dam building - seeking practical advice

[bee_pipes]

We have a small creek. From the entry in the back of the property to the front, where it exits, it drops 20 feet or so. No sudden drops, just gradual. It is a small creek - you can walk across it in some spots. It is steady, fed by springs and runnoff. About the middle of the property it has high sides - 6 foot or better, and I'd like to dam it. I don't want to stop the water, just back it up enough to make use of it. A 5 or 6 foot drop would be adequate for irrigation and maybe a little power - something to play with in the future.

Has anybody built a dam? Most of the stuff I see involves dozers, backhoes or other large pieced of equipment. That isn't an option for me. Our biggest assets are persistence, a wealth of small rock, and the ability to make our own timbers. I can see a few ways to approach this, but would like to check out there to see if any of you folks have any experience in this sort of stuff.

Also, any simple flood gates or other level controls?

Thanks in advance!

Regards,
Pat

[jott]

I don’t know about where you are but hear to do something like that the right way would mean endless DEP and, fish and wildlife permits and fees and they would probably say no. Needed permits just to put a small foot bridge in. But the creeks around here are considered high value for trout and bog turtles.

Anyway something we do that is under the radar and you may consider it since it is cheaper. Get a long piece of pipe make a small dam with rocks or whatever so the end is under water. Run that down stream and get the same head as if you had a dam. This way there is no blocking of the main stream flow so less to worry about it backing up in a flood. You would have to worry about losing your pipe but you could secure it someway.

[Pigzzilla]

According to our local County Building Inspector, we have what Fish and Game calls "Fairy Shrimp". Can't see them, can't do any thing to disturb their habitat. Their "habitat" across my 3 acres is a natural ditch, gap, crevass, gully or whatever you want to call it, that has only rain water and just enuf drop to "flow" from north neighbor to south neighbor. All it does is hold just enuf water to breed mosquitos. And the stupid fairy shrimp won't eat them! We cannot do anything there. Not even pull out a pine tree that fell 2 years ago. Unless we buy a $100 "permit". And don't even think about a footbridge to get to the back 1/3 acre to help the back neighbor with the wire fence.

o well, enuf ranting on that subject.................

[bee_pipes]

Don't know where you folks are, but sure makes me glad to be out in the boonies. For now, I can do anything I want to, just have to have a little consideration of the neighbors down stream from me. Get enough people living in the area, and we'll prolly get regulations up the wazoo. Hopefully not in my lifetime.

Actually, rather than experiences with regulatory boards and laws, I was hoping for suggestions with design and construction. Beginning to look like sand bags might be the way to go. Cheap, can be done piecemeal, can be made thick enough to hold the water, and flexible enough to put in flood gate or other controls.

Regards,
Pat

[SolarGary]

Hi,
I think Jott's suggestion was a good one. It will be a lot less work than building a full size dam, and the result should be just as good. And, you won't have to worry what happens to the folks downstream if your dam fails during the spring runoff.

There are several micro hydro electric generation writeups here that have enough detail to build:
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Hydro/hydro.htm

You should make sure that the water that you divert for power generation goes back into the stream after it goes through the generator.

Gary

[bee_pipes]

Hi,
... Jott's suggestion was a good one. It will be a lot less work than building a full size dam...


If just for power, right. But there are added benefits like irrigation, fishing and waterfowl. Don't get me wrong, the creek is very small, I just have a landscape feature that would allow me to take advantage of it. I'll post pictures tomorrow. There are two ponds nearby that are really low, and down hill there is a garden that could be irrigated without running the well.

There are excellent instructions on the web for micro-hydro. My head is spinning already with possibilities for rewiring electric motors into permanent magnet generators. Man, this is a great time to be alive...


You should make sure that the water that you divert for power generation goes back into the stream after it goes through the generator.

Gary


To be sure. I don't really want to stop the stream, just back it up a wee bit and allow it to continue flowing through the property. Sand bags are looking like a way to do it piecemeal and let it back up slowly during construction. I found a place with bags for $.28 each, I'm game for ten or twenty bucks to experiment. There are a few places on the ridges around here where rain runoff is cutting gullies into my roads, so this might be a good solution for a few problems. My time is cheap, so long as the chores are caught up... ;D

I appreciate the info - makes me think this is the right track...

