Do animals have rights?

[Vinland]

Yep, me again. Just wondering what you all thought of the topic on animal rights. I'll give my opinion and would appreciate a response. Reguardless of your religious upbringing or stance on the issue...do THEY have rights? Many of you know I am a vegan, but I tell you what..I honestly respect more of you than not...because you raise your own, care for your own and create a lifestyle for your livestock that many corporate places just dont do for their animals. Those animals to them are playing chips in a card game called profit. I became vegan from the sole fact of those corporate upbringings stomaches of the supermarket shoper. I have a change of heart after being here for a few months.
No, I wont eat meat, but I also appreciate the fact that many of you can raise, kill, and eat in a natural environment of the animal as not to stress it out in a small cage that limits its life quality. As I said, its not my cup of tea...but as someone such as myself who is as put by others' a Hippy 30 years too late' I thank you for being ecofriendly. So...Do animals have rights? Or is an animals rights basically the right to be treated fairly while it exists on this earth? :)

[SubVetChief]

Every year for the past 13 years we have raised beefer cows and pigs for our own consumption. These animals are Vet-checked every 5-6 months and given all the needed innoculations. The cows are free-ranged in pastures of rye grass and alfalfa plus a daily supplement of grain and vitamins. The pigs are kept in a fairly large shaded enclosure with fresh water and all the pig feed they can eat anytime during the day.

In addition we have many Registered Appaloosa's which are just spoiled rotten.We use them for trail rides all over our farm and loan them out to 4H kids for Horse Shows all over the State.

Bottom line: Whether they are for food or pleasure all of our animals are well treated,not abused in any manner,and well protected from weather,disease,and 2-legged dolts who do not have the sense the good Lord gave to a goose. That is the right which we bestow upon them because it is simply the right thing to do.

[nancy1340]

SubVetChief & Mark and Nicole just about covered it I think.

That's a YES btw.

[doubleeagle]

I believe that animals have rights, but that they are subservient to human rights. (Otherwise, I could not eat them.)

I believe that they have the right to be treated humanely, meaning good food, good housing, etc. If an animal is to be used for food, then it should be brought to its end as expeditiously as is possible. It should not suffer. If an animal is a draft animal, then, as the Bible says, not to "muzzle the ox, that treads out the corn."

I believe that an animal that is mistreated, either by withholding food or being beaten or being confined in too small an enclosure is wrong.

Period. End of story.

Does that help?

Steve

PS Both my daughter and I tried to be vegetarians at different times, but gave it up 'cause we lke meat. But, I do admire you though.

[ZOOBEAR]

Rights are an idea not a thing in the animal kingdom. Does the bear have a right to eat you if he is hungry? Yes, because the only rights you get in the real world are the ones given to you from those higher on the food chain.

[JAK]

I think all creatures, all of creation, deserves respect. That doesn't mean you treat a rock like a tree, or a tree like a squirrel, or a squirrel like a human being, but you have to treat them all with respect as God's creatures, just as yourself. In essence I think the golden rule applies to animals, and all creatures, with the caveat, "if you were that squirrel", or "if you were that tree", or "if you were that lake", or that rock face, or even that Kwh I suppose.


Canticle of the Sun
- Brother Francis of Assisi

O most high, almighty, good Lord God, to thee belong praise, glory, honour, and all blessing! *

Praised be my Lord God with all his creatures, and specially our brother the sun, who brings us the day and who brings us the light; fair is he and shines with a very great spendor: O Lord, he signifies to us thee! *

Praised be my Lord for our sister the moon, and for the stars, the which he has set clear and lovely in heaven. *

Praised be my Lord for our brother the wind, and for air and cloud, calms and all weather by the which thou upholdest life in all creatures. *

Praised be my Lord for our sister water, who is very serviceable unto us and humble and precious and clean. *

Praised by my Lord for our brother fire, through whom thou givest us light in the darkness; and he is bright and pleasant and very mighty and strong. *

Praised by my Lord for our mother the earth, the which doth sustain us and keep us, and bringeth forth divers fruits and flowers of many colors, and grass. *

Praised be my Lord for all those who pardon one another for his love's sake, and who endure weakness and tribulation; blessed are they who peaceably shall endure, for thou, O most Highest, shalt give them a crown. *

Praised be my Lord for our sister, the death of the body, from which no man escapeth. Woe to him who dieth in mortal sin! Blessed are they who are found walking by thy most holy will, for the second death shall have no power to do them harm.

