyena]

I'd go with a crossbow, modified staff that has a hidden sword blade at the end and a few goodies inside the other end, and a knife. (crossbow for longer range shots, staff with blade option for working within the 6 foot range or even to throw as with a spear, and the knife for close work.)

Billy goat gruff had the best answer. lol.

spooning and forking? Thought we were talking weapons. Perhaps that one would fit better in the Lifestyles/Sexuality section. :o ;D (Don't bother calling the admin. I smacked myself already for that one)

[billy_goat_gruff]

Weren't chopsticks the response to outlawing weapons of any sort? I was thinking that eating utensils such as spoons and forks and knives were considered either as weapons, or as something from which weapons could be made under that law...

Modern technology is amazing. If the authorities can see our bodies through clothes (read about the airport escapades elsewhere) then any kind of weapon would have to be hidden in plain sight.

The only true weapon is the mind - anything else is just an inanimate object. A 20 oz bottle of soda pop applied judiciously... a removable computer storage stick on a keychain snugged inside a closed hand... a rolled up magazine...

And since it is an election year, how about a well told lie, or promise without the intention of being kept... * :D

Welcome to the board, mangyhyena. The rest of the gang will tell you that you shouldn't encourage the goat though... *;) * *:D * ;D

[fredusa]

'Gruff is correct, especially re: the big brother thing of seeing you through your walls, your clothes, etc.
So, a rolled up newspaper or magazine, etc. when out in public.
But, the answer I'd give is, also, that of a modified crossbow. The 'bow is easily made with materials we all have access to. Is a middlin' distance weapon when properly used. Is accurate when properly made and used. And if you lose it you can make another for a nominal price!
Now, notice I said a "modified" crossbow. Without going into detail, I have a way (adapted from some of hundreds of years ago) to make the 'bow a "repeater." Now don't get smart, because I've not figured out how to put a "safety" device on it! :D ;)

[jim]

Gravity fed box magazine for Fred, thanks to the Chinese

If they did outlaw weapons, don't you think they'd also make self-defense illegal as has been done in England?

jim

[Tightwad]

What would you arm yourself with?




I travel "armed" everywhere I go and have for years......I must walk
with a simple cane. Yes, a cane CAN be a weapon with very little
training. It's value as a "weapon" has just been reconized by the
TSA board and now only "softer" looking canes will be allowed to
fly.

For all the doubting Thomas's and smart pants.....Read this!!

http://www.canemasters.com/

[jim]

What qualifies as a softer milder cane. Shades of Papa Bush, kinder, gentler canes!

jim

[Tightwad]

What qualifies as a softer milder cane. Shades of Papa Bush, kinder, gentler canes!

jim

Chuckle!! *;D ;D *A "gentler softer" cane is a plain cane that most
folk's carry. There is a "combat" cane that is both intimidating and
lethal in trained hands. The "combat" cane has ridges and points
cut into it at strategic places that make it so deadly.

The thing is that up until recently wood canes were viewed as canes,
some fancy, some plain but canes none the less. A true combat cane
can hide in plain sight always at the ready. TSA just caught on is
all that happened......finally. ::)

P.S. I've carried and used a combat cane,from time to time, for
years and no one saw anything unusual about it. But "I" knew
what it was. ;D ;D

[mangyhyena]

I have a sword cane that I bought just because it was cool. The blade is nothing to write home about in terms of quality, but even the lowest quality blade will win when put against skin any day. ;D
My great grandfather, however, had a walking cane that had both a lighter and a derringer concealed within the cane. It is pretty interesting and the craftsmanship is beautiful. It's still in the family---somewhere with someone. :-/

Unfortunately, if I used one walking down the street I think it would draw suspicion as I'm not disabled in any way and a lot of people know it.

My blade of choice for personal self defense is a push blade, or T-handle blade. I like them because you can fight the way you've been trained to fight without having to alter the way you fight. If you've been taught this way or that to punch, you do exactly the same thing only you do so while clenching the push knife. Yea, I know they're illegal. Would rather be alive to face a jury than carried away dead. (There's a saying for that one but I can't remember what it is) Also, they can be fairly small and easily concealed while remaining effective.
I've been trying to think of a way to take a metal pen and put a cap on it that hinges sideways to form a T-handle so as to have an inconspicuous push weapon that will pass inspection should anyone view it closely. Not sure if I can make it once I figure out what I want but I'm going to try. (suggestions about that would be welcomed)

[Tightwad]

Unfortunately, if I used one walking down the street I think it would draw suspicion as I'm not disabled in any way and a lot of people know it.

Mate, anyone can use a cane/walking stick for whatever reason
they see fit really. I wouldn't worry one second about what "other
people" thought as it's none of their business why you carry a stick.

That's the beauty of cane's / sticks. They have real purpose while
being excellent self defense weapons. True low profile that packs
a punch when needed.