Regards,
Pat

[bee_pipes]

Here are the pictures

(mozilla/firefox right click and view image for larger picture)
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o120/bee_pipes/1lookingupstreamtowardshighbanks.jpg
looking upstream. Heading upstream, the banks get higher as the creek cuts into the hill side.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o120/bee_pipes/2lookingupstreamfromhighbanks.jpg
looking upstream. On the other side of this 12" drop, the banks are seven feet above the surface of the water. The close sides make a natural bottleneck that gets eroded by meanders.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o120/bee_pipes/3lookingupstreamfromhighbanks.jpg
looking upstream. This is the section of the creek bed with 7 foot banks. Further upstream is a narrow flood plain (20' or so) where past meanders in the creek

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o120/bee_pipes/4lookingdownstreamfromhighbanks.jpg
Looking back down stream, where the banks start falling away towards creek level.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o120/bee_pipes/6lookingdownstreemfrom7footbanks.jpg
From the bank, looking down into the creek bed, seven feet below.

Height perception really doesn't come through on the pictures.

Regards,
Pat

[Al_Coda]

Lucky SOB, wish I had a creek...

I have no experience with this, but sandbags do sound like a cheap way to go, maybe just on top of that 12" drop in pic #2? Pack the bags around a short piece of 4" diameter PVC (depending on amount of water/pressure) set right in the middle of the sandbag dam. Cap the PVC (at night) to allow the backwater to fill. Should have some decent water pressure coming out on the downstream side for the hydro propeller/wheel once you pull the cap.

I'd even consider quikrete if necessary to block those meanders, assuming you can divert the water away long enough to let it set.

[DavidOH]

Yeah, I'd love to have that in my back yard. *8)

A quick search found some interesting reading material.

My first thought was a Rock-fill dam,
or as I'd call it a "Box of Rocks", but your sand bags would work.
First lay a pipe to divert the flow so you can do your construction.

This is a "farm pond" right?
http://www.state.tn.us/environment/dws/newdam.shtml

simple demonstration:
http://library.thinkquest.org/27419/for_teachers/build_a_dam/html.html

Funny story:
http://www.snopes.com/humor/letters/dammed.asp

dams:
http://www.ipedia.com/dam.html


Small scale *hydro. Look's like an opportunity, (if the government doesn't come in and mess things up) *;)

[bee_pipes]

Kewl! Tennessee doesn't recognize anything smaller than 20 feet high or impounding less than 30 acre feet as a dam. Under the radar for regulations!

It's not a farm pond, we don't live on a farm. Farms are places where you have to fill out a NASS survey. We aren't a farm, we're just retired folks that have a garden and a few chickens and such... ;D

Tennessee is truly the state that TVA built. We have a long history from the first attempt at statehood as Franklin, until finally breaking away from North Carolina as Tennessee. They take their dams serious out here, and my little earth moving project is just too puny to be considered as a dam. The impounded waters of our state are the reason we have cheap electricity, great fishing and so many places to paddle. TVA was thrown together as part of the New Deal for flood control and power generation. Popular rumor says it's initial goal was power for Oak Ridge while they were building the bomb, and it just spread from there until it hooked up with the system maintained by the Army Corps of Engineers.

I've seen that piece about the fellow in Michigan with the beaver dam - pretty funny. We do have beaver around here, but the neighbors keep them culled back. Nothing worse than seeing your dog come running in with a 40 pound rat hanging from his neck. I've got a sister living well inside Indianapolis - the back of her house faces a water hazard on a golf course. A few times a year they will get a beaver in there. It scours the neighborhood at night looking for trees to gnaw down and drag back to the pond. Whenever someone plans a new tree in that neighborhood (to replace the old ones) they ring the trunk with linoleum. When I lived in Northern Virginia, every once in a while you;d hear about a beaver moving into DC from the Potomac and gnawing down their prized cherry trees ;D

So long as I don't cut off the flow to the neighbor downstream, there won't be a problem. We're about a mile off the road and pretty secluded. When the creek leaves my property and heads to the neighbor, the creek continues to drop and the banks get higher. The neighbor had an earth dam, years before we moved here, in a spot with 15' high banks.

