Defense Firearms.... New member

[Enter_Narne]

Hello,

New member here. Thanks for having me.

I'm a novice when it comes to firearms. I have some experience, but nowhere close to the level I'd like to be at.

I want to start a collection of weapons for defense and shtf scenarios. I'm interested in weapons that can share ammo example: Lever action rifles and revolvers that use .357 Magnum rounds. I'm also interested in weapons that use the most common rounds .22lr, .357 Magnum, 9mm par, .45 ACP. And I'm interested in semi-automatic magazines that can be used in pistols and rifles/carbines.

I have some questions if you all don't mind.

1. Do any of you know of weapons that match these criteria?

2. Some .357 Magnum revolvers can fire .357 Magnum rounds and .38 Special rounds. With moon clips can this revolver fire rimless rounds? And if so what kinds? Are there revolvers that CAN fire rimless rounds with the use of moon clips? My hope is to find a weapon that uses two revolver calibers and one or more rimless rounds.

3. Does anyone here have experience with combo guns? Rifle barrel on top, shotgun barrel on bottom. How many rounds do they hold? Are they semi-auto?

Here are the weapons I'm interested in purchasing.
Ruger 10/22
Sig Trailside Target Pistol or Browning Buckmark Pistol

Marlin Model 1894C chambered for .357 Magnum
Smith & Wesson 686
I'm also looking into the Coonan .357 Magnum Semi-Automatic Pistol Standard Model.

Any thoughts on these weapons?

Thanks

[DM]

Does anyone here have experience with combo guns? Rifle barrel on top, shotgun barrel on bottom. How many rounds do they hold? Are they semi-auto?

I've been hunting with combo's for many years... Some have the shotgun bbl on top and the rifle bbl on the bottom...

Either way, all common or even semi-common combo guns, are a single shot for each bbl., and that's fine with me as anything else would be a tank of a weapon...

DM

[padraic]

Looks like you've done your homework.You've made some pretty good choices in my opinion. The Coonan might be a little hard to find but the rest are good choices.The .357/.38special guns will do anything the rimless rounds will do and you don't have to mess with moon clips that can be lost or bent.

[Enter_Narne]

DM, Thanks for the help with the combo guns. Yeah, they would be pretty heavy if they were semi-auto for both calibers.

padraic, Thanks for the compliment. I've done all the searching I'm going to do on that Coonan. Every example I've found is way above my budget and you need a special loading rod to fill the mags. Too pricey and too complicated. As far as .357 revolvers, I just read that a 357 revolver can also fire commonly available 9mm rimless rounds with the use of moonclips. I want to be able to have a wide selection of ammo for the weapon if I'm forced to buy or trade for ammo in a shtf scenerio.

With that being said, can that Ruger 10/22 fire different forms of .22 rounds?

[Enter_Narne]

I think I might go with the Taurus 627 Total Titanium .357 Revolver. I'm not sure on the price difference between this Taurus and the S&W 686. Anyone know?

[padraic]

Regarding the 10/22 it will fire all of the .22rounds except the .22magnum which is a whole different round.The only thing is that the.22shorts and cb caps will not cycle the bolt because they don't have enough power to push it back or eject the spent shells . The only other .22 caliber shell I know of is the .22 long, but I haven't seen any of those for a long time, the .22 long rifle pretty much made it obsolete.

[DM]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back when the Coonan was conceived, dealers got letters from the company (includeing me) saying IF the dealer sent them a hundred bucks, they would get "in the door" to be a Coonan dealer, and was guarenteed a gun with a ser. number under 1000.

I sent them the hundred and after a LONG wait, they wanted more money, or they would send your hundred back... I stayed in, and sent them more money...

They were using the $$ to finace the production of the NEW guns... Well, finally the gun came and i believe mine was ser. number 222?

Anyway, it was well made and shot very good... BUT, i'm NOT a semi auto pistol fan, so i sold it to a friend. He has shot it a LOT over the years, and he does like it a lot...

As for Ruger 10/22's, i don't like them much because they are like "beached whales".... Waaaaaay too fat in the middle because of that rotary clip!! Yes, i have one, but i really don't prefer it... Most 10/22's "aren't" real accurate either... That's why there's a HUGE aftermarket of accuacy parts for them...

DM

[RangerRick]

The Ruger 10/22 with a 3X9 scope can be counted on to 125 yd head shots (not much knockdown but the head is soft) for those with a bit of skill and there currently is a high quality alumimum 30 round mag that works well and the Ruger 22 bull barrel is both reliable and accurate and I think highly desirable in a shtf environment.

