Anyone here with a small scale hydro generator?

[cbcansurvive]

We are not homesteaders yet but hope to be within 10 years and we're looking for a 15-20 acre piece of land with a stream so that we can utilize a small scale hydro generator as our first step in getting off-grid. Once we get that in place we'll look into solar and hopefully combined with a decent battery bank and possibly a listeroid genset we'll be able to be completely independent. I looked at the Other Power forums, but they seem to be geared toward small, homebuilt systems. I am interested in doing much of the work myself, but utilizing purpose built turbines, power controllers, etc... Does anyone have a system like this?

The problem I'm having is I'm getting a little bogged down in gallons per minute vs. cubic feet per second. Using an online hydroelectric calculator I came up with these figures:

(Note-figures are rounded)

100 feet of head @ 1 CFS (450 GPM) = 8.5 Kwh

I live in the hilly region of New Jersey (northwest), but the highest points in the areas we are looking at 600-800 feet, so I don't expect that we'll be able to get more than 100 feet of head on any given property. However, if the stream on the property provided more flow as demonstrated here, we could certainly get more power:

100 feet of head @ 1.5 CFS (675 GPM) = 13 Kwh

100 feet of head @ 2 CFS (895 GPM) = 17 Kwh

The question is what does 1 cubic foot per second look like vs. 2? I'm just trying to get an idea of what to look for when we look at properties.

[randallhilton]

We are not homesteaders yet but hope to be within 10 years and we're looking for a 15-20 acre piece of land with a stream so that we can utilize a small scale hydro generator as our first step in getting off-grid.

I suspect the universe of micro hydro folks is considerably smaller than that of solar and/or wind folks so I'll chime in, though not exactly on topic. Here's something else you might ponder:

Is a hydro power plant a central reason for moving to the country? That's valid reason, of course, but there are quality of life issues you might consider as well: A level or semi level yard, a gorgeous view, distant neighbors and things like that are typical priorties as well.

Solar and wind offer much more flexibility in location so you might find a thousand places that meet your requirements without having suitable water flow.

Also to consider -- you'll probably be laying 100 or more feet of unsightly pipe to provide adequate head for the turbine. It's not likely you'll be building your home right next to the creek so you'll have to string power wires as well. I don't know how much tinkering a micro hydro requires but I'll wager it's on par with battery maintenance. (water always wants to find a way to foul things up).

I know this isn't particularly helpul to your query and I'm not trying to talk you out of anything. Just tossing some thought fodder out there.

[johnjmw]

Lets see if I can remember an old article I read. To get a rough ball park figure on a stream. Figure out the area of water passing a given point aprox average depth x the with of the stream. For quick reference eyeball it unless you really want to measure it. Then throw a stick in and time how far it goes how fast. This will give you an idea about the flow rate. The more accurately you measure the better the stats of course. Then simple math will give you GPM and CFS.
John

[swampcedars]

I am gearing up for small scale hydro at my place.

From my research things are in GPM and calcuated with Head (fall).

The type or wheel/turbine you go with will be driven by your site and what you have for 'water'.

the nice thing about hydro is that it runs all day regardless of the sun or wind...so it can constantly charge a battery bank.

I would say find your land with the water then calculate it's potential...before hand you can figure out what your power needs would be and educate yourself on different systems.

...and make sure your water supply is a true year round supply and not just seasonal.

[Anon001]

along the same lines as the reference from swampcedars on it being seasonal.... many creeks, streams, and rivers freeze over in the winter. I would always opt for solar as the primary source with hydro as a possible backup.

[ktm rider]

I have been looking into Hydro for a few years now. I have a nice stream that runs through my farm. It has a flow from 150GPM to 400+GPM. with 55 ft of head in a run of about 500ft.

Using hydro is a no brainer over other altenative energy sources. (yes, that includes wind and solar) I can power my whole home, garage and barn for right about $7,000 and NEVER have another electric bill again.
The pipe is usually buried to eliminate the problem of freezing, pipe damage and freezing. Moving water requires much colder temps to freeze compared to standing water.

Pros and Cons

WIND- (Cons)
*About 5 times more expensive than hydro to produce same amount of power
* Hit and Miss, wind doesn't always blow.
* needs to be placed very high and not easily accessable for maintenance.

(Pros)
* not as expensive as solar
* tax credits if you qualify
* good selection of turbines to meets any power need

SOLAR ( cons)
* EXPENSIVE !
* need a ton of panels to completley power a home
* availability of panels is a bit sketchy right now
* not always sunny outside, especially in the winter
* requires southern exposure that some people do not have.
* Panels lose efficiency after aging.
* Did I mention the cost a fortune?

(Pros)
* tax credits
* alot fo installers around the country
* expandable ( if you have the money)

Hydro ( Pros)

* WAY, WAY less expensive per KW than solar and even wind.
* unlike wind and solar it produces power 24/7( steady production of power)
* once installed, routine maintenance is next to none.
* capable of producing enough power to completley power a homestead all year round

(Cons)

* Can not expand ( put output is derivative to the flow and head)
* As of right now no tax credits
* Piping needs to be buried for proper installation

Bottom line is if you have a good running stream with plenty of head, Hydro is the only way to go.

