Shama-zen-christianism

[clarkshomestead]

I do not have a religion though I was raised Baptist/Episciplian. What I do have is beliefs, which is to say I dont know how to reach Heaven, Valhala, Nirvahna or any other place of total enlightenment. I know that phisicaly we become like it is said, ashes to ashes dust to dust part of the Earth again. That suits me fine. If I may quote Bob Marley " ...Most people think Great God will come from the sky, take away everything and make everybody feel high, But if you know what life is worth, you will look for yours on Earth, so now you see the light, Stand up for your rights!" I believe that IF there is a here after then you will not be judged by how much money you made or how many times you said the F word but what you did to help yourself and your neighbor without expecting payment. Your neighbor including all the animals that are near you. I AM NOT A VEGETARIAN ! I raise rabbits for meat but I give them the best 12 weeks I can till I kill and eat them. That is the way of an omnivoure. Our roll here is to leave a spot better than we found it. If you can change the world through protest and activism then more power to ya! I plan to leave the world better by teaching my children the ways I believe and doing as much as I can to enrich the earth around me (my garden) with all the things it needs to sustain life for whatever weed takes over. I mean realy what can you do? Our lives are short, but my Grandmother and Grandfather were huge influences on who I am and positive for the most part. I believe whole hartedly in the circle of life and in finding peace and acceptance in whatever you are doing. I also believe in the words of Christ and Ghandi and Martin King and Roosavelt and Henry David Thoreau. I think for info on how to treat humans, learn from those who speak on the subject and for info on peace learn from those who spend their time speaking on it and always make your own decisions. Peace love and happiness

[gardenfay]

So, have you been taught (at least in the Baptist church- i wouldn't know for sure about the Episcopalian) what the Bible says about salvation and accepting the sacrifice that Christ made for us on the cross?

[Catalpa]

The universe did not come into being by accident.

The circle of life on earth ends only in death.

Eternal life is the free gift of God through Jesus Christ His Son. His Son, not to be confused with human philosophers, however wise they may seem to be.

[clarkshomestead]

I really don't want to get into Bible bashing or thumping here. But as I'm sure you have heard people argue a thousand times it is a book writen by men to controll other men and themselves. It is full of wonderfull stories, parables, historic events and insight into the human condition. I like the King James version, but it IS a VERSION. It has been added to, deleted from and generaly edited from the actual ancient texts that it was DIRIVED from. As I always say I like the words that it says, the apostles said, Jesus said. I've never met 12 people in the short time I have been alive that would not stretch the truth a little bit to help themselves and their ideals be held aloft. Now take the small stretches they may have added and multiply it by the countless scholars and rulers with their own agendas that dipped their pen in the holy ink it was writen in. Maybe just maybe Jesus was more like Ghandi and less like an iluminated being from the loins of an omnipotent King. maybe he never claimed to be the son of God at all... Who realy knows. I like to believe that his honesty was slandered by those who actualy lived after him and thought it was the only way to keep his spirit alive. I've read that he gave his life to wash away the sins of the poor sinners, but where is that writen in red? I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm saying you know exactly what I do... Only what you've read and been told. I am willing to say the only thing I know is that I don't know. Being of rational mind, it is my nature as it is yours, to doubt. Now doubt is a natural and healthy thing that has helped all things survive the troubles that the world throws at us. Now FAITH, well that word is strictly human and more than that it is a word that has become synonomous with religion. Now I cant even begin to express this Idea as well as Mark Twain, have you ever read 'Letters From the Earth'? Google it. He makes the point that in religion ( whatever your FAITH may be) it teaches you to go against so many things that are what make us human. I realy don't like to get into these discussions and I would have never posted the first post but I think I was having a few beers and just wanted to rant. This will be my last post on religion you can email me some hate mail if you want, to have your say or vent or whatever. clarkshomestead@yahoo.com I hope you keep strength in your own faith and faith in your own strength. God Bless

[FirestarterKY]

I read once....
"The only thing that won't lie to you is death".
I thought that was interesting.....

I believe in my own personal Spiritual experiences.
I've had experiences with Angels, Jesus, a Monk, the Earth, a star, Indians and
many more.....I believe them all and they all live in harmony within me.
Is'nt that cool!?

A few beers....lol, nothing wrong with that!
Though, I prefer wine.

[flatwater]

There will come a day when we will all answer to God , Just make sure you have the oil for your lamp. My families lamps are filled and ready to go.
Flatwater

[bookwormom]

hi clarkshomestead,
nice of you to stop by and get something started. :)

yeah, I know, Mark Twain actually was an atheist, so was Abe Lincoln and a lot of folks you would not think it of.
that is up to them. Or rather, was.
wouldn't you agree that the numero uno question, upon which hinges a whole lot, is this: Why are we born, why are we here on planet Earth? What is the purpose of this exercise. Is it an exercise in futility?
No offence meant, but I do not agree that we are here to make this world a better place, that would be like saying we are going to school to make our classroom a better place. We are restricted to a little time and a little space. the next guy can undo the good you have done, during his little time in your former little space. (for instance, I am nursing garden number seven back to health, I hope I will. Wherever I lived, when I left there was a little piece of ground that was better than when I got there. Without fail, it never was carried on and my work was never appreciated, in most cases not even noticed and undone. I strive to do as little harm and as much good as possible. But what does that amount to? My righteousness is like filthy rags before God. Since I believe what Jesus said I think I am here to experience good and evil up close, right in my own little life, consider both, see what choice I want to make.(Rev.2, notice the keyword, "overcome") And when nip comes to tuck, it is I who is responsible for my actions, my choices etc. (just my.02 cents worth, I know there are oodles of christians who will totally disagree)'
I have studied a lot and found there is none greater, wiser than Jesus.

