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View Full Version : Will stockpiling of lead be next?


Nickathome
12-18-2013, 08:59 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/18/end-line-for-lead-bullet-regulations-bans-force-switch-to-green-ammo/

I've been reading about this of late. I will admit I have ordered some lead recently from rotometals to insure that I can cast my own muzzleloader ammunition for some time to come. I didnt' do it out of fear but I now think I've made a wise choice considering that others will most likely start hoarding lead if the supply dries up. Seems to me to be the back door gun control scenario. Can't ban the gun so lets get rid of the ammo by driving the price up so high nobody can afford it. .

DavidOH
12-18-2013, 09:16 PM
I can see that coming. Evil doers will stop at nothing within the law or otherwise.

With the price of scrap metal up, the economy as bad as it is and the push for recycling of all kinds, there will be a shortage of that "free" junk laying around.

The price of finished materials and the price of raw materials will rise.

Nickathome
12-18-2013, 09:30 PM
Agree 100%. I paid about $2.25 a lb for the pig of lead I ordered recently. Not sure if that's a good price right now or not, but I guarantee in a year or two it will have been a bargain. So as long as the use of lead based ammo doesn't get outlawed I should be in good shape.

offgridbob
12-18-2013, 11:34 PM
Environmentalist would love lead to go away just like in water fowl hunting. They will find a case where a person got lead poison from part of a bullet from some venison. I think what we will see is lead being illegal in any hunting use. Pure brass round balls just does not do it for me.

Bearfootfarm
12-19-2013, 12:35 AM
I think what we will see is lead being illegal in any hunting use.

California already has those laws in many areas

blackpowderbill
12-20-2013, 05:54 PM
I did a report a few years back and found lead for sporting uses is 3 to 5% of the entire industry.

Prices I've been seeing for good pure market lead have been in the .90c+ range and still under a dollar.
Roto metals offers pre mixed bullet metals shipped for $99.00 an ingot of appx 60lbs weight.

I've been selling lead mixed wheel weights, lino, tin,soft & range scrap for $1.00 to 1.25 per lb.

lino pcs @ $2.00 per pound.

As far as the antis go they will continue to chip away at our life, liberty and happiness any way they can. Antis are like a spoiled brat . Never satisfied and if they can't have or do what we do, they find a way to take it from us just to cause sportsmen pain.

hunter63
12-22-2013, 03:24 PM
.....don no notin' bout no lead (pure/or alloy)..... brass,.... or primers .. powder.

Now fishing sinkers and down riggers are a different story......

MichaelK
12-23-2013, 12:57 PM
Once again, I read about how unprepared you all are. No stocked lead? Who's fault is that?

Guess my dedicated scrounging for lead over the years will be paying off now.

hunter63
12-23-2013, 01:14 PM
Once again, I read about how unprepared you all are. No stocked lead? Who's fault is that?

Guess my dedicated scrounging for lead over the years will be paying off now.

I guess I don't get this either.....unless y'all have had your head up a dark place......Times are getting really bad.

Tell me about stopping at your local tire shop, junk yard, or at least cruise the interweb, and buy a box of bullet every week.
All this lead stuff is mainly BS anyway, unless you shoot a lot of ML or big old slow bullets.

Poured lead doesn't work worth a crap....consistently... in any sort of auto loader, or anything over 2300 fps.

If you are shooting .45 auto, 9mm, .223, 308.....buy bullets......I can walk down my street and collect enough wheel weights to keep banging away for a long time.

TickFarmer
12-23-2013, 06:36 PM
I believe the original post was about lead for casting muzzleloader balls & bullets, however the following may have a few repercussions for all the lead tossers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doe_Run_Company (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doe_Run_Company)

In December, the final primary lead smelter in the United States will close. The lead smelter, located in Herculaneum , Missouri , and owned and operated by the Doe Run Company, has existed in the same location since 1892.