Praise ye and bless the Lord, and give thanks unto him and serve him with great humility.

[DBackFan]

Thanks for sharing that prayer jak :)

[Toad_Sticker]

they have the right to be............
Fried
Broiled
Baked
tartared
Roasted
Saute'd
Boiled
Jerked
or otherwise prepared for eatin' ;D
TS

[outsideman1]

they have the right in my eyes to be treated with respect from the time i feed them until the time they feed me . ;D

[leera]

I too tried to become vegan at one point.

But I just plain like steak too much...........

I have respect for all living things,and being living beings they should be treated as I would want to be treated.(expect for pesky insects that bite me)

This does not mean that a steer has the right to vote,but that a steer deserves to be treated in the manner that keeps the steer healthy and happy until such time as it is going to be butchered,then the end should be swift and without stress or suffering.

I do not think that animals were meant to be kept in small pens/cages and force fed unnatural foods and anitbiotics to make them grow faster and increase production.Were cows meant to eat other ground up cows?NO.So why put it in their food?

I try to buy only from local farmers,where I KNOW what did or did not get fed to the animal.I am having a harder time with that now that the only local meat processor went belly up.

Just my two cents,but basically I have the same thoughts/opinions as has already been posted.

[lewis56us]

I agree with what the others have said about treating your animals well, if for no other reason than that they will serve you better if you do. Pets are more enjoyable if they're happy, meat tastes better if the animal was healthy and not stressed, etc.
However, I do not believe that a human should be punished severly for mistreating an animal. Maybe a stiff fine, and certainly take the animal away from the offender, but that's it. People should not be imprisoned for cruelty or mistreatment of animals.
Do animals have rights? No. Privileges, yes.

[MNMOM]

Lewis,
I have to differ with you, I do think that people should be treated harshly for animal cruelty, I think that being cruel to animals is a crime. Why would you think it was okay to be cruel to animals?

[leera]

By cruelty do you mean:

Intentionally letting an animal suffer in pain?
Knowingly let a pet starve on the end of a chain?
Ligting a cat on fire?

There is a difference between curelty and ignorance.

I do not think that people should be punished for being ignorant and not knowing how to properly care for an animal.I think they should be educated.

But I DO think that those who know and intentionally mame/torture/cause needless suffering should be punished.

No animals do not have rights persay........but they do deserve to be treated fairly and humanely.It takes no more effort and thought to keep an animal healthy and happy than it does to put a dog out on a chain in the yard and watch it starve as you walk by it everyday.

[Suzy]

I believe that any individual who knowingly harms an animal cruelly, or who withholds food or water, should be punished to the full extent of the law, and that includes jail time if the abuse was bad...

I think the huge agribusiness farms who treat animals as simple money-making things will be held accountable in the after life for the cruel way they raise and treat animals.

I think small farmers who raise their animals humanely are the ones who do it right...

I was a complete vegetarian for more than five years and although I sometimes eat meat now, more than often I do not...but it's simply because I love my animals so. Every animal on my farm is spoiled royally.

[wvpeach1963]

Mark and Nicole said it well here.

I saw a video on agri business recently, where they showed a cow who had apparently broken a leg in transport to the slaughter house. The cow could not get up when the rest of the cows were hearded into the pen so they threw a rope around it and dragged it out on the parking lot, where the video went on to say it stayed in the hot sun with no water for over five hours before they drug it off to slaughter.

Broke my heart, to see it treated so inhumanely.

I am not currently eating meat. Hubby says he'll never let me watch a video like that again as its messing up his dinners.

I believe I will eat wild game . But feel a responsibilty to not help contribute finacially to the big agri business's mistreating animals that way. Since organic meat is hard to come by around here. I am staying away from it.

We owe animals a life of respect without pain that can be avoided.

[lewis56us]

MNMOM, I never said it was OK to be cruel to animals. To the contrary, I said I agreed with everyone that animals should be treated well. What I said was that people should not be imprisoned for mistreating an animal. There are other penalties that could be imposed. Sending someone to prison isn't something that should be imposed over the suffering or death of an animal. Assuming that the animal mistreatment is the only thing the person is guilty of.
I used to work for a construction company that often did remodeling jobs in large meat packing plants. Believe me, the situation in the video that peach describes is common and nowhere near the worse that I have seen.