I know of NO dual purpose pistol rounds usable in a long-gun range environment I'd trust with my life. My perference is a 1911 in 45 slam-em-in-the-dirt ACP and a high quality .308/.223 assult rifle with buckets-O-bullets.

Why go to war with inferior tools?

Ranger Rick

[torenghout]

there are several carbines that use glock 18 mags,+ g17,g19,g36? can use them, I looked at getting a sub2000 but I figured my g17 was more reliable ,just as accurate and much smaller.
sw686 or ruger gp100 are great stainless 357's, I had a win lever 357 it was less than satisfactory, lots of bullet drop,you could work up a load that would be much better in the rifle but would make for large flash in a pistol.

I don't care for pistol caliber carbines for the above reasons.

there are two good bargains for rifles still, sks and m44

the sks will outpreform any pistol carbine at range and do it for less $.

you can get an m44 for under $100 and 7.63x54r ammo is $.10/rnd for corosive,You can get brass cases and reload with half a dozen bullets for hunting/practice and save the cheap stuff for teotwawki.

[Southern_Gent]

If you are still interested in lever action carbines, Rossi used to sell some remakes of the 1892 Winchester rifles. These were chambered in .357 magnum (which would also load the .38 special), .44 magnum, and I believe .45 long colt. The rifles weren't that expensive, roughly the $300 range, though that is going back several years.

[torenghout]

www.taurususa.com
has many modles of pump carbines.

[Pitdog]

Rifle over shotgun combos are great really, their capacity is limited to single shot, which is just fine for hunting in a survival scenario. The most useful I think would be the .30-30 over .20 gauge. Anything (virtually) that walks in your path is fair game from doves and squirels to deer and blackbear.
Ruger makes a single six that comes with two cylinders, one for 9mm para and the other for .38/.357. They shoot well enough, but are single action and slow on the reload.
Another good combo would be the Ruger Blackhawk in .45acp/.45 Lc and an NEF survivor, .45LC/.410.
Kel-Tec does a good folding carbine that uses pistol mags and you can order it with a grip designed to use the mags of several popular handgun mags.
Ruger also makes a good carbine in 9 and .40 that uses the magazines of their P-series of handguns in corresponding handguns.
I'm not toally against pistol round firing carbines, but they are not my first choice by any means. despite being able to carry one caliber and one magazine, their limited range is of consequence. Were it for HOME/INSIDE perimeter of yard security against nothing larger or meaner than a criminal intent human, than fine.
I tale my tutledge from the US Army Spec Ops and several members of which are my friends. Carbine in a rifle caliber, most always an M-4 built to suit the operator, and a sidearm, most always a 1911, there again, built to suit the operator.
These two weapons with plenty of ammo and mags can do one man great justice in a hostile environment.
A .22 is invaluable, a 10-22 is a fine choice, reliable as all get out despitethe fact they are often not cleaned properly and abused. Plenty accurate for the homesteader, and will eat a variety of .22 LR ammo, just beware the CCI stinger, the case is a tad longer to hold the extra powder necessary to make the velocity as it is, and the 10-22 chamber is just a hair short to try and retain it's well known accuracy. Prolonged use of Stingers will damage your chamber.
Smith 686, very reliable revolver and aaccurate to boot. User friendly as any, and plenty of HK speedloaders out there for them.
Beware shooting too many 9mm or .38's in any .357 revolver, the fire erosion in the chamber is something to consider when shootingrounds that are shorter than the chamber is reamed for. It will over time wear your cylinder out and make for a costly visit to the gunsmith.
Now and then is fine and under duress in hard times is fine, but don't make a steady habit of it.

[Spikejerk]

I like the .357 rifle/revolver combo. Not only is ammo plentiful, but non-gunners are often less afraid of revolvers and lever actions. These guns say "cowboy" to them and not "lunatic." They will put meat on the table and the wolf away from the door. Another nice thing is that you can constantly top of the magazine by inserting new rounds without having to remove magazines, open the gun, etc. People may jokingly call them Arkansas assault rifles, but the amount of sustained firepower a trained user can put out is nothing to scoff at. Plus, as a someone new to firearms use, both the revolver and lever action have fewer moving parts and are thus less likely to jam or malfunction when compared to their semi-auto counterparts and are easier to fix in a hurry. You can't go wrong with either the Marlin rifle or Smith revolver. Both are quality firearms. They may cost a little more than some others, but it's cheaper to pay a little more up front and have a gun that will last forever, than save a few bucks and get a gun that might not last.