If I could prevail on you to look at one scripture, it would be the parable of the man who sowed good seed in his field, and at night the enemy came and sowed tares(an awful and poisonous weed that looks like wheat in it's younger stage). I think Jesus expresses a principle here that is, if you think about it, applicable to just about any situation. I am afraid if I think it means that I am of the wheat and you are one of the tares it will amount to self righteousness on my part.

maybe someone will start a thread sometime how some of the different church dogmas came about,as it is an interesting subject.

[clarkshomestead]

Firestarter I like the way you percieve things. I have had many collisions with the spiritual also. I think all of the things I have experienced are relavent to life as I understand it. I hope I am not one of the tares (bookworm) but I can't say for sure. But it is mans nature to want to believe that we are here for a higher purpose, whether it be to use our ability to better the planet where reside ( which is a thought of self righteousness in itself, since the world would be fine without us) or to learn and prepare for another place, or as the athiest would have it, we are here by chance and natural selection and our ability to ponder such things are just a by-product of our evolution. I don't know! "Since I believe what Jesus said I think I am here to experience good and evil up close, right in my own little life, consider both, see what choice I want to make." I like that and I totaly agree! As far as lamps being filled, well I can't believe that the God who made Jesus his spokes person would shun one for being a nonconformist or a free thinker. To be a good and honest man even when it is to your EARTHLY detriment is the spirit of Jesus! One thing I am, is honest, With myself and with my family and with all others whom I come in contact with. This has hurt me in the past but I am who I am and I know no other way to be. If that sounds self righteous, well maybe I am that too but I DO NOT PREACH ANYTHING I DO NOT KNOW. I will however preach the fact that I DO NOT KNOW! Thank you for your input and I do enjoy this. Hopefully not as a tare destroying your crop but possibly a weed like beggar lice, it is a nitrogen fixer that make the ground beter if properly worked in. I am no athiest, I am a friend of thinkers, clergy especialy. Ghandi said "Honest disagreement is often a good sign of progress." Thank you again for being who you are.

[theresehirko]

I think that I am the only Jewish person on the forum, but I'll throw my two cents in. Judaism teaches that you live your life as G-d commanded. "You will be holy as I am holy". Most people know about the 10 commandments but there are 613 commandments in the Bible that Jews are required to follow. Most are about how to treat your fellow man and laws regarding Sabbath, etc. G-d said that if you follow His commandments, He will bless you, and if you ignore His commandments, well you don't even want to know what will happen to you. Why concern ourselves with what will happen in the hereafter, let the hereafter take care of itself. Concern yourself with now and what you can do in this life to follow G-d's commandments and you pretty much are okay. I don't personally care what anyone else believes. If you live an ethical moral life and that includes the treatment of animals, then you're okay in my book.

[RangerRick]

Hi theresehirko,

Actually, there are only 10 commandments of God written by his own finger in stone tablets and placed inside the ark and there are another 603 ordances written in a book by Moses (The Book of The Law), Lav 23 mostly and placed on the side of the ark which deal with mostly ceremonial issues. *Most Christians believe that these ordances were nailed to the cross of Christ and are no longer applicable to us, some don't know the difference. *Just to set the record straight, the 10 commandments are still applicable. *Many folks get confused trying to determine when scripture speaks of "God's Law" and "The Book of The Law". *Actually this might make a good topic for future discussion??

;D

Rick

[clarkshomestead]

... and that is a point that drives me to some of my "beliefs", thats where "-ISMS" start to complicate things and ALL ARE RIGHT IN MY BOOK! as long as you treat your fellow man and as Theres put it *all living thngs as you would be treated, then the little things don't matter... Untill you say I must observe these certain cerimonial rituals or believe that , believing that this certain person is your savior and the only path to a better place. *My thing is those cerimonies are ISM at its best! *The idea that 1 persons sacrifice of his life will save us from all our transgressions, when so many soldiers all over the world give the same price for the Earthly freedom of others is insane and a cheap way out of being righteous yourself! *I'll never ask for forgivness! I will stand trial for the evil I have done in my youth and strive to do no more evil with no promise of redemption! *What did Jesus mean on the cross when he said " Oh Father why hast thou forsaken me?" ??? *Did he not know the plan?? If not is it really a personal sacrifice if you don't understand yourself why you are dying? *This last part please don't mistake for blasphemy, its only a question I have yet to find a suitable answer for. *With Judaism, that is one religion I have regretably spent very little time studying. *I guess because I read the Old Testament and thought that was all there was to it... My apologies Theres! *What is the book you guys use ( I feel like a complete idiot here)? I have read the Koran, the Bible and the Dhamapada. *I have never had any Jewish friends. *I don't know why, just not many in the south I guess. I promise I'm not a NAZI! My email is clarkshomestead@yahoo.com send me some of your foundations other than the old testament. *When I think Jew I think Sienfeld not Shylock!