The Herculaneum Smelter is currently the only smelter in the United States which can produce lead bullion from raw lead ore that is mined nearby in Missouri 's extensive lead deposits, giving the smelter its "primary" designation. The lead bullion produced in Herculaneum is then sold to lead product producers, including ammunition manufactures for use in conventional ammunition components such as projectiles, projectile cores, and primers. .

Doe Run made significant efforts to reduce lead emissions from the smelter, but in 2008 the federal Environmental Protection Agency issued new National Ambient Air Quality Standards for lead that were 10 times tighter than the previous standard. Given the new lead air quality standard, Doe Run made the decision to close the Herculaneum smelter.

MissouriFree
12-23-2013, 07:28 PM
Doe Run continues to work in other areas. they provide continuing updates on their operations to us .

http://www.doerun.com/MediaCenter/NewsReleases/Article/2013.aspx

Tim Horton
12-23-2013, 09:47 PM
Here is another small bit of info that may be useful.....

I wonder if they could concentrate there ore ?? For instance in a cold process, kind of like taconite iron ore and ship it to an out of country facility and bring back raw ingots.....
===
http://news.yahoo.com/no-back-door-gun-control-162208729.html

Tod
12-24-2013, 01:11 AM
I bought several hundred pounds of lead for $50 and a bit of labor. Where, you ask? It came from the keel of a sailboat that was getting scrapped.

hunter63
12-24-2013, 12:17 PM
I bought several hundred pounds of lead for $50 and a bit of labor. Where, you ask? It came from the keel of a sailboat that was getting scrapped.

There you go, you just have to get more creative.
Many old, dirty and hard on the environment processes have been banned, and made too costly.
So yes, prices will be up....or imports.

Nickathome
12-24-2013, 02:27 PM
I bought several hundred pounds of lead for $50 and a bit of labor. Where, you ask? It came from the keel of a sailboat that was getting scrapped.

Are you the guy who has the youtube video? I recently watched a video where the man had lead and he mentioned he got it from a sailboat. He also had some medical containers from radioactive medicines.

Tod
12-24-2013, 09:25 PM
Are you the guy who has the youtube video? I recently watched a video where the man had lead and he mentioned he got it from a sailboat. He also had some medical containers from radioactive medicines.

No, that would not be me. :)

MichaelK
12-25-2013, 01:43 PM
There's actually a variety of lead alloys out there and you can simply select which source you use for the particular application you want.

I too use medical isotope containers. The soft lead they are made of is great for swaged jacketed bullets.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/kawalekm/380Autocaseto357bullet.jpg (http://s141.photobucket.com/user/kawalekm/media/380Autocaseto357bullet.jpg.html)

For hard cast, I like to add a pound of lead-free plumbing solder, or a pound of pewter to 19lbs of wheelweights. Hunter is correct that cast doesn't work that well in high velocity autoloaders, but Lyman's 130 grain round nose shoots just fine in my M1 carbine. If you want power in a cast bullet shooter, move up to something like the 45-70, which throws out BIG cast bullets at reasonable velocities.

Getting back to muzzleloaders, look for the flat stick-on wheelweights rather than clip-ons. Those are made of pure lead so they will flatten down against the rim of the wheel.

Lastly, if you really want jacketed bullets to shoot out of your AR, just get a swaging kit that converts 22RF jackets into .224 bullets. Besides .224, I've also made .357", .400", .429" bullets out of 380 Auto, 9mm, and 40S&W case respectively.http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/kawalekm/Swaged22bullet.jpg (http://s141.photobucket.com/user/kawalekm/media/Swaged22bullet.jpg.html)

blackpowderbill
12-27-2013, 09:08 PM
I guess I don't get this either.....unless y'all have had your head up a dark place......Times are getting really bad.

Tell me about stopping at your local tire shop, junk yard, or at least cruise the interweb, and buy a box of bullet every week.
All this lead stuff is mainly BS anyway, unless you shoot a lot of ML or big old slow bullets.