[Anon001]

Your statement that solar is "EXPENSIVE" is not necessarily true. It depends on how wasteful the home is and it doesn't always take a lot of solar panels. I have two.

ALternative energy doesn't begin with the concept of how much energy to power the home, but rather what are the residents needs and build up from there. With any system, it doesn't matter how much or little you install, you will never be happy if you aren't conservative and learn to cut power. Anyone considering alternative energy have to first learn how to cutback.

Solar for my home was 1/3 the cost of getting utility electric. It's payout is right at $13.00 per month.

I agree that hydro could be a first best choice. However, the majority of people considering alternative energy do NOT have the hydro option. After hydro, solar is the next best option and wind as the third option.

Paul

[ktm rider]

Your statement that solar is "EXPENSIVE" is not necessarily true. It depends on how wasteful the home is and it doesn't always take a lot of solar panels. I have two.

ALternative energy doesn't begin with the concept of how much energy to power the home, but rather what are the residents needs and build up from there. With any system, it doesn't matter how much or little you install, you will never be happy if you aren't conservative and learn to cut power. Anyone considering alternative energy have to first learn how to cutback.

Solar for my home was 1/3 the cost of getting utility electric. It's payout is right at $13.00 per month.

I agree that hydro could be a first best choice. However, the majority of people considering alternative energy do NOT have the hydro option. After hydro, solar is the next best option and wind as the third option.

Paul


Paul,

You are that conservation is the key. Especially with solar. The more you can conserve the less solar panels you will need obviously. But after looking into hydro, I would not have to make any lifestyle changes or change my consumption at all ( thankfully because I have two daughters!!)
My household average use is around 650-700KwH a month and my creek will put out roughly 850Kwh a month minnimum. In order to make 850 KwH a month with solar would cost a fortune !!
I was basing the cost of solar to hydro and the $ per KW factor.
You are correct that it sure does help to have a creek if you want to use hydro.:lol:

[Anon001]

Since I know very little about hydro....

I know that with solar and wind you don't want to discharge the batteries any more than 20% to 25% of the storage capacity. So, with hydro, since it charges 24 hours instead of just during sunlight, how would that affect you and your size of battery bank? Also, does the water source run year round or does it freeze over in winter?

I have 3 ponds and sure wish I could rig up some flow to use hydro... but, I get along okay with my solar.

Yeah.. two daughters make it harder to go with alternative energy. lol

[ktm rider]

Well, since the water is moving pretty fast (from the drop in the creek) it really doesn't freeze. It is colder than a you know what and there is ice on the sides of the creek but it doesn't freeze solid. The flow does vary but it usually doesn't get any lower than 200gpm in the dead of summer. in the winter is is over 400+gpm

There are several ways to handle the battery issue. I am planning to not have batteries at all , just directly hooked to my meter (net metered) and use the power company as the batteries. They will give credits for unused electricity. Or, you could use a shunt possibly to "bleed off" excess energy which is usually your domestic hot water heater. Any excess power would simply be diverted to your hot water tank once your batteries are full. got any pics of your setup?

[Anon001]

No. I don't have any pics of my setup.

So, you plan to stay connected to the grid and just get the credits?

I wanted to be completely independent of the utility companies.

I just have the two panels that go to a digital charge controller. I think its a Xantrex C40. From there it goes to the batteries. I use a small portable inverter.

I have a small RV breaker box with the heavy cord that can be pulled out and plugged into a generator if I need more than my inverter or batteries can handle such as a wringer washer or power tools.

In 11-1/2 years, I've had no electric bill and sure do like it. I wish I could add hydro but it isn't possible.

I do keep thinking about creating a head from one pond, but I would have to come up with a way to divert the water back into the pond.... just playing with the ideas. I doubt I'll get it done. lol

[gunsmoke]

This is a great discussion.

It contains a very important lesson about alternative energy and thaT is "ONE SIZE DOES NOT FIT ALL"

A small homestead in the SW desert is not likely to have sufficient live water to support hydro but by way of irony the most sucessful cost-effective public hydro project in history is located in thr high desert on the NV/AZ state line!

Like everything else involving real estate there are only three things that matter,

LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION.

if you are so fortunate to have a homestead with abundant LIVE water, HYDRO MAY WELL be the most cost effective option. If on the windswept prarie, or in the desert southwest hydro probably won't be an option.

I have lived my who;e life on the Mississippi River and my family has a long history of living on live water, so when we commenced our search for a homestead site the first item on the list was "ABUNDANT LIVE WATER" not specifically for hydro but for stable LONG-TERM water supply. And then there are a whole list of options that the live water provides, including, the option of utilizing it for hydro.

We will be grid-tied but are probably going to use a considerable amount of solar to increase independence, and I already own and have stored the prime power generators, and the LPG tanks that will store and supply their feed, that will be ready to replace the grid tie if ever and whenever it needs replacing.

Good luck with your hydro project and please keep us posted on your progress.