Re: Was Paul the founder of Chrisitianity?

[Catalpa]

sjf, do you not work for a living or something? Man, but you make long posts. Of course when I read through them you talk much but say little.

I am not going to preface my response with a number, I'm simply popping in because I have a reply to the posted question.

No, Paul was not the founder of Christianity.

Paul was the last of the apostles to see Christ, in his conversion while on the road to Damascus. He was the most prolific of writers in the New Testament, and spent his life traveling around preaching the Gospel. He was eventually killed for his faith.

Christianity is simply the term used to describe the true faith. Christ, or Christos, means 'anointed one'. Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ, the anointed, risen Lord, and those who follow him are known as Christians. I believe the term came into general use somewhat after Paul's time.

[Catalpa]

sjf said: "Catalpa,
Sorry but the posted questioned was not 'Was Paul the founder of Christianity'? The title of this thread was:'Was Paul the founder of Christianity'.
I posted, "the following were some of the questions put forward by the author: . . . if you care to discuss these questions . . .
So do you care to 'discuss' any of these questions Catalpa?"

Acutally, if you look at the thread title, it does say:

Was Paul the founder of Christianity?

Again, I say, no he wasn't.

Now, if I was retired, or my renovation and moving projects done, I would love to spend hours telling you of my Lord and His Grace. But as it is, I don't have time to read your acres and acres of posts, nor am I going to waste my time going to websites that promote nonsense so I guess we can't discuss it. If I had time, I could post as much and even more than you do, all of which would be evidence for my Lord.

Besides, we can discuss until we're both blue in the face, but know this: nothing you can say, no source you can ever quote, no web site you can ever link will ever convince me that you are right, and you will never, ever shake or even cause me to doubt my faith in Christ, my belief in the Bible as the inspired and holy word of God, and in my salvation.

I know my Redeemer lives!

I will continue to pray for you, that your eyes be opened to the truth.

Cat

[BrentL]

on other thread you said

If we're going to 'discuss' the message of the Gospel (which is Christ died for our sins) we need to go back over to my thread, Was Paul the founder of Christianity?

so, although this is not exactly following the title of the thread, I thought I would post this here.

I would like to know if you agree with the following:

1 IF Jesus is the Christ, then none of what you are posting is relevant except in an historical sense. and none of your research has been successful in uncovering real truth.

2 IF Jesus is NOT the Christ, then what you are teaching is of importance only to those who are seeking the truth.

[BrentL]

if you wish to play silly games with words like "real truth" then there is no ability nor desire for me to continue this conversation.

what the "christ" is or means could be an important area of mutual understanding but not if everything will be relative.

I believe in absolute truths.

it appears you do not. After years of trying to hold intelligent conversations with people, I have found that unless people believe in absolute truths then there is no foundation to build the "intelligent conversation" on.

so, if your world is relative, we have nothing in common to seek common ground on.

[flatwater]

I got to give it to you flamethrower , you deffinetly are the master-debater.
Flatwater

[BrentL]

You posted, "I am not here to debate this with anyone."
(see quote above) So I guess then there really is no point in your posting in response to my threads.

i'm sorry, did you think I was debating that with you?


nope, I like the historical aspect of religious studies, I like the fact that you are taking the time to read Jefferson's letters. I disagree with your constant attack on Christianity, but not your historical studies, and so was looking for an area where perhaps I could learn from you, as I am constantly looking for learning.

I could learn more if we had a common ground to build from. I was looking for such.

[lsg]

Flatwater, he is certainly a master purveyor of horse manure! He loves to hear himself expound. His so called research is not true research. He does have a talent for sounding convincing; and in this uninformed society, unfortunately if someone sounds convincing we automatically assume they know what they are talking about. Wikipedia figures largely in all his posts. Anyone can change the content of Wikipedia so it is not even considered a reliable resource for elementary kids. I know, because I am a certified librarian and we have to be aware of what is a good source and what is not.

[lsg]

My but you must have a huge yurt to hold all of those books or are you counting the internet where anyone can write anything and you just proved my point.
You have practically taken over this section of the forum and now you are expounding on the other sections. *Just because you can read doesn't mean what you read is right. *Any time one of us post something about the Bible or Christianity you jump in and post something negative and try to refute what we believe. I am tired of it and I finally said so. If you don't like it tough.
You posted that you changed your mind about Christianity because you couldn't answer the questions someone asked you. *It is a pity that your pride caused you to think that it was the Bible at fault and not you. *Why didn't you try to prove the Bible correct instead of jumping on the bandwagon that says just because I can't refute what I someone says about the Bible they must be right. *How sad.

[lsg]

My library at the middle school where I work has over 7,000 books and we have shelves and shelves of books. *I would like to know what kind of dwelling you live in that would hold 3,000 physical volumes. *If they are still in boxes somewhere they are not much good to you are they? *I have access to several libraries; but I am not bragging about that. *Wikipedia, which you constantly quote is not even allowed for our middle school kids to count as a research source, because it is so unreliable. *The Bible has been translated in many languages; but that doesn't mean the message has changed. *This is just another one of your lies. *Get over what ever it is that has you so bitter. *

[lsg]

Well, I must apologize for my outburst. *It certainly was not an example of Christ-like love. *So please forgive me. *That doesn't mean I agree with what you are trying to accomplish here or that I won't challenge you at every turn.

[gardenfay]

So sfreeman, when you changed your mind about the Bible, do you feel you had already accepted Christ as your Saviour?

