Dowsing: Fact or Fiction?

[humbug]

Water is a very big issue in the state I live in. Finding, developing, and obtaining the right to use water a lot of times is a long drawn out process especially if you want to use it for agricultural purposes.

I have been tossing around the idea of farming 40 acres I own. Obtaining water will involve drilling an irrigation well. Irrigation wells in that area cost around $42.00 a foot so you can see where it could run into a pretty good sized chunk of change.

There is an old farmer here who has been dowsing water wells for farmers and ranchers here for over fifty years and has a proven reputation. He can tell where to put the well, how deep the water will be and how much the well will pump in gallons per minute.

He offered to come by tomorrow and show me how to dowse and see if I have the "gift." Not everyone can dowse.

So what do you think? Is it possible to tell where water is under the ground by dowsing, or is this a bunch of hocus pocus?

[culver]

yes this works my grandad use to do it. it is a gift not every one has.

[docjered]

Dowsing? Absolutely... wish I had the gift! But $42.00 a foot? I checked locally, and a cased well would run $6.oo a foot. More if it exceeds 500 ft.

[wax]

Dowsing is complete fiction... that might work.

I have seen it work myself, but of course it is complete fiction that can not possibly work... even though it often does.

Do you see the problem?

I personally believe that it relies on the dowsers observation and knowledge of water tables. If one understands the land and how water tables affect the surface then one can make an educated guess as to the best place to drill.

But then that would mean that dowsing has a factual basis even if it is a complete fiction... that often works!

[Quietgentleman]

In all honesty the logical side of my brain won't let me believe it's possible. Though I've seen more field tile found with dowsing to make me think maybe there something there. ??? ??? ???

QGM

[humbug]

I am a skeptic by nature. I believe almost nothing that I hear and only about half of what I see and experience.

I got my lesson in dowsing or witching. Farmer Frank showed up with several freshly cut willows in tow. We went over to the firehouse next door because he witched that well and knows where the aquifer runs and it would be the quickest way to find out if I have the "gift."

Frank took out one of the "Y" shaped willows and gripped it between three of his fingers with the end of the "Y" pointing up toward the sky. He walked forward and the willow slowly reversed in his grip and pointed toward the ground. "I can't hold it pointed in the air because of the water," he said. Being the skeptic that I am I am thinking "Yeah right."

My turn was next. I gripped the willow with three fingers and slowly started walking forward. Nothing.... Stick still pointed in the air. He had me back up. He took his hand and lightly held my wrist. We started walking forward. The willow stick pulled out of my tight grip and slowly pulled down to the ground. I could not hold it pointed in the air!!! I was amazed. I backed up again wanting to try it again on my own. I asked him.."What am I supposed to be thinking about..water?' He said I needed to concentrate on what I was trying to find. I pictured in my mind a big pool of water and slowly started walking forward. The willow reversed in my grip and pointed down to the ground. I actually tried to keep it from doing this and I couldn't. I have the gift. ;D ;D I continued to practice witching for over an hour. I was surprised at how strong the pull was. I walked other places to see if it would still pull. No pull, I was able to hold the willow with the end pointed in the air.

Next farmer Frank took out about a seven foot piece of baling wire. It had a flattened curly Q twisted into one end. He sat down on an old bucket that he had and placed the one end of the wire under one of his feet. He then gripped the wire in both hands and let the wire form an arc with the curly Q at the end. He said "This will tell us how deep it is and how much water is there." I sat watching and the wire slowly started to gently bounce up and down. He said "every time it bounces it is a foot to water." I started counting but lost count at about 30 something. He said, "If I remember right the water is over a hundred feet down here." ( Please note that we have some pretty good winds here today so my thought was if the wire is going to move then it would move back and forth not up and down and you would see it blow in the wind.) The wire stopped bouncing and stopped. I was watching Frank to see if there was any movement of his hands. Suddenly the wire started moving from side to side. He said, "This will tell us how deep the strata is." The wire gently moved from side to side 25 times. 25 feet of water bearing strata. The wire stopped. It started bouncing up and down again. "Now what's it doing?" I asked. "Showing us where the next strata is." he replied. He then completely stopped the wire. "Now we are going to ask the wire how many gallons in hundreds will pump out of that strata. " he said. The wire started bouncing up and down again and bounced five times. 500 gallons per minute. I was surprised because I know that is about what that well will pump. It is used by the county to fill water trucks for road work.
He said the wire was something you have to learn after witching for awhile.
We then came back to my house for some tea and blueberry muffins. We spent an hour discussing water stratas and mapping water. I learned a lot about water aquifers.
I am not sure how this works. But I have always been a skeptic but I know that willow had a mind of its own today or was using my mind.....

