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homesteadingnky
02-02-2008, 10:48 PM
Anyone here do Bio-intensive gardening? (double dug beds, composting, intensive planting, companion planting, open pollenated seeds, cover crops, ...)

I love this method!!! Only wish that I had stumbled across it years ago! For me this is the only way to go now.

I'd love to here from others who have had success with it or those who may be knew to the ideas and want to learn.

Gardening this way is much more fun and productive!

Homesteading Dad 'n KY

Deberosa
02-03-2008, 01:03 PM
Do you pretty much follow John Jeavon's book? I would be interested in how you started and what you do throughout the year. I've got the book and use some ideas but not in detail like he does it. I tried the 4 ft wide beds concept with mixed results. Seemed like alot of extra work so I am going to go back to trying rows in most places this year.

Tell us more about how you implement this!

Thanks,
Debbie

bookwormom
02-03-2008, 04:08 PM
Four feet is too wide for me. my garden is laid out East to West in three feet wide beds so I can reach easy into the middle from both sides. These are intersected by three paths North South. In each bed I plant three rows. for instance in the middle a row of onions flanked by two rows of carrots. Double spading, leave me alone, the older I get the better Ruth Stout looks to me. Compost, yes; companion planting, yes; mulch, yes; green manure cover crops, yes; manure and anything I can get my hands on,yes;

AlchemyAcres
02-03-2008, 04:17 PM
I've been growing most stuff, what I call, semi-biointensive, for years.

Most of my beds are 5' x 20'...after stuff is planted and mulched...there's not usually much reason to enter the beds until harvest.
\
~Martin :)

homesteadingnky
02-03-2008, 09:49 PM
I have combined John Jeavons "Bio-dynamic" concepts and the french "Bio-intensive" methods (what's the differnce? Not really sure but John Jeavon's spiritual journey that is tied into much of his system is definately different from mine. But I'll borrow good sound gardening principles from anyone!)

Anyway, those ideas combined with Crow Millers ideas I found in his "Let's Get Growing Book" and then some of my own ideas I guess make up my "Gardening System" if you want to call it that.

Basically, I laid out my beds, they vary in length but are between 3 and 4 foot wide (no wider than 4' beacuse I NEVER step in the garden soil!) I then "double dug" the garden. Taking a shovel or spade I dig out a row of sod and dirt the depth of the shovel, the length of the row and lay it to the side then take my compost fork and loosen the dirt to the debth of the tines (essentially loosening another 12" of dirt then I take the next strip of sod and dirt and turn it upside down in the trench I just made and then loosen the dirt there with my fork. I continue this making 4 rows which will be between 3' and 4' then then last row I put the sod and dirt from the first row upside down in it. Then I take a rake and level the ground up and cover it with fresh compost 3"or 4" deep. I leave a strip of sod between the rows at least 3' wide this lets me access everything easily and I have room to mow the grass between the beds and use that as mulch. I try to prepare this several weeks before I plant. If possible it's a good idea to put compost or manure in the trench after you loosen it with the fork and before you flip the next layer of sod upside down on it (the more organic matter in your soil the better).

If planting East to West you want to put your tallest plants in the back or the North side so that they don't shade your smaller ones. I plant really close together. I had tomatoes about 12" from each other in staggered rows, then you can plant right up next to them with onions, basil, lettuce, egg plants, etc. but not in small narrow rows. you don't want to waste that precious space fill it with a veggie or a herb (find plants that complement each other not ones that compete with each other that's very important. Then where there is empty space mulch it heavy with compost or shreaded leaves or what ever you have but this suppresses weeds and conserves moisture and is worth the extra initial effort.

Double digging the beds is the hardest part. But once that's done you shouldn't have to do it again if you are careful to stay off the soil and keep it mulched heavily. If it becomes bare the rain will pack it hard. If I step in my bed (accidentally) i'll sink almost a foot before I can get out. the soil is loose and healthy, filled with earthworms and organic matter. The water soaks in and doesn't puddle and it holds moisture very well in a drought. I'm in my garden everyday during the growing season just because I love it and I like to know what's going on. But I wouldn't have to be until time to harvest because it literally takes care of itself. Weeds are not a problem if the garden is prepared properly. Neither are pest if you have healthy soil and the right mixture of companion plants including pest repeling and beneficial insect attracting plants. There are certainly plants that yeild themselves more user friendly in rows (corn and potatoes being to two I usually plant in rows). But It's so much easier to maintain a garden using the biointensive system.

It also includes using op seeds so that you can keep seeds for next years garden (much more sustainable then depending on someone else to provide you with seeds).

As one crop plays out you can pull it up and plant another one and the soil is so healthy that it can support it. In a convential garden you have to till, mulch, and fertilize (organically of course) a lot of ground that isn't planted in anything, just wasted space. With this system you get a maximum return with a minimum effort. It requires less water, less compost, less fertilize, and less stress! By planting so close it really creates a kind of micro climate under the leaves of the plants. You can plant cool weather plants like lettuce in the shade of a tomato plant in the heat of the late summer without the effect of the harsh sun on the plant giving it a good headstart before fall.

I'm only scratching the surface of this system and to be totally honest I'm so tired right now (long day here!) I'm not even sure I'm making any sense. But the system works! I'm a firm believer in it. Have I mastered it? Not even close!! I still have so much to learn!! I may have to do some conventional this year because we are moving and it does take some time to double dig the beds and it isn't easy especially when the ground is filled with rocks. But it's well worth it and I'll start digging beds and dig as many as I can each year.

At the end of the year I sow something like; winter wheat or rye, buckwheat, something that will keep the ground from being bare and leaching out the nutrients. Turn it under in the spring and your ready to go. An note about roto tillers. I wouldn't use them anymore than maybe once in the spring myself. It kills beneficial earthworms and destroys the structure of the soil. The more you use it the finer the soil becomes and the harder it packs when you water it or when it rains.

