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View Full Version : Another Look at Survival Weapons


Farmer
10-03-2007, 02:44 PM
In recent months I've gone through my preparedness gear several times trying to get my "go bag" down to a manageable size without sacrificing things that I consider important not only to survival but also to comfort while I'm surviving.

As I consider bang sticks to be essential, I find that it's nearly impossible to provide myself with the variety of weaponry I'd like to have and actually be able to carry it all around. A heavy pistol for self-defense. A small caliber rifle for small game. A larger caliber for larger game. A shotgun both for larger game and for self-defense. A semi-automatic rifle for all-out self-defense.

This all presupposes that what I'm trying to achieve is the kit I need when I'm away from home base that will allow me to get back to home base in one piece. All of the above can be had for a "bug-in" scenario.

So in the effort to "streamline" the whole long gun issue, I took into account the following:
1) Most law enforcement professionals are going to have some level of discomfort with a person (me) carrying an AR15 or a Remington 1187 around during an emergency situation.
2) Indeed, many people besides law enforcement would be uncomfortable seeing me stroll down their street armed in that fashion.
3) It's been a long time since I was able to carry around 1/4 of my weight in a backpack. It is likely that I will not be able to in the near future.
4) A .22 is just not enough. Even if it's semi-automatic.
5) Whatever I choose has to be able to be carried unobtrusively.
6) The long gun is mainly for food procurement, not self-defense. I'll have to depend on my wits to stay out of trouble and my 1911 to get me out of any I stumble into.

I started with an AR7. Too small. Switched to a Springfield M6. Very close. .22 Hornet is still a bit small, however, even backed up with the .410. And the trigger configuration made it nearly impossible to be accurate at more than about 25 yards.

I looked at takedown rifles from Rossi, NEF, Thompson and Ruger but all were too big.

Then I took another look at Thompson, and I think I've found my answer.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/KWMcClure/WithScope.jpg

Acting on advice from a friend I managed to get a rifle in .308 caliber that: a)breaks down and can fit into a small backpack; b)uses readily available ammunition; c)can be used with lighter bullets (110 grain) to hunt small game or heavy bullets (180 grain) for big stuff; and d)permits me to have additional barrels in other configurations at home to suit other situations. With two screws and a pin I can change to a shotgun, a long barrel rifle (in calibers from .17HMR to .460), or a muzzleloader.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/KWMcClure/SmallPackage.jpg

This is not to advertise Thompson particularly but rather to pass along an idea that may save you some effort and expense.

This rifle weighs about 6.5 pounds (slightly over 7 with the scope) and packs neatly in a bug out bag. Since it's a single-shot and not a combat weapon, ammunition needs are small. And as I've proven to myself, it's more accurate than it needs to be to put meat on the table. This configuration groups about 3/4" at 100 yards and slightly less than 1.5" at 200.

My whole kit is now less than 40 lbs, and I'm sure there's more I can pare out to get the weight down....

Mac_Muz
10-10-2007, 12:14 PM
You need a Drilling. Usually 3 barrels, two of which are shotgun barrels, but not always. Some are two rifle barrels in different caliburs..

If I had the bux for one it would have a .308 bore and two 12 gauge bores, and liner(s)one taking either .22 lr and .22 WMR and or both. That leaves you out in semi auto mode, but you can't have everything in any one gun...

This is built like an English double shot gun so it will break down. If nothing else see the long gun section here. Then pray to save.... ;D

I just bought a North American Arm's 22 mag conversion with a 1 1/8th barrel.. it has 2 clyinders and I plan to order an extra in .22 WMR mag.

I plan to stick a .25 cal brush in the barrel and have that fit a deer raw hide cord I can twist and make soft with a release clip, so I can wear it around my neck.

That is a back up last ditch gun to my main carry, giving me 2 guns and one no one can notice almost no matter what!

The fact that this little 5 shot revolver has a safe notch cut in the clyinders means I can load all 5 rounds, and carry the gun on a cleaning brush. That string would be the missing element for a fire drill, which I am very good with as a bow drill. We are talking ounces here and not pounds too.

My go to town fer grubb semi is a underfolding AK, not exactly a great concealed weapon but perhaps better than some. I have 2 more to hold down the fort.. Those don't fold. They don't leave this property either.

I have hunting guns in bolt, as I am into one shot one game animal on the table, but I can reload with the flick of the bolt.

I also have black powder rifles and a couple six guns which are game related. No primers in a time of need and no caps might reduce me to my flinters, two smoothies and one little .40 cal I can make castings for as I can the rest, from wheel weights if I can't get good pure lead.

In my SHTF senario of going no where, the flinters come into play more for game than anything else. I might like a bigger bore rifle in BP, but I gotta eat too...

Backwoods_Bob
10-15-2007, 11:56 AM
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/KWMcClure/WithScope.jpg
Yeowch! That thing is a .308??
Just how short is the barrel? Is it even legal?