My experience for what its worth.

[CarolAnn]

WOW! 500 gallons a minute? In Arkansas, people were pleased to get two GPM, and I thought we had a fabulous well with 8. With that kind of water, you have it made!

The douser we used explained her belief about it: We need water to survive so there is at least one person born to every family that has the gift of finding it.

She also was strict about not being called a water witch. She said, "The Bible says not to consort with witches. I am not a witch. I am a douser and don't you forget it!"

My douser was in her 80's, and held one end of the forked stick in her mouth, with the other part of the Y on her chest, the end pointing out. It pulled one way or the other until she got over a stream, then it wagged back and forth as she walked. Using this method, she found two streams and marked where they crossed.

From her life experience, she knew about how much water each stream would yield and how deep they'd be, and she was absolutely right!

So, yeah, I'd have to say dousing is a fact!

[DM]

I normally don't believe in that kind of stuff, but i have seen it work....

When i was a kid, i saw a guy take a green willow and he did find water, and it did move over the spot he said where to put the well in.

I also saw a guy when i was a little older use two pieces of wire bent on one end, that he held in his hands... The wire was cut from coat hangers...

When he walked over water the coat hangers would go together... I kinda thought it was funny and was laughing about it... LOL He said comere.... and he put them in my hands... As i walked over the same spot he did the damn things crossed just like they did for him... LOL I think that smile i had went onto his face then... ha ha ha

DM

[bookwormom]

when we lived in Europe we knew a guy who worked for the telephone company. they used dowsing to find buried cables, water lines and the like.

[kleven626]

I use this method all the time to find water and sewer lines and the occasional electrical line. i doesn't work for everyone and can be learned. my relatives have even had a body dowser come out to the old farmstead to look for an old grave. he did find it.

[randallhilton]

Water is a very big issue in the state I live in. Finding, developing, and obtaining the right to use water a lot of times is a long drawn out process especially if you want to use it for agricultural purposes.


RE: Dousing -- like others, I've used rods to find buried pipe and trench lines but I don't consider that to be dousing.

RE: Water -- I wish I could say "do what I did, here's how" but I can say here's what I'm working on: 1st of all -- start thinking about water efficiency: What crops can be beneficial with less water?

Next, and this is a harder part, figure out ways to water more efficiently. You can fly over west Texas and see bright green crop circles during the growing season but when you drive by them at ground level you see how much water is being dumped on them. The more accurately you can place the water, the less you need.

For a water resource, it might be worth a hard look at rain harvesting. I'm not talking about putting barrels under downspouts but setting up thousands of gallons of storage, catching nearly everything that runs off a roof, and even building roofs just to do it. It may even be as cost effective as a well. Here in Texas, we have what I think is a well thought out design book.
Here's a link to it. (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fw ww.twdb.state.tx.us%2Fpublications%2Freports%2FRai nwaterHarvestingManual_3rdedition.pdf&ei=asCkSfzEN ISJjAecpdHABQ&usg=AFQjCNEh4NThA9Ga4wO7ulpsupcRY3jE cA&sig2=VJx7xqHf6-HvRaqIdUWomw) It provides info about estimating how much you can capture using your local rain data.

One more thought about water resources: If I were in an area where there are already hassles over water then I would be very wary about the future of that water table. The big guys can pump the wells dry and don't think they can't. Up in Wisconsin, I think it is, the Nestle company came in and started bottling water. They sucked so much out of the system that streams started drying up -- that's Wisconsin, not Arizona. Very disturbing.

It will be a little harder for the big guys to put a damper on rain water (but Washington state is already trying!).

Anyway. . . it may be hard work to catch rain but think of it like catching solar: Tanks are your "batteries" and you grab the rain when it comes, then meter it out intelligently.