Poured lead doesn't work worth a crap....consistently... in any sort of auto loader, or anything over 2300 fps.

If you are shooting .45 auto, 9mm, .223, 308.....buy bullets......I can walk down my street and collect enough wheel weights to keep banging away for a long time.

2,330 fps is plenty fast for any bullet in a SHTF situation. IN fact, I've killed plenty of game shooting under 2,300 fps and that includes jacketed bullets too. I have a gas checked 150 gr 30 cal boolit that will exceed 2,300 fps in my 06'.

If I was shooting like I was 2 years ago I'd be out scrounging for more lead. Since I'm not I've accessed the situation and have more than enough to out last me.

Nickathome
12-28-2013, 11:17 AM
My shipment of lead arrived the other day. Very pleased with it. I've now got more than enough to keep me in lead round balls for my muzzleloaders for some time to come.

hunter63
12-28-2013, 08:32 PM
2,330 fps is plenty fast for any bullet in a SHTF situation. IN fact, I've killed plenty of game shooting under 2,300 fps and that includes jacketed bullets too. I have a gas checked 150 gr 30 cal boolit that will exceed 2,300 fps in my 06'.

If I was shooting like I was 2 years ago I'd be out scrounging for more lead. Since I'm not I've accessed the situation and have more than enough to out last me.

That wasn't the point.... Fact is a lot of 30 cal. loads at around 2000 fps have done very well.

Was referring to the fact about how a pile of pure lead or wheel weights, is not a cure all for those that prefer .223, .308, "auto loaders"....and the high speed, calibers. .243,.270 300 mag etc.....

doc
12-28-2013, 09:25 PM
.... but in 2008 the federal Environmental Protection Agency issued new National Ambient Air Quality Standards for lead that were 10 times tighter than the previous standard. Given the new lead air quality standard, Doe Run made the decision to close the Herculaneum smelter.

And there's absolutely ZERO scientific evdence that there is either (a) an environmental hazard from ambient levels of lead or (b) that any environemental benefit will accrue from the regulations.

Lead was removed from paint and gasoline 35 yrs ago on the assumption that ambient lead from these sources was causing ghetto kids to score lower on IQ tests than their more affluent peers. IQ scores have not changes even one point since then.

There is no medical evidence that "lead poisoning" can be achieved by exposure to lead except by direct ingestion of large amounts of contaminated dirt, leaded gasoline, etc over a long period of time. Casual exposrue to ambient environenntal lead won't do it, and the "acceptable levels" are entirely arbitrary.

How many of you or your acquaintences have been walking around with old slugs from GSWs never removed from 30 or 40 yrs ago with no discernable ill effects?

Liberals love to create imaginary "problems" which only their regulations can "solve." It's all about control.

randallhilton
12-29-2013, 01:33 AM
If you are shooting .45 auto, 9mm, .223, 308.....buy bullets......I can walk down my street and collect enough wheel weights to keep banging away for a long time.

Well put. If I spent time building bullets I wouldn't have much time for the range anyway. I envy those of you who can do that sort of craft. I would probably find myself waking up with gunpowder on my face and drool in my gunpowder. :lol:

Nickathome
12-30-2013, 01:22 PM
And there's absolutely ZERO scientific evdence that there is either (a) an environmental hazard from ambient levels of lead or (b) that any environemental benefit will accrue from the regulations.

Lead was removed from paint and gasoline 35 yrs ago on the assumption that ambient lead from these sources was causing ghetto kids to score lower on IQ tests than their more affluent peers. IQ scores have not changes even one point since then.

There is no medical evidence that "lead poisoning" can be achieved by exposure to lead except by direct ingestion of large amounts of contaminated dirt, leaded gasoline, etc over a long period of time. Casual exposrue to ambient environenntal lead won't do it, and the "acceptable levels" are entirely arbitrary.