I agree that Black Powder guns might siip below the radar and be
allowed to keep for hunting and property defense. Knives also are
very useful for a huge range of task involved in day to day. (Push
daggers are weapons pure and simple so forget them) Not much
can beat the combination of a good stout 5>6 inch blade and good
strong pocket knife for pure utility. The problem is that today
EVERY AND ALL knives are classed as weapons for everyday carry.
(Damn terrorist & politico's >:( >:( )

[jim]

So are you saying that a plain, smooth, wood cane is ok with TSB?

jim

[Tightwad]

So are you saying that a plain, smooth, wood cane is ok with TSB?

jim

Based on my understanding I'd say yes. However, you're dealing
with a federal agency so all bets are off. I know that I have to have
a cane due to my knee implants to if they try to take my cane
it's gonna get ugly. >:( >:(

[mangyhyena]

Um, what does TSB stand for? I assume they are an agency involved with making laws against weapons.

[tufhelp]

You know all those pesky people at the airports poking in to everybody’s luggage? That is the TSB (Transportation Safety Board), detaining 90 year old ladies and letting young men of Arab decent walk unmolested through to the aircraft boarding area – God forbid they should “profile” anyone and stop the likely contenders, yep that’s them TSB kids. They are responsible for airport and aircraft security as well as a multitude of other departments that have mostly to do with transportation.

[mangyhyena]

Ah, yes I've seen those folks a time or two. Thanks.

[longshot]

bow
atlatl
bola
sling
knives
wieghted scarf
blow gun
a devious mind ;D

ls

[Tightwad]

a devious mind ;D

Yes, by far the most important of all.
;D ;D ;D

[Dan_Kane]

"...(There's a saying for that one but I can't remember what it is)..."

I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six

[flatwater]

When I worked as a corrections officer we had this one officer we called bubba, We were never sure if he was part animal but he would be my weapon of choise. I'm just glad he was a friend of mine.

[traderran]

If the day comes in this country. That they won't my
gun's Then they can have this country. For before
they get my gun's I will leave this place for good.
there are still places out there that don't care what
you have as long as you can pay for it. I am to old and set in my ways to change now.

[edward_4576]

Something I had pointed out in another thread, in Iraq terrorists were being trained and supported. We went in looking for weapons of mass destruction what about all the cells that were trained. The human mind is the most formidable weapon in the world. What's that saying about a thousand throats can be cut at night by a running man or some such.

The Andy Griffith show was about a sheriff that didn't carry a gun, he used rocks that he would throw at you. I have a 6 ft. staff at home along with a fancy walking stick. My wife keeps a Louisville slugger by the door.

An acquaintance of ours had an abusive husband, she finally got tired of him beating her. One night when he passed out she took a cast iron frying pan too him. Broke both his arms and legs. He was nice from then on.

I was looking around tonight and one thread was about home made fire arms.

[captgooch]

I've been trying to think of a way to take a metal pen and put a cap on it that hinges sideways to form a T-handle so as to have an inconspicuous push weapon that will pass inspection should anyone view it closely. Not sure if I can make it once I figure out what I want but I'm going to try. (suggestions about that would be welcomed)

How about something as "innocent" as a screw driver Mangyhyena ?

Check this one out. I have two and they are fantastic as tools. I hadn't thought of them as wee-pons.

http://www.sabertoothtools.com/cart/?product=chromeratchet


The trained "devious" mind is indeed the most effective of all.
In so far as choice of public carry weapons I have a cane [that I don't NEED but would walk with] and for the house a bow with broadheads. The bow and its "ammo" could be replenished as needed right out of the woods and shrubs.
Broadheads are harder but not impossible out of scrap metal, glass shards, knapped stone, ceramic scraps, etc.

My first choice is isolation. If one is "far enough out" AND cleverly camophlaged {the devious mind angle} trouble will have to "work" to find me.
later,

[wy0mn]

The TSA bastards in NJ stole my belt buckle. They said the pin (the part that sticks in the belt holes) was long enough to use as a weapon. Geese...

I like the cane idea, load one with pepper-spray, or pneumatic darts... or just drill into one end & load it with lead. Make a taser or cattleprod even. For that matter make a bangstick like they use on sharks.

[remington]

I could list a lot of homemade weapons but a weapon is what you make it. I would prefer to be holding a gun when attacked but that doesn't always work out. Whatever is on hand will work, always look for 2 weapons when you enter a room. Just a cautionary measure. If they came to take away my guns though, they can take them from my cold, dead hands with lots of shell casings around me.

[kd4hvz]

A potato gun (or variation of one with something like nails for ammo) would be an option.

A Mag-Lite is always close even now and can be used as a non-firearm-weapon.

[macgeoghagen]

Im sure theres a way to sharpen a common house key very carefully so that it still appears to be a key under observation

[cubcadet]

You all know, I have been searching for someone who is famliar with the venerable quarterstaff. Not only can one use a `staff that he already owns, but, when confronted, grab any instrument avalable, even run into a wood lot, grab a piece of downed sapling, and use it with skill, in the same manner as old Little John in the movie,"The Adventures of Robin Hood."

[airmojo]

How about an air-powered rifle ?