I've always treated animals well and will always do so to the best of my ability. But the reality is that some people don't, through ignorance or cruelty, and they should be dealt with according to the individual situation.
Commercial meat producers are in business to make a profit, not to impress PETA, and animal 'rights' are pretty low on their priority list.

[MNMOM]

Lewis,
I'm glad that you cleared that up about your individual feelings about animals. But, people need to be punished for cruelty to animals, it cannot go unpunished. I had read a while ago about a cat that had been found with it's ears cut off and it's eyes gouged out, no animal should have to go through that and the perpetrator needs punishment, he or she needs to feel the pain of the torture and pain that the animal went through.

[Vinland]

Thanks for the info...and Peach I saw that video it was shot in Kentucky. I have to post this link even though I know Im way outnumbered here. Please PLEASE if you have DSL watch it, or if you have 56k try to. Its set to music. When I posted if animals have rights.....I didnt mean just as a food supply, as Im sure you know about testing on them as well. All I ask is that if you have a few minutes....PLEASE watch this. You can flame me or call me any name you like....but I think Im a pretty strong man with calloused hands and heart....but I shed a tear to this.
Thank You

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vp-aFB0Cck&mode=related&search=

[Vinland]

I'd love to hear your feedback about watching it. And for the fur trade.......kinda makes you wonder who the 'ANIMAL' was...the creature or the slaughterer.....
Here is another link...may be easier:

http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/prefs.asp?video=free_me

[critterdoc]

What a nice song to go along with the video! "I hate the whole G** D*** human race." Now those are lovely lyrics.

Funny thing is the same organization thinks that abortion is OK.

Do they show a video of that? OK, I'm done for now.

[Doglover]

Yes animals have rights. All living creatures that have thoughts and emotions of any kind deserve to be treated with compassion and empathy.

[JakeLeg]

i do not believe that animals have the right not to be food.

i do not believe that animals have the right not to be clothing.

i do not believe that animals have the right to destroy crops.

i do not believe that animals have the right not to help save human lives.

while i haven't actually gone hunting in a while, i do not believe that animals have the right not to be wall decorations.

[Vinland]

Jake, be glad as a human you have the right to stupidity and the free will to use that right whenever and as often as you like ;)

[MNMOM]

Yes animals have rights. All living creatures that have thoughts and emotions of any kind deserve to be treated with compassion and empathy.

I couldn't agree with you more. Love my pets, they have given me so much in return.

[alfriedar]

I think that god gave an animal its right to life and its ability to live and I am not sure we as the highest beings on the earth have the right to kill it.
.I don't think there is any punishment for killing an animal other than those we set for the cruelty issues. I suspect as we evolve from cave like beings to very highly evolved, aware spiritual beings we will move away from eating meat as it's not the best for our bodies and we will connect more closely to the spirits of animals whom we will see have the capacity to love and communicate and enjoy life as we do - I dont mean they will ride jetskies or do four star dining but ... the sun, their food and their families . Yes I love the taste as I once ate a lot of meat.. yet over time somehow slowly it just felt wrong .. I can't tell you how it came about .. but it did.. I was thinking that I could raise meat animals like rabbits and chickens - yet I would begin to notice they had individual personalties and that they recognize family etc and I will have a hard time holding them still while I cleave them in two or behead them.. I wanted to be an army sniper too lol but I now see things differently so killing is more difficult unless being killed.

[Catalpa]

alfriedar, I think either you have too much time on your hands, or you're listening to Oprah's warmed over eastern mysticism.

We are not evolving into spritual beings. Evolution is a fantasy.

Yep, animals can be just awesome. My dog laughs and grins when she romps in the snow, and my cat always knew just when to jump up and cuddle with me. But God made cows and pigs to be meat, and chickens to give us eggs.

Do I advocate being cruel to animals? Absolutely not. God gave us dominion over the earth as stewards, not rapists. Do I buy meat or eggs from the large factory farms that mistreat their animals and shoot them full of drugs? No. I buy from my local farmers where I know how the animals are treated.

People who are cruel to animals should be punished and have the animals taken away. I have a friend who has rescued several horses and the stories are just heartbreaking.

We should all, with our buying choices, send a message to the large factory farms that the way they do business is unacceptable.

[sam12six]

My (sure to be unpopular) opinion is that animals have NO rights.

I'm an animal lover. I treat my animals well. That said, I don't lose sight of the fact that I OWN my animals.

If I buy a car, I have the right to beat it with a baseball bat.