How many of you or your acquaintences have been walking around with old slugs from GSWs never removed from 30 or 40 yrs ago with no discernable ill effects?

Liberals love to create imaginary "problems" which only their regulations can "solve." It's all about control.

Well there is one point where you are incorrect. Aviation fuel (aka av gas or 100LL) still contains lead. There has been a movement afoot to discontinue avgas usage. The Epa or whomever is suggesting that general aviation is the biggest air polluter when it comes to airborne lead contaminants. This is total BS and just another move by the liberals to ban something that there is no real proof that is causing damage.

MichaelK
01-01-2014, 01:30 PM
And there's absolutely ZERO scientific evdence that there is either (a) an environmental hazard from ambient levels of lead or (b) that any environemental benefit will accrue from the regulations.


Back in the early 80's I worked for the forestery industry and ended up near Wallace, Idaho; the site of one of America's last lead smelters. I have to say that most nuclear waste dumps looked more attractive than that place. The environmental effects of the lead fumes were clear for everyone to see. Whole hillsides of vegetation stunted or killed off completely, and lot of cull people running around.

blackpowderbill
01-01-2014, 04:19 PM
Getto kids ,, babies teething were chewing on window sills painted with paint that may have contained lead oxides.
Many of the lead based paints were designed for painting metal...due to the low price many people purchased this type of paint and used it on wood as it also helped prevented mold and rot.

I'd expect any smelter to have stunted vegetation surrounding the plant. I grew up in Pittsburg/Wheeling area and trust me when I say their were a lot of stunted life forms.

Remember when Lake Erie caught on fire? Standard oil use to let naphtha and gasoline run off as a waste by-product of kerosene.

sethwyo
01-04-2014, 12:46 AM
mentaly sick people want to get rid of the guns. attacking lead manufacturing is one way they have.

storing up lead and jacketed bullets/powder/primers ~ factory ammo now is ok, but rember, it can all be destroyed or stoled as my own stores have been several time in my life. hide it well if you want to keep it.

home cast slugs work great in the 9mm, 40cal, 10mm, and .45 for semiautomantic pistoles and carbines, also the 38 spl, .357 mag, and the .44 mag revolvers. the .30 m1 carbine loves to gobble up home cast reloads too.

i really enjoy turning dirty old lead into shiny clean ingots, then into bullets, then into cartridges, it dosnt take a lot of time and it is really rewarding.

the winchester rifles and carbines in the 357mag, .44 mag and 30-30 can do a lot with home cast rounds,

a 300 grain bullet going 1,600 fps is nothing to mock.

we are at that time, as has been stated already, when you should already have your store bought and packed away.

for several years now, the lead wheel weights from the tire shops have been phased out with steal weights.

i have nowen a few people who built a stamp machine to make jacketed bullets from copper pennys, soon these ~copper pennys~ will be gone also

whitehairedidiot
01-04-2014, 12:09 PM
Blackpowerbill... that was the Cayahouga River; about 1/2 hour north of where I lived. That was Ralph Nader's heyday, too... because of all the Corvair accidents.

But what the enviromeddlists just will never see (because they don't want to) is that in those 40 odd years, businesses of all kinds have worked hard and spent their fair share of money to clean up the worst of their environmental sins. What's being pushed now -- are standards so high, that not even a family farm could exist under them, we'd have to compete for nuts and berries with the wildlife.

doc
01-06-2014, 07:49 PM
Getto kids ,, babies teething were chewing on window sills painted with paint that may have contained lead oxides.
Many of the lead based paints were designed for painting metal...due to the low price many people purchased this type of paint and used it on wood as it also helped prevented mold and rot.

I'd expect any smelter to have stunted vegetation surrounding the plant. I grew up in Pittsburg/Wheeling area and trust me when I say their were a lot of stunted life forms.