Do they have the firepower of the "evil black assault rifle"? Nope. But if you think your likely to be engaging multiple armed and trained target, your best option is to run anyway. In a SHTF scenario, just having a gun, any gun, will put you ahead of the game. The wolves will have plenty of unarmed sheep to go after first. Hopefully by the time they have to turn towards armed prey, you will have either moved to a safer place, made like minded armed allies, or the situation will have resolved itself.

I like the 10/22 simply because it can be found anywhere. It's reliable and cheap to shoot. It's usually not a tack driver out of the box, but then were you planning on shooting squirrels at 100 yards?

Over under combo rifles: I like the idea and have shot several. The only complaint I have with them is that they all seem too heavy (Except for the Springfield M6) for what you get. I think they make a good cabin gun, that only needs to be used on occasion but I wouldn't want to lug one around in a SHTF scenario. Two shots before reloading just doesn't work for me.

If your looking for a rifle that can put rounds out to a distance, then I'd suggest one of the entry level bolt action options from Remington, Savage, or Mossberg. You can bring down a deer, or those wolves, at a distance and have more rounds ready in the magazine, unlike over/unders. If money is an object, it's still cheaper to buy both a single shot rifle and single shot shotgun from a company like NEF, rather than buy most types of over/under combo guns out there today.

I'm not trying to steer you away from any options. I own and use semi-auto pistols and evil black rifles. But I think what you're looking at is not only a good start. But quite possibly all you will need to help secure your safety and peace of mind. Just remember, owning the gun is only the first step. You need to commit to practice with them, know how to maintain them, and make sure that they are kept safely away from both curious and/or thieving hands.

Just my 2 cents.

[Backwoods_Bob]

I'm not sold on the rifle/handgun combo in the same caliber.
If yer gonna go through the trouble of totin' a rifle, carry a real rifle.
This isn't to say that a .357 or .44 lever gun isn't a usefull and deadly weapon, but heck, you already have that magnum handgun on yer hip.
If that handgun isn't enough, it means yer shooting at something more than 100 yards away, or are shooting at something really big like a bear, or your trying to shoot through a car or something so your gonna need a real rifle!

Seems to me the pistol carbines are popular as a substitute for a pistol. They just don't make much sense as a compainion for a pistol.
It's something someone uses when they can't handle a magnum revolver well, but want a sorta light, sorta handy weapon of reasonable power, or they live somewhere pistols are verboten!
Still can't carry it on yer hip...

As to the .357, it's alright I guess. I do own one.
But anything the .357 can do, the .44 can do much better, be it in a rifle or pistol.
I suppose the one thing the .357 is better for is that it can be had in concealable-size weapons, if that is a consideration. Not that I like snubbie .357s...
I like at least 4" of barrel, thank you.

Don't worry about how many different kinds of ammo you can shove down the throat of your poor gun. *

They will all shoot to different points of aim anyway, so you woun't hit anything!

Worry about learning to use your new tools as best as you can.
Stock up on powder and primers. Buy a single stage press, some dies and a bullet mould or two, and yer all set. Learn to reload, and you shouldn't have to worry much about stuffing the wrong ammo into yer guns.

To keep things as simple as possible, you could use a .357 revolver, ( I'd prefer a 5 1/2 inch single action ) and a lever action marlin in .35 remington.
You can cast yer own slugs, and use one type of bullet in both guns!

Of the weapons you posted about, I'd say the .22 pistol is the most important for a beginning shooter. Putting *5,000 rounds thrrough that will be a start, and teach you many things about pistol shooting.

A good .22 rifle will always put meat on the table, and is very important. Ammo is cheap as it gets for these guns, so go get a pile.

Really ain't nothing wrong with the revolver and lever gun you picked, but tell us what you see yerself doing with these guns? *
You can hunt game with the little marlin, but a 30-30 would be better.

*

[Backwoods_Bob]

This is the way to do it right -
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/images/Products/69L.jpg
This gun comes with two cylinders, one for shooting .357 and .38, the other for shooting 9mm.

This is even better -
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/images/Products/300L.jpg
It shoots .45 Colt, and .45 ACP!

The old .45 Colt will do everything a handgun should, without the noise and recoil of a magnum. It's also a natural to cast bullets for.

You may not like single actions, but there is no stronger or more reliable handgun made than these Rugers. You can pass 'em down for generations.
The rod ejector these guns have don't care one bit if the round has a rim or not, so you don't need half moon clips and all that rot. *