I should have that same right with a kitten.

Now, it's not a nice thing to do, and, let me repeat - I love animals and treat all my animals well. I just think there are cruel people who need an outlet for their cruelty. There are only so many law enforcement jobs available.

Now, I'm sure those of you who feel like there's something morally wrong with the emphasis on efficiency found in large agri-business would be happy to pay 50 times as much for food, or eat steak with the consistency of beef jerky because an animal can't be processed until it drops dead due to the will of god. I, myself, prefer the human habit of eating animals that were healthy.

Don't get me wrong, I have a small homestead, and have small farm habits. My cows and chickens (even geese) come when I call them. There's nothing wrong with this, but unless we reverted to an agricultural lifestyle as a country, small farm habits wouldn't provide enough food for everyone.

For those of you who aren't farmers, the big farm businesses are what allow you to be a full time engineer, doctor, or babysitter. I actually enjoy doing my chores, but I know that doesn't apply to everyone. I'm also glad that if I chose to not grow much of my own food, I could buy it without it costing a fortune due to the man-hours involved in producing it.

For those of you who love animals and treat them well, congratulations. I also love animals and treat them well, but I don't think it's right to put someone else in jail because he or she doesn't feel the same way.

I don't smoke weed - just never liked the taste, but I don't think someone should go to jail because they do.

Basically, my stance is that animals should have rights when they become citizens. As long as they're considered property, how they are treated should be up to the people who own them. On a personal level, you could look someone in the eye and tell them you won't do business with them because you think they're cruel and they would have the option of deciding whether losing you as a potential customer is a bigger problem to them than changing whatever it is that you don't like.

See, that's the problem with the animal rights thing. EVERYBODY thinks puppies are cute. Just about everybody would agree that being cruel to puppies isn't nice. So, we've got agreement up to this point, now let's legislate the cruelty. Here's where disagreement comes in...

Some people think it's cruel to eat meat, some people think it's cruel to have animals in cages, some think cages are OK if they're big and "nice" enough. Some people think it's cruel to let your pets run free where they can get run over by cars and fall in a river, some people think it's cruel to put them in fences or on a chain because they should be free...

Go to an extreme:
Either make animals citizens with the right to vote and marry or leave them as property. If you choose to leave them as property, you shouldn't try to regulate how someone else treats their own property by assigning rights that fit how YOU feel like property should be treated.

Vegans, you have the right idea. If you don't agree with something, don't participate. Don't use any animal products because they kill animals to get them. Don't use paper products because some animals are going extinct due to deforestation. Don't use any manufactured products because something, somewhere probably died either directly or indirectly through damage to the environment to produce these products. Don't talk to other people, because they may now, or may have in the past have eaten a piece of an animal.

Live your life around the rights you chose to project onto property, and dammit make everybody else live that way too!!

[gardenfay]

Yep, me again. Just wondering what you all thought of the topic on animal rights. I'll give my opinion and would appreciate a response. Reguardless of your religious upbringing or stance on the issue...do THEY have rights? Many of you know I am a vegan, but I tell you what..I honestly respect more of you than not...because you raise your own, care for your own and create a lifestyle for your livestock that many corporate places just dont do for their animals. Those animals to them are playing chips in a card game called profit. I became vegan from the sole fact of those corporate upbringings stomaches of the supermarket shoper. I have a change of heart after being *here for a few months.
No, I wont eat meat, but I also appreciate the fact that many of you can raise, kill, and eat in a natural environment of the animal as not to stress it out in a small cage that limits its life quality. As I said, its not my cup of tea...but *as someone such as myself who is as put by others' a Hippy 30 years too late' I thank you for being ecofriendly. So...Do animals have rights? Or is an animals rights basically the right to be treated fairly while it exists on this earth? :)

No Vinland:
I don't believe animals have rights - at all.
Am I cruel to animals, ever? No.

Do i think people ought to be more worried about Cruelty to humans? Infinitely, yes!