Sure it looks real short and handy to pack, but I hope you never have to shoot it without hearing protection. can you say muzzle blast! ;D

Hey, I don't mean to give ya a bad time, if it work for you, that's just great.
Does it have a rear sight? It should, if that's ye "bug out gun."
Hate to render the gun useless by smacking the scope on a log.

Have you thought about a good 'ol winchester 30-30?
Longer gun, to be sure, but quite lightweight, and it's a repeater.

Mac_Muz
10-16-2007, 01:54 AM
BB I see a rear site, and if I don't I know it can...

I am not certain I know the minimum barrel length to be legal, but my guess is that barrel is over 18", judging by the scope.

Farmer
10-16-2007, 11:44 AM
:) The barrel is 16.25". Exactly.

There is a peep sight that is part of the scope mount in that picture. Unfortunately, that rig is made for the muzzleloaders and since there's no taper in the ML barrel, the front sight on this barrel is too low to use the peep.

I'm in the process of finding (or modifying) a rear sight that will be mounted "scout" fashion on the barrel ahead of the scope mount. If the scope poops out, the scope and mount will have to come off for me to use the iron sights.

Surprisingly, it isn't as loud as you'd think - unless you're standing off to the side. From straight behind the noise is Not bad. And it's dampened nicely by using .45ACP casings as ear plugs. (or cotton. or real ear plugs.)

I drool over the old Winchester lever actions. One of these days, I'll have enough pennies saved ......

jim
10-30-2007, 04:24 AM
I just keep a .30-30 lever action. Those don't draw too much attention, and are acceptable for now anyways. Plenty of reach and accuracy.

jim

RangerRick
10-30-2007, 04:21 PM
Looks like a fun gun and a good pack weapon but me and a SHTF survival situation - cops and or military will probably be few and far in between guarding banks/city & state buildings/groceries/gas stations/forts/bases/ and God forbid, dignitaries. *My main concern will be bad guys up to no good so if I plan on doing much surviving I'd be doing it with my 1911 and a substantial weapon with considerable firepower, concealed or not.

Rick

Old_John
11-06-2007, 12:29 AM
Well, we live out in the Hills. And have done some CAS
shooting.
So an important part of our gear is a Winchester model
94, in .357 magnum. It's a great 50 to 75 yrd. carbine, for 2 or 4 legged game. And, for light load, small game getters, it handles .38specials well.
Also, importantly, it's the same caliber as our sidearms.
The .357 carbine, 2 Ruger GP100's, for sidearms, and
a Mossberg 12ga. pump, is what DSW & I will be carrying, on the move. DSW can do her part with all the weapons.

But, it's most likely, we'll be hunkered down, right here at home-base, with one or more of our grown kids, backing us up. Much easier defensible.

DM
11-06-2007, 11:37 AM
You need a Drilling. Usually 3 barrels, two of which are shotgun barrels,

I took your advice... even before you gave it... ;D

http://www.fototime.com/3307385D2BCD845/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/290DCFD1D04F451/standard.jpg

DM

Mac_Muz
12-01-2007, 06:20 AM
DM, There ya go again, makin me drool... That bit of advice wasn't pointed at you.... I bet you knew that and had one heck of a grin on yer mug too...

macgeoghagen
03-25-2008, 06:00 AM
Terrain is something to consider when choosing which firearms to carry in a bug out situation. east of the mississippi, where i live, the woods is dense and game animals appear closer. also, agressive humans appear closer. I think i would want my 12 guage pump shotgun with various types of cartridges for both food procurement and self defense.(slugs, 00bk, no.1bk, pepper, flare). for purely self defense i would want either an AR-15 variant or my .45

Peope in western states with less trees and more open fields of fire should invest in a .308 rifle.

knucklehead
04-19-2008, 02:06 PM
I heard leverguns mentioned while I was reading about the Contender as a BOB or survival firearm and I figured I found a home. I have an old picture of a Wild West Guns Buswhacker in 45-70 with a pistol grip, which apparently they do not have on their website anymore. I also found a discussion on The High Road forum about tactical leverguns (http://www.thehighroad.org/printthread.php?s=b13815ef530146f68547a5c20f0d5ee8 &threadid=26437).

The Contender is a great survival or foraging firearm; so far we have only pistol length barrels in 223, 7mm TCU, and 45-410 (the latter is a nice game combo). We are mostly lever and revolver types and are only now looking into self loaders; our philosophy to date has been the fewer moving parts, the less to maintain. The drawback to the lever action is reloading and bullet choice. I have seen an expedient home made speed loader which mimics the shotgun speed loader, which would aid in fast reloading. I have not experimented with making one myself, but it is in the back of my mind. My first thought is that it may work better with 44 cartridges that the longer 30-30.