[suijurisfreeman]

... and that is a point that drives me to some of my "beliefs", thats where "-ISMS" start to complicate things and ALL ARE RIGHT IN MY BOOK! as long as you treat your fellow man and as Theres put it *all living thngs as you would be treated, then the little things don't matter... Untill you say I must observe these certain cerimonial rituals or believe that , believing that this certain person is your savior and the only path to a better place. *My thing is those cerimonies are ISM at its best! *The idea that 1 persons sacrifice of his life will save us from all our transgressions, when so many soldiers all over the world give the same price for the Earthly freedom of others is insane and a cheap way out of being righteous yourself! *I'll never ask for forgivness! I will stand trial for the evil I have done in my youth and strive to do no more evil with no promise of redemption! *What did Jesus mean on the cross when he said " Oh Father why hast thou forsaken me?" ??? *Did he not know the plan?? If not is it really a personal sacrifice if you don't understand yourself why you are dying? *This last part please don't mistake for blasphemy, its only a question I have yet to find a suitable answer for. *With Judaism, that is one religion I have regretably spent very little time studying. *I guess because I read the Old Testament and thought that was all there was to it... My apologies Theres! *What is the book you guys use ( I feel like a complete idiot here)? I have read the Koran, the Bible and the Dhamapada. *I have never had any Jewish friends. *I don't know why, just not many in the south I guess. I promise I'm not a NAZI! My email is clarkshomestead@yahoo.com send me some of your foundations other than the old testament. *When I think Jew I think Sienfeld not Shylock!

Based on the extensive research that I did back in 1987-1990 on the Jesus movement Jesus consider himself the Jewish Messiah *-- that he would be used by God to free the Jewish people from the tyranny of Rome. *Why did he say, "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me"? *To me it is cyrstal clear, he had gone through the physical motions of starting a revolution against the Roman occupation (he had expected God to send legions of angels to help), his attempt failed, he was being crucified and apparently stated, "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?" *Of course he spoke those words in Aramaic not King James English.
As I've stated before, the Jesus movement did not happened in a vacuum. *You cannot understand him without understanding the historical background in Judea during that time period. *
The man Jesus was a Jewish patriot who opposed the tyranny of Rome and died the death reserved for insurrection against Rome *-- it's really just that simple!

[bookwormom]

I have studied the same subject and have come to an entirely different conclusion. Maybe because I have looked at different aspects. Jesus famous saying to give unto Cesar what is Cesar's and to God what is God's sort of sums it up. He was anything but political and repeatedly stated his kingdom is not of this world. Of course it is not.
The Bible says that Satan is the prince of this world. If you take the trouble to look and see it is very obvious that that is so.

The question is, what are we doing here, muddling along in Satan's domain?
From my studies I have learned that we are born here to have to contend with evil and to overcome it. In Deuteronomy there is a verse that says

I call heaven and Earth as a witness against you, that I have set before you good and evil, blessings and cursings...so choose

there is Jesus saying seven times in Rev.2 "to him who overcometh..." and of course there are all the admonitions to become perfect, to grow in faith, do good, to love instead of hate (fruits of the spirit) etc etc. This earth is a trying grounds, spiritual bootcamp if you will. Coming here is basically a suicide mission.

enter quote by clarkshomestead:

The idea that 1 persons sacrifice of his life will save us from all our transgressions, when so many soldiers all over the world give the same price for the Earthly freedom of others is insane and a cheap way out of being righteous yourself! I'll never ask for forgivness! I will stand trial for the evil I have done in my youth and strive to do no more evil with no promise of redemption!

you are a noble young man if I may be allowed to say so.

According to my understanding though, on our own we perish, for as the Bible says, 'ALL have sinned and come up short , and The wages of sin is death, Sin however is the transgression of God's law, concentrated into the 10 commandments, concentrated even more into you shall love God with all your heart and your neighbor like youself. Excuse me for paraphrasing.
so here we are on this suicide mission, it is essential that we have this experience, but we would never make it out alive on our own. Sooo...
God so loved the world (us) that he gave his only son that whoseover believeth in him shall not perish but have life everlasting.
The Bible also tells us that we are 'ransomed' that we are 'bought for a price'
The question is, who are we bought from? Who has dibbs on us? God did indeed totally give his son, and Jesus noticed how total this was and cried out 'why have you forsaken me'. He had to,
God could not cheat on a deal he had made with the lord of darkness.

does God want you to grovel and cower like a dog? The Bible says repent. To repent means to see the error of your ways and to turn around and walk a different path.

So, Jesus being king of king and lord of lords and blameless like a newborn lamb, his life is enough to cover the life of everyone of us.