Remember when Lake Erie caught on fire? Standard oil use to let naphtha and gasoline run off as a waste by-product of kerosene.

a] That's the whole point: eliminating lead from paint didn't help the IQ scores.

b] There's a difference of local effects within a few dozen yds of a smelter vs. the diluted Pb levels farther away (levels dilute by the inverse cube law: 100 ft away levels are only 1/ one millionth of the level 10ft away)

c] There's a difference between reasonable regulation vs the current EPA's unscientific quest for power. Law of diminshing returns. How clean is clean enough?

Nickathome
01-08-2014, 01:52 PM
They're using pollution as a method to close down firing ranges as well. I know more than one rifle range here that closed because they couldn't afford the forced lead remediation by the feds. I'm surprised game commission owned ranges remained open. I see the day when all the ranges will go under or will be under such scrutiny from the environmental agencies, that it won't be worth it to belong to one. I can see it now, a sign on the wall "all users must dig up and discard each bullet fired into the provided environmentally friendly blue receptacles, located at the exit". All the while an official who counted your ammunition on the way in is now counting the amount of bullets you claimed to have fired. One check of the surveillance files will tell them if you are lying or not.

LostintheOzone
02-13-2014, 09:24 PM
I didn't see any mention of building up a supply of lead shot. That really is the only way to load a shotgun shell as far as I'm concerned. There are other types of shot but none of it is as good as lead, if it is it costs about 3 times as much.

When people talk about subsistence hunting they usually forget about birds and rabbits. That's a big mistake because those are easier to put in the pot than four legged game in some places.

I load some lead for my 45's and 357 but I don't cast anything, I just stockpile bullets. Takes up less space and no fumes. I bought lots of shot back when it was <$1/lb because everyone said it was going to get expensive. I used to shoot trap and when I needed a bag I bought 2 and squirreled one away. I have 150 lbs of it in my basement contained.

So stocking lead is probably a good idea if you cast. If you don't stocking bullets and shot is just as good. I'm sure a lot of people are buying more than they use like me.

Michael32170
02-28-2014, 04:41 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/18/end-line-for-lead-bullet-regulations-bans-force-switch-to-green-ammo/

I've been reading about this of late. I will admit I have ordered some lead recently from rotometals to insure that I can cast my own muzzleloader ammunition for some time to come. I didnt' do it out of fear but I now think I've made a wise choice considering that others will most likely start hoarding lead if the supply dries up. Seems to me to be the back door gun control scenario. Can't ban the gun so lets get rid of the ammo by driving the price up so high nobody can afford it. .

There is a possibility that collecting lead will be more profitable then buying and saving gold.

blackpowderbill
03-02-2014, 01:44 PM
I use to shoot thousands of clay targets every year. I stlll have close to a 1,000 lbs here. It does not take much shot to down a bird or rabbit. My go to SG is a 410 1100. 1/2 oz of shot in 6's 5's or 4's one pellet hits is all it takes.

AlaskanGuy
08-04-2014, 01:03 PM
I mine for lead at our little range... I am the only one that does in my area.... I use a rocker box thing and just throw a couple big shovels in and then rock away till it is nothing but bullets and other large pebbles... Then pick the bullets out.....

Mark
AlaskanGuy

Kachad
08-06-2014, 04:04 AM
I mine for lead at our little range... I am the only one that does in my area.... I use a rocker box thing and just throw a couple big shovels in and then rock away till it is nothing but bullets and other large pebbles... Then pick the bullets out.....

Mark
AlaskanGuy

Reminds me of the time when I was shaking screens for archaeological evidence.

Reminds me, I need to start to get some molds for my .30 and .35 cal rifles.

AlaskanGuy
08-12-2014, 01:51 PM
When I mined this spring after breakup, I mined about 260 lbs and smelted them right into ingots at the range with my portable smelting setup.... It works great, and that is way more then I will use this year... It is easy to store lead ingots that have been already fluxed and cleaned... Just drop in the lee pot and bullets just pop out... :)