Thanks for the input. My searches on the web turned up nothing about home-owner built dams, simple construction or small dams. Appreciate the links.

Regards,
Pat

[ArmySGT.]

Hmmmmmmm Back to basics has one or two Dam designs. Easier to build would be a plank design. I think you better find out about the Laws and Regulations concerning dams and any improvements on waters. My Dad thought he was "out in the Boonies" too. Built a bridge over a seaonal creek bed. $8000.00 in fees later and he had to take the bridge back out and "restore" the stream bed. The work never went down in to the bed or even the sides as my Dad felt they weren't strong enough. Check State and Federal laws by checking with your Building commision first. Under the Radar fees are very steep.

[DavidOH]

That's what I thought after reading through the regulations. Your's is too small for their "fees" to apply.

3 - 5 hundred bucks you could build the thing instead of asking for a buracratic headache!

I'd do it. ;D

If the water backs up on your property and not the neighbors then it's your problem and not theirs.

I checked with my county office about water flow on my back acre. If my neighbors didn't complain, they couldn't care less. No regulation. No fees. Don't bother.

TN regulations sound better than here anyway.

[WRTN]

Kewl! Tennessee doesn't recognize anything smaller than 20 feet high or impounding less than 30 acre feet as a dam. Under the radar for regulations!

It's not a farm pond, we don't live on a farm. Farms are places where you have to fill out *a NASS survey. We aren't a farm, we're just retired folks that have a garden and a few chickens and such... ;D



Morning Pat,

Interesting thread you guys have going here. *Just a follow on in the "read the fine print" department, *a farm pond in defined by the TDEC JBTB's as:

FARM PONDS
Certain classes of dams are exempt from regulation under the Safe Dams Act. The main exemption is for "farm ponds". Farm ponds are defined in the regulations as "...any impoundment used ONLY for providing water for agriculture and domestic purposes such as livestock and poultry watering, irrigation of crops, recreation, and conservation, for the owner or occupant of the farm, his family, and invited guests, but does not include any impoundment for which the water, or privileges or products of the water, are available to the general public." A farm pond is exempt from the Safe Dams Act, but may NOT be exempt from other permitting requirements such as ARAP, etc.

The above given.........I would say that you would be alright with the exception of ARAP (Aquatic Resource Alteration Permit) *

http://www.state.tn.us/environment/permits/arap.shtml

The above permit link applies to the "Waters of Tennessee" defined as:

Waters: Any and all water, public or private, on or beneath the surface of the ground, which is contained within, flows through or borders on Tennessee or any portion thereof except those bodies of water confined to and retained within the limits of private property in single ownership which do not combine or effect a junction with natural surface or underground waters. TCA Section 69-3-103(33)

TCA Section 69-3-103(33) is defined as:

(33) *“Waters” means any and all water, public or private, on or beneath the surface of the ground, that are contained within, flow through, or border upon Tennessee or any portion thereof, except those bodies of water confined to and retained within the limits of private property in single ownership that do not combine or effect a junction with natural surface or underground waters;

http://michie.lexisnexis.com/tennessee/lpext.dll/tncode/25276/25307/25309/25315?f=templates&fn=document-frame.htm&q=69-3-103(33)&x=Advanced&2.0#LPHit1

The above "BBBS" indicates a course of action to determine the liklihood of anyone even knowing about your project. *Can anyone see it? *Can anyone even get to it without trespassing in a fashion that might go unnoticed? *Are any of your neighbors total jerks? *If no, I would say chances are that if you don't build it too big or hold back too much water; it would go unnoticed. *Worst case is that the "JBTB's" at TDEC send you a notice to remove the dam or submit a permit request.

Definitely sounds like an interesting and fun project. *

Now if you would like a guided tour to view some REALLY nice and SOLID dams some of my "beaver friends" have built on our property that might give you a "few" design ideas to consider........... ;)