[FirestarterKY]

Yes, the population of the world puts us in the position to have to produce unbelievable amounts of meat.
People believe they have to eat meat at every meal.
Rights? I dont know, but I know respect is a good thing, if people have time for it.
Having to feed so many people on this Earth stresses everything out and people become idiots when stressed just like animals.
I believe when an animal is eaten the Spirit/energy of that animal is taken in also.
So, trauma becomes the meal, loaded with chemicals.
I'm telling you, killing our own meat, is a trauma filled day! There's no way around it, but if you add into this, respect and gratitude for the life given so that I can have nurishment there is created a balance and then keep in mind nothing wasted, helps too.
I have tried and tried to create a non-trauma killing day of chickens. No way! Thay are gonna freak out and run around with their heads off no matter what.
Anytime life is taken it is not pleasant.
I laugh when a bug I notice has been sucking my blood for a while and shoo it off....I'm just waiting my turn to be a part of the chain.
There's nothing wrong with the chain.
I feel all the foods I eat go on living in me.
The misquito lives because it takes in my protein. I dont like being eaten, but, it's a fair thing. LOL!
And, if I was "buried" like I would like to be, but can't, I'd be eaten by animals. My flesh would become nurishment for the other animals, but I'll be cremated so I'll become fertilizer for the Earth and things will grow from me.
I see circles.
I see what comes around goes around.
Everything has life, I believe....even the carrot.
It starts as a seed just like us and grows just like us....it's all a circle and I feel the answer is to not hate the circle but try to be a part of it in the softest manner possible in these times and days of Trauma=intertainment.

Y'all take care.
Karen

[gardenfay]

Karen:
you said, "I feel all the foods I eat go on living in me".
:o if that is true; my husband will start mooing any day now :'( lol

[flatwater]

I take exception to sam12six reply. some of it I understand but no one I REPEAT no one should have the right to beat an animal. I don't think they have a clue of why they are being beat. If you don't like an animal then kill it quick or give it away but don't beat one to satisfy your anger.
Flatwater

[mtwildflower]

No. Animals do not have rights.

[sam12six]

Like I said, I love animals and TO ME it's not right to be purposefully cruel to animals. That said, you just can't pick and choose rights to assign to property. This is a slippery slope that has gotten our world so screwed up already.

Just because you or I don't think something's right and it's something we would never do, doesn't mean we should infringe on other people's rights through criminalizing that activity. I think it's rude for a waitress not to smile and introduce herself when she first walks up - that doesn't mean I should try to get a law passed so that any waitress who fails to do so finds herself locked up and/or paying $thousands in fines.

This is my point. In a perfect world, deliberate cruelty and even ignorant neglect wouldn't exist. I just don't believe in using the law as a club to make people agree with you. You're certainly free to distance yourself from or not do business with anyone you feel is cruel to animals. I'm sure you already do this.

I just feel like, to be a free society, which is what most of us claim to want, you absolutely MUST respect people's rights to treat their property in any manner they see fit - up to, and including damaging and destroying said property. The problem with picking and choosing certain things people can't do with their own property is that someone must choose which rights they want to take away from other people just so they can feel like the world conforms more to their way of thinking. There are some activities that pretty much anyone on earth will agree are cruel. You won't find very many people who will defend dousing a litter of puppies in gas and lighting them as harmless fun. The problems with animal cruelty aren't these obvious cases, like I was trying to say in my earlier post; it's the facts that people have different ideas of what constitutes cruelty and what I might find incredibly cruel, you might find to be perfectly humane. Along with that, people have different thresholds of what animals "deserve" rights. Most people don't consider swatting a fly wrong, but the majority of these same people would consider shooting a horse wrong just because that horse happened to be somewhere you didn't like it being.

The point I was trying to make in the earlier post is that every right you grant to a piece of property is a right you take away from that property's owner. To close, my stance is that rights in this context are something granted by the government. While I was personally raised to respect animals, I don't want anyone (i.e. the gubment) to be able to decide for me what constitutes respect.

I take exception to sam12six reply. some of it I understand but no one I REPEAT no one should have the right to beat an animal. I don't think they have a clue of why they are being beat. If you don't like an animal then kill it quick or give it away but don't beat one to satisfy your anger.
Flatwater

[WRTN]

WELL said Sam!

[WileyCoyote]

There's actually a non-trauma way to kill chickens.
Hubby shoots out their eye with a .22.
The chicken falls straight to the ground, and the other chickens don't even know what happened.
Very fast and very handy. No running involved - and no chasing, either!

[gardenfay]

Sounds like a good way to do it WC.
We always just chopped off their heads.
Fried chicken with cream gravy and mashed potatoes, mmmm

[MooseToo]

in answer to the topic question - of course not - they are animals -

the manner in which a person relates with an animal is a function of the human's demeanor and personal standards and has nothing to do with some imagined right enjoyed by the animal -