Also, you are aware, I guess, that many people (myself included) believe that Almighty God, who created the universe, also has protected His Word down thru the ages and preserved it for those who sincerely seek Him?

[BrentL]

thats easy. someone who believes IN something wants to share that. you are sharing DISBELIEF. your approach is a negative. You have peppered the forum with threads and they all have the same theme, to disprove something others hold dear.

I get sucked into doing that sometimes as well. I try to show people why socialism is so deadly. a better approach would be to hold up a light, not to try to tear down others. O well, I am still learning.

[wax]

Sui- [2] Jesus and his immediate followers were Pharisees.

Wax- While I myself have always had a problem with Paul and his influence in scripture I must point out that the above statement has been extremely weakened over time.

As the texts discovered at Qum'ran have been released it has become more and more certain that Jesus was Essenic in many ways (his training at least).
The Dead Sea Scrolls have provided great insight in the difference between John/Jesus and the ruling Jews of the time.

The essenic approach concerning the "Sons of Darkness/Sons of light" can not be overlooked concerning the teaching on the mount and of course the direct quotes from earlier Essenic text concerning "This is my body, shed for you. This is my blood shed for you" clearly shown in the Dead Sea Scrolls as refering to two individuals who are not Jesus (which I will not go into because I will be attacked as a heretic and anti-Christian which I am not) explains the Biblical passages concerning a massive exodus of the followers of Jesus prior to his execution.

There are some passages attributed to Paul which make no logical sense when read against the text attributed to Jesus's own words.
Paul rails against women speaking in church and declares that any man with long hair must be condemned while Jesus made it quite clear that sex and appearance means little or nothing to God.
Paul condemns circumcism when Jesus himself was obviously circumcised but that opens a whole other set of potential problems.

None of this of course means anything concerning faith because Jesus himself released any questions by stating, "All things hidden shall be revealed."

[hillsidedigger]

Paul and his partner in crime, Peter, were the founders of Pauliniism which has been passed off as Christianity for close to 2 thousand years.

John the Revelator lived past the lives of Peter and Paul and Revelations may be about the only credible book in the entire Bible and in those mere 17 or so pages is contained all that is needed to be known. I like James also.

[gardenfay]

I accepted Jesus Christ as my Saviour and was baptized back in 1978. *I began my research into the historical background of the bible and christianity in 1987 trying to prove that it was in fact 'the truth'. *

You posted, ". . . *Almighty God, who created the universe, also has protected His Word down thru the ages and preserved it for those who sincerely seek Him?"

Sorry but the historical facts simply don't bear your statement out -- the text of your bible has been altered over the centuries. *The oldest complete text of the New Testament dates to the 4th or 5th century -- anything further back than that is only in fragments. *The canon of the bible wasn't even decided until the late 4th century -- the early christian communities all had different 'scriptures' that they considered to be inspired of god. *So unless you actually research the historical facts on how we came to have the bible there is no basis for statement other than your faith.


Well, as your beliefs about the Bible and its authenticity have changed, what do you believe about God now? Do you think He exists?

your statement about there being no basis other than my faith - I am okay with that. I don't really believe it; but if you do and even if it were to be proved to me personally, it really doesn't bother me. I have a personal relationship with Christ Jesus. I know He and God exist. After you were saved; did you never feel that? His presence; or maybe you believe now that you just wanted to believe you could feel His presence back then?

[gardenfay]

I believe that anything and everything that has happened to the Word of God, He has allowed. I have faith in Him; so I am okay with it.

As your beliefs about the Bible and its authenticity have changed, what do you believe about God now?
Do you think He exists?

[flatwater]

Dog-gon-it the devil won that one.
Flatwater

[gardenfay]

So you now believe, since there is no God, that you were never saved?

[rAcErRicK]

3000 books ?? Yet you cannot even comprehend the first. I have 6 and 8 year old grandchildren that know the old testament speaks many times of The Son Of Gods coming. How do you propose to stir up enough dust to cover that up ? The very groundwork for the new, was layed in the old. Kindergarteners know that.

Not an arguement - FACT. On point or off. Go back and read it again. You still get an F. Maybe 4000 books would help ? More books !

[gardenfay]

Do you understand the difference between an agnostic and an atheist gardenfay?


Yea, i think i do (thanks for asking though); but what I am curious about is this: do you now believe that you just imagined feeling God's presence - or do you think you never felt it?

[dwh]

3000 books ?? Yet you cannot even comprehend the first. I have 6 and 8 year old grandchildren that know the old testament speaks many times of The Son Of Gods coming. How do you propose to stir up enough dust to cover that up ? The very groundwork for the new, was layed in the old. *Kindergarteners know that.

Not an arguement - FACT. *On point or off. Go back and read it again. You still get an F. *Maybe 4000 books would help ? More books ! *

I have a prophecy. My next post will contain the number 12.

[dwh]

12

And it came to be as foretold by the prophet dwh.

Duh!

I'm sorry; a book doesn't prove itself right by claiming to be. Not an arguement - FACT. On point or off. Go back and read it again.

I bet your kindergartners could tell you this if you'd stop brainwashing them and let them think for themselves. But hey, raise a child in the way he should go, eh?

[bookwormom]

I bought the book a few years ago. (for Cynthia) so you think the author is totally objective and has no ax to grind?

Are you a convert to Judaism? Just curious.