Hope this helps. I'll reread it tomorrow to make sure It makes since and see what I left out. There's tons of resources out there about it and I'm sure some of you here are beyond me and can add to what I've said. I've purposed to become a lifelong student of gardening so I'm always interested in hearing what others are doing and what works for them. Please continue to share your thoughts and ideas.

Thanks,

Homesteading Dad n KY

bookwormom
02-04-2008, 11:58 AM
quote:
I have combined John Jeavons "Bio-dynamic" concepts and the french "Bio-intensive" methods (what's the differnce? Not really sure but John Jeavon's spiritual journey that is tied into much of his system is definately different from mine. But I'll borrow good sound gardening principles from anyone!)f on the

never heard of the guy. Is he a spin off of Rudolph Steiner? Also wondered why it is called "french". Why not Austrian or Czech or German, etc?

I never set foot in a garden bed and I might get crabby if I caught someone with their feet in one of mine. five feet, that just is too wide for me. I like being able to reach the middle, whether I am planting, picking off bugs, pulling weeds, thinning seedlings,harvesting. To each his own though, as there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Southern_Gent
02-04-2008, 12:39 PM
Would this method work in an enclosed environment? Say long rows underneath one of those greenhouses that uses the plastic sheets.

homesteadingnky
02-04-2008, 04:32 PM
I am so sorry! Please forgive me. As I said in the later part of my post, I was exhausted and should have waited to a later time to post the response.

I said John Jeavons but was refering to Rudolph Steiner when I mentioned the Bio-dynamic gardening which involves his personal and spiritual philosophy.

It didn't hit me that I had them confused in my mind until I read Bookwormom's post. I am sorry. I didn't mean to give John Jeavons a bad name. I have read several of his books and articles and have gleaned some very useful info. from him on "bio-intensive" gardening. I don't do everything just like he does but I do use some of his priciples.

As for why "french" ???? I have read it (bio-intensive gardening) refered to as a french gardening concept in numerous books and articles. I certainly am no authority on either of these men or the gardening concepts they teach. I refer to myself as a lifelong student and unfortunately my memory isn't as good as my desire to learn is.

I can assure you if I don't know something I won't pretend that I do. As to whether this concept will work in an inclosed structure such as a green house I'm not sure, never done it. But I do intend to try. I've been pondering that very thing myself. If you find out before I do be sure to let me know how it goes.

One reason I started this post was that I hoped to learn from some of you and if possible share some of what I've learned. Knowledge is like love, best when it's shared.

I don't like my beds to be anymore than 4' wide either and a little less is even better for me just because it keeps me off the soil.

Homesteading Dad n KY

AlchemyAcres
02-04-2008, 05:13 PM
Would this method work in an enclosed environment? Say long rows underneath one of those greenhouses that uses the plastic sheets.


It sure does!
Unfortunately, I can't have a hoop house where I live, it's just too windy.
:(
I have 6 really big 'cold frames"

Eliot Coleman grows intensively in greenhouses all winter up in Maine.

http://www.fourseasonfarm.com/main/articles/articles/mother2.html

~Martin :)

AlchemyAcres
02-04-2008, 05:18 PM
quote:
.....five feet, that just is too wide for me. I like being able to reach the middle, whether I am planting, picking off bugs, pulling weeds, thinning seedlings,harvesting. To each his own though, as there is more than one way to skin a cat.

There sure is!
;)
I avoid walking on the beds unless it's absolutely necessary...heck..I avoid doing most anything unless it's absolutely necessary! LOL

If I do have to walk on the beds, compaction is never a problem, because the mulch that I uses is so thick.
I use chunks from a bale laid out like tiles....a heavy blanket...walking on my 'soil' never hurts a thing!

~Martin ;)

homesteadingnky
02-04-2008, 07:55 PM
A garden really does take on the personality of the gardener himself/herself making each garden very unique. I think that's one of the things I enjoy most gardening and one of the reasons I enjoy hearing about what others are doing in their own gardens.

Homesteading Dad n KY

Deberosa
02-04-2008, 08:54 PM
I found Jeavon's book Grow More Vegetables a year ago. It's got some great ideas and great charts for productivity and companion planting. I was wondering when you talked about spiritual - he didn't impress me that way. Passionate yes though!

Bookwormom, you can find out more about this method at http://www.bountifulgardens.org/

I did four foot beds this year and hand planted the corn but it came out really bad. I think it was just a bad summer. It's labor intensive for sure. This year I am going back to row planting for most stuff but I want to slowly build a bed or two a year of the intensive planting and work in to it gradually. I do notice where I cultivated last year I since in alot if I walk across that area this year.

homesteadingnky
02-06-2008, 06:37 PM
[quote author=Deberosa link=board=flo-farm-garden;num=1202021304;start=0#11 date=02/04/08 at 20:54:27]I found Jeavon's book Grow More Vegetables a year ago. *It's got some great ideas and great charts for productivity and companion planting. *I was wondering when you talked about spiritual - he didn't impress me that way. *Passionate yes though!

Please refer to my previous post and apology. I like Jeavons and use many of his principles. Understand I don't follow any of these men enough to know all about them. I'm only interested in good gardening priciples that work. Thanks.

Homesteading Dad n KY

Deberosa
02-06-2008, 07:01 PM
No need to appologize! I appreciate the information.

I agree you have to take what you can from all the books, but hearing from others who have tried these methods is even better!

Debbie

homesteadingnky
02-20-2008, 12:51 PM
Part of biointensive gardening is companion planting. Do any of you companion plant in your gardens? And if so, what's your favorite companion plants? I think this could be very useful info to all of us gardeners.

Homesteading Dad