[crafty2002]

As I have said on here before, I grew up drilling wells. Daddy or me neither one couldn't do it but I have two uncles that could drill a 125-150' well when all the wells around were 300-400' deep. Uncle Buck was drilling a well just down the road from where we were getting ready to set our machine up at. He stopped and got his forked stick out, (He always used peach) but he walked around and told daddy not to drill where we were prepareing to set the machine.
Daddy told the home owner and he said "I don't believe in that hog wash and that where I wan't the well at"
Buck marked a place he said to drill at with a big rock that was about 40-50 feet from where the machine was.
Well, we set the machine up that day but didn't start drilling. Daddy wrote a contract that night that said we would go as deep as 400 feet and if we didn't have water it was just too bad for the guy. He would have to pay anyway. You can't go but so deep with a churn drill because it will only hold something over 400' of cable on the drums.
Sure as the dickens we went down to 412 feet. All the cable we had, daddy blew the well I think it was 3 times, maybe 4 times with dynomite and not a drop of water.
Daddy had to get a lawyer to call the guy before he got his check for the dry well but the man did go ahead and pay him for it.
The man got Buck to come up there and drill another one where Buck had already put the rock at and he couldn't bail it out at 115 feet.
After that we always had Buck or Uncle Doyle bring the peach tree limb if we were in deep well country and we never had to go nearly as deep as the other wells around there.
I can't do it, but I sure believe some people just has the touch for it, as Buck called it.
And he could find underground cables and pipes too.
That's just my opinion but he did it week in and week out for us after Uncle Doyle died.
I think Buck was the better of the two also.
Dennis

[kmccune]

Oh yes . skeptic that I am,seen it work too well to disbelieve it.Maybe its subconcious-maybe its a leftover survival skill.I cant do it-know people that can,theres more to life then our five attenuated senses can tell us-Kevin

[kmccune]

Uhh, randallhilton-good post,those are excellent suggestions.Most people dont realize how finite freshwater is-a rain bucket is better then nothing. My prediction"this country will run out of freshwater and topsoil,before we run out of a oil supply"-Kevin

[cmdan]

People from miles around use to come to my grand father to have him locate a place for a well. He was always successful. My dad said he had done it a few times and it worked for him. I have never try'd it, but did read up on it some. Sounds like most water is within the first 100 foot, but it depends where you live. Here is a *nice little article about it.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Nature-Community/1984-01-01/Dowsing-Fact-or-Fancy.aspx

Here is some legal info on wells. Your state might have something similar. If you scroll down, it talks a little about locations of wells and somethings to keep in mind, while selecting a site.

http://www.water.az.gov/dwr/content/find_by_program/wells/Practical_guide_to_drilling.pdf

[crafty2002]

One thing I never understood about it is that you always hit what is called ground water before you hit a vain in the aquifer.
I never drilled a well that I didn't hit water about the same time as I hit rock. That's water you have to cut off with the well casing and the drill until you hit water in the rock.
Uncle Doyle said you good feel the difference it the vain and ground water but if just seemed crazy to me.
Dennis

[kmccune]

Well the surface water is in the porous stuff& aggregates-in the regions like around here with "karst' geology alot of times you can hit a underground stream in the limestone strata that the water has actually cut a channel in,with the source many miles away-that is why you should never dump stuff in a sinkhole-remember the bottom of a well is downhill from anything of higher elevation,I have seen pictures of well casings passing through caves and of course sometimes you hit fossil water-Kevin

[flatwater]

I douse and it is scientific at least with rods. The water seems to intensify the magnetic field to a fine point. But with that said , when I use a forked willow branch , that one I can't explain When it dips I can't hold it up no matter how hard I try ,( forked willow branch that is)

[biff]

I saw it done on the farm I worked on growing up...If I hadn't seen I wouldn't believe it.

[cnocaingeil]

I read a study not to long ago that showed that in controlled conditions (things like location, direction of flow), dowsing worked as often as random guessing. I think it probably works for some people because they have a good understanding of where the water is locally.
The local drillers said that they couldn't tell any difference when someone witched wells. Overall it seems like such a far-fetched claim that I would only believe it's possible if it was scientifically studied and was statistically proven more accurate than a SWAG.

