What is the best?

[shinmeeok]

What in your opinion would be the best option for alternative energy, what works best for a single home? I've been weighing my options and was torn between solar and waterwheels. Who can give me some good advice as to experiencing the two? How much power does the waterwheel produce, compared to the solar panels and modules? Which is best?

[Southern_Gent]

Really it depends on what area of the country you live in. Some areas do far better with solar than others. Also, were you considering the use of a battery storage system with the solar arrays? If so, there's additional pros and cons to be considered.

If you're not looking at a battery storage system with solar, then once the sun goes down, your arrays won't be producing power. The water wheel will continue to produce power, so long as there is enough flow across the wheel. However, if your area suffers a drought, or someone upstream of you damns the creek, then your water wheel won't be producing power.

As to size, solar is usually a modular system. Depending on the number of panels you install and the solar radiation index for your area, you can produce ample amounts of power. For the water wheel, it will depend on the size generator that's being turned, and depending on the amount of flow in your stream, there may be limitations on what you produce.

Here's a good link for differing types of alternative power.

www.homepower.com

[shinmeeok]

Perhaps you could tell me how many panels I would need to produce enough energy for a month for a small house.

[Southern_Gent]

What is your kWh usage of your highest bill? Also, which state are you in?

I can run some calculations and give you an idea on the number of panels to install. Another fellow here by the handle of 12vman can give you better hands on advice, since he's built a few systems.

[shinmeeok]

I'm in the state of Arkansas and what I'm trying to do is build a self contained system and I think I will be using 2500 kwh per month. What I wanted to know is by using a waterwheel and a solar system how many panels would I need for a solar system, and how big of a wheel and how much water to turn the wheel so that I can maintain 2500 kwh per month or more. Also where and what kind of batteries I would need for a backup system that would last 2-7 days.

[shinmeeok]

What would be the best inverter for both systems?

[DM]

One thing about a water wheel, it works day AND night, in sunny or cloudy weather...

I'm thinking of building one too...

DM

[jott]

wow 2500 KWh a month :o unless you have a vary large budget for this project you need to cut back. For solar a good guess is 1$ a watt. 2500/30 days = 83 a day / 24= 3.5KWh per hour. If you get sun 12 hr a day that means that you 7KW worth of panels. If you want run on battery for when it is not sunny you could get about 14KW of panels but it would take as long to charge. So if you want coverage for 3 days of rain it would take more then 3 days sun to recharge before more rain.

So that would be $14,000 just for the panels you would still need batteries and for 3days worth at 83 KWh a day, mite cost you more then the panels. And it you are discharging your batteries often with heavy loads you have to replace them often. I have not looked at prices for a solar set up recently but I have looked at them for UPS systems, lead has been going way up in price so what you pay for new batteries in a few years when you replace them mite be many times what you pay now. And you still have to get an inverter that can power what ever it is that is using so much power.

If you want to get off grid I would first look at what you can do without.
Dryer – get a gas fired one if you need to have it.
AC- if you can’t live without it maybe a small one that just cools one small room not the whole house
Refrigerator – they make ones that work on gas.
Heat - electric is out also moving heat in water with a small pump is much more efficient then air with a fan.
Computer – lap tops use much less power then a desk top.


Look around the first step is conserve.

[Southern_Gent]

At best, I believe Arkansas has 4 hours of peak solar activity per day. This would be when your panels would produce the rated amount. They would still produce during the rest of the day, but at reduced capacity. Given that an average panel produces aroung 175 Watts, you would need a very large array to produce 2500 kWh per month, with reserve capacity to charge batteries for several days of down time.

You're looking at a very expensive system and you'd be better off to heed jott's advice and cut consumption, thereby allowing for a smaller PV system.

[machinemaker]

I would suggest reading rex ewings book, titled power with nature. a great book that will walk you through designing a system. Without the details of what you need to power, there you can cut back and what your site has as far as solar exposure, water flow, and wind. it is only guessing what would work.
kent

[bee_pipes]

I've been watching the thread and enjoying it. Thought about piping in with Ewing's book too. As a primer on renewable energy, you can't beat it. The story of the first part is sort of silly, but it does accomplish the author's goals - acquaints you with the components in a relatively painless manner.

There were also recommendations on this thread about replacing appliances. Remember that if you are replacing electrical appliances with something that runs on LP or kerosene, you are substituting a dependency on the electric company for a dependency on a gas company. Whether it be kerosene or LP, you are depndent on suppliers making it to a place where you can pick it up or vendors making deliveries.

In a true SHTF scenario (like Katrina), I'd opt for no dependencies. Sun, water, wind and wood are all renewable and obtainable locally. The biggest problem will be replacement parts for inverters, charge controllers, solar cells, etc. That is a dependancy you can't overcome, but you are not as likely to need to them as quickly as you would need to refill your LP, etc.

Regards,
Pat

[DM]

The water wheel would be making electricity every day, all day... Maybe not enough to use alone, but it would be on the job in any weather...