There are many high-powered large-caliber pre-charged pneumatic (PCP) air rifles available today. These can be charged via a scuba tank, or high-pressured air compressor (used to fill scuba tanks), or a manual pump (lots of work, but they work!).

These high-powered air rifles will probably be the demise of airguns as we know them today in the USA as the laws are not as restrictive as firearm laws. All it takes is one or two idiots to ruin it.

I'm not into large caliber airguns myself. I do own a Korean Career II 707 carbine in .20 caliber that has a various power settings and a removeable 8 round pellet magazine with a lever action for quick multiple shots. I use a special manual pump to re-fill the rifle's air cyclinder. The pump looks like a bicycle pump on steroids.

Great for plinking and hunting small game, and you could defend yourself if you really had to... I wouldn't advise it though.

Larger calibers are suited for bigger game.

I prefer spring-piston air rifles for recreational shooting... a lot less work, very reliable, and fairly easy to work on if you know what you're doing.

[Theyeti]

I've always been found of edged weapons, and have spent lots of time and money in that area. I even spent a year working for a sword manufacturer that helped flesh out my ealier attempts at edged weapon making.

After getting over the glamour of really large swords of the two handed variety I really find smaller swords (i.e. under 30 total inches) to be prime. Also ancient types of 'war knives' like the sax knife of the Germans and Norse. Very simple and sturdy with a 1000+ year history of popular usage.

The quaterstaff was mentioned and is defintely a handy alternative. I know of acouple of folks in the sword arts community who have a 'bokken' as the handiest self-defense tool for them (one because he doesn't own a gun and the other lives in an area that makes owning one difficult). Both study Japanese sword arts and are really quite skilled with their wooden swords.

The other types of weapons are bows and spears/javelins. Some smaller types of spear can both be used for hand to hand as well as a missile weapon. I own quite a few variations myself and would never part with them as they are too useful.

[ArmySGT.]

How about an air-powered rifle ?

There are many high-powered large-caliber pre-charged pneumatic (PCP) air rifles available today. These can be charged via a scuba tank, or high-pressured air compressor (used to fill scuba tanks), or a manual pump (lots of work, but they work!).

These high-powered air rifles will probably be the demise of airguns as we know them today in the USA as the laws are not as restrictive as firearm laws. All it takes is one or two idiots to ruin it.

I'm not into large caliber airguns myself. I do own a Korean Career II 707 carbine in .20 caliber that has a various power settings and a removeable 8 round pellet magazine with a lever action for quick multiple shots. I use a special manual pump to re-fill the rifle's air cyclinder. The pump looks like a bicycle pump on steroids.

Great for plinking and hunting small game, and you could defend yourself if you really had to... I wouldn't advise it though.

Larger calibers are suited for bigger game.

I prefer spring-piston air rifles for recreational shooting... a lot less work, very reliable, and fairly easy to work on if you know what you're doing.



The OP lives in the UK. So air rifles such as these are likely as regulated as firearms.

[airmojo]

Yeah that sure makes a difference... location location location isn't just about real estate.

It could happen here (USA) or anywhere, so its always best to have a variety of tools, and get them while you can.

You need an FAC in the UK for anything over 12 ft lbs, but you can still get them (with all the hassle and paperwork, etc).





The OP lives in the UK. So air rifles such as these are likely as regulated as firearms.

[stew]

http://www.sabertoothtools.com/cart/?product=chromeratchet


This reminds me of a little 'tool' an old, old friend of mine used to carry, along with a piece of lead filled rubber hose, and a small bottle of washing-up liquid ( he liked 'fairy liquid' [ UK ] ), for washing their eyes ;-D.

The 'tool' was a piece of wood, about 20cm in diameter, and just long enough to fit in your palm with two pointed ends sticking out of the top & bottom of your clenched fist - bit like a sausage with two pointed ends. In one end was fixed a spoiled screw, use your imagination how this could be applied, the other end just pointed for prodding in he shoulder or solar-plexus etc.

He used to run with the Romany Gypsies, they are hard men, and full of tricks.

[edward_4576]

I have an acquaintance who's wife carries a CO2 powered cork remover in her purse. Along the lines of this fancy new gizmo:

http://www.waspknife.com/hunting.php

[airmojo]

Its always best to have device that does NOT look like a weapon, but can easily be used for one, especially in one's vehicle...

My brother has a great tool that he carries in his vehicle... a little garden shovel or spade that has a wood handle about 10-12" long with 5-6" steel spade. *He sharpened the edge of the spade all the way around it, and painted the entire metal spade end flat black.

Its a dandy, and makes a great little shovel too.

[Theyeti]

Something being a weapon or not is based on perception. Once you hit someone with that shovel...it's a weapon. :P

Well then a good piece of hickory, perhaps an axe handle. Love that seen in Pale Rider when Clint 'The Preacher' Eastwood thumps those locals with an axe handle. Seems inocuous to me and very non-threatening.

Oh that officer? Well the one on my old wood axe broke and this is the replacement....why do you ask?