[kmccune]

Well we had a guy witching a well for us and he found a water line that he didnt know was there-Kevin "any sufficently advanced magic is indistingushable from science"

[silvergramma]

ok here is what i was told by my farrier whose father does it...
they use a forked red willow sucker.. pull it from the ground with the root intact...
what ever it is has to do with polarity and magnatization in the water running or standing in the well.. from what they think,,
walking over the water with that newly pulled sucker supposedly makes the rooted end "dive" towards the ground... dipping possibly several times indicates how many feet you need to drill.. thats the only story i've heard and i need to get someone to come walk the land and find a new place for us to drill so i can have water for the animals .. please pray we find someone in time winter is gonna be hard on us if we have to haul water in 5 gallon buckets in back of the truck when its 40 below without the wind chill.. good luck

[tufhelp]

I had to find the septic tank out on our place and a friend came over and using two braising rods bent with an "L" handle, he walked over the place and found the water lines, the septic tank and also a power line... I was skeptical at first, tried it my self and as predicted, the rods crossed over the items as I walked over them and they separated as I went away from them.

So I did a little more experimenting on my own. Trying to eliminate self induced influence on the rods. I fashioned a "handle" out of 1/4" copper tubing about 5" long so that I could hold onto the copper tubing and the rod could swing freely unaffected by my direct contact with the rod. I was able to repeat all of the previous dowsing trials without error.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q82/willyallen/DowsingRod.jpg
So I'm all psyched up over this dowsing stuff and the next time my brother was out to the place I told him about the dowsing episodes and my further experiments and I find out that he is a dowsing skeptic. "So was I" I say, "but it really works." I reported. So I drag out the rods with the handles and show him the "magic". I invite him to try and there is absolutely no action on the rods - none! My SIL says let me try and it all works for her, back to my brother and still nothing... So now it is weirder than ever - but it does work.

[flatwater]

Tuf help , I have done the same thing with my rods. At first I even held them down a bit so when they crossed they would have to swing up agianst the gravity. Didn't seem to be a problem. The willow method works well also. it will pull down so hard you can't hold them up. Still can't get anything to bob for the depth though

[MrGreenJeans]

I know it can be done. Have done it for family. My pappaw could do it. Won,t do it for anybody else, i think most folks can they just don,t know it. Its just natural.

[freebird914]

I use #6 copper wire bent into a L to locate wiring we we bury new cables if our electronic verisions can't pick them up.... Also locates pipes and other metal objects....

[flatwater]

I'm looking for a method that will pick up old five dollar gold pieces. Let me know if anyone comes across one

[backlash]

It will be a little harder for the big guys to put a damper on rain water (but Washington state is already trying!).


Good new for Washington.
Last week the state finally clarified the rules.
Rain water collection in now OK and actually encouraged.

file:///C:/Users/Al/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.pnghttp://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/wr/rules/images/pdf/pol1017.pdf

[Roots_Farm]

I've seen many a strange thing in my day and have come to realize that just because we can't explain it doesn't mean it doesn't work. Like most of the stories already told I have stood, dumbfounded, watching people find power, sewer and water lines with bent metal rods. Then I watch as someone pulls out the electronic equipment and marks the same spots. My wifes grandmother uses the pencil test to see if someone is having a boy or a girl. I called B.S. on that one but once again I seemed to be wrong. I've known her for almost 17 years and she has been right every time. Some things work simply because they do.

[CastIronCook2]

"There are stranger things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than dreamt of in your philosophy."

[flatwater]

Darn Backlash , you just made my day, now I don't feel so guilty for stealing Gods water. And that has got to be a first for Wa. Doing anything that makes since. Yeh for us.

[Oblio13]

Dowsing is a classic example of self-deception. A bunch of formal studies have been done and are available with a Google search. None of them showed that dowsers are any more reliable than chance.

"... the sad fact is that dowsers are no better at finding water than anyone else. Drill a well almost anywhere in an area where water is geologically possible, and you will find it."

[flatwater]

There is some wizdom to that statement if you live over an aquifer, but if your looking for an underground stream, dowsing works