Looking for advice and guidance!

[GoinBacktotheLand]

My DH and I are buying property in the west. It's rural, very rural, arid desert, mountains. It's all that was in our price range. Our neighbors will be various types of cattle and sheep and some coyotes, and possible pronghorn and prairie dogs.

Anyone else completely off the grid? Our closet power pole is miles and miles away, so we have to go solar or wind power. And there is spotty cell service. Just need general advice of what to do next. DH isn't too mechanically inclined, so we were thinking of a mobile home, but they aren't really set up for solar. I have seen some small cabins that would work, but would have to get someone else to build it. Advice is greatly appreciated!!

[chloe3388]

Sounds like you have started your plan, sounds exciting. There are some on the board who are off grid. I'm not so can't be much help. So just giving this a bump up so maybe the off griders won't miss it..

[madmac]

I think if I was you I would go solar. It is a little pricey to do it right and you really need to do your homework so you buy all the right stuff the first time around. Check out the post in the solar section and maybe you will find someone that can get you on track as to what to buy. Don't go with some company that claims to be able to set you up unless you know for sure they know what they are doing. If you have to you could always go with a generator for a spell, get the place setup with 12 volt as far as wiring. That way you will have most of the hard stuff done when you make the switch to solar. You have got a lot of decission to make but you will get through this. Where is your land. I live in AZ.

[kawalekm]

Hi GBTTL
Don't discount your husband's "handiness". I never built anything in my life before we bought our land. There was a roofless unfinished brick building on the land we bought and I designed and built the roof, with NO previous construction experience. The public library was a great resource. You can get lots of ideas there. If you say you can do it then you can!

From what you're describing, I think your first concern should be water. Is there a well on the property you're buying? Are there springs? What about a rainwater collection system? How much water is available per day, per week, per year? What you can do with your available water might be the most important guide to what you can do on your land.

Here's what I'd suggest. If you don't already have a drilled well, do that first. Install a solar powered well pump with about twice as much capacity of water you need. You can pump your storage tanks till full and then use the remaining daylight to charge batteries. For example, use solar panels to pump water from dawn till noon, then switch to battery charging the rest of the day. The cheapest option though is to pump water with a generator, and use solar panels to power lighter loads like lights and light appliances.

Once you are on your land, what do you want to do there? Do you want to also raise cattle, or just have the land for retirement? How much of your own food do you want grow/raise? That will help decide how much water you need. What's the soil like on the land you're buying. Desert soils are typically alkaline, but could be brought into production by the addition of acidifiers like sulfur and organic matter.

The good news is that there are lots of people here that are willing to give good advice. Post some pictures of your new land soon. It will help people with the kind of advice to provide.
Good luck,
Michael

[Suzy]

How exciting!!!! How quick do you plan to be on the land? Do you have a monetary source to get you through several months AFTER you move???

Have you made sure there are no restrictions or covenants on the land that might prevent you from building whatever kind of cabin or even putting a mobile home there???

Do you have children?

Whatever you choose I think you should plan to heat with wood....also you need to be practicing conserving energy now because if you do go solar you're going to have to be a lot more conservative than you are on the grid.

If I were you I would get every BWH anthology I could get my hands on and the two new COUNTRYSIDE anthologies as well, AND a copy of Carla Emery's book!

I interviewed a guy about solar homes a few weeks ago (the article should be on the Alabama Co-op News web site the first week in September) and he said if you are planning to go solar, even if you can't afford it all at first, at least do what you can and have everything else READY to go solar when you can afford it....in other words he said it was much much much harder and more expensive to retrofit a place for solar after it was already built!

I wish you all the happiness in the world!!!! By the way, I am currently on the grid but would be off if my husband would agree to it!

[Suzy]

Oh---and a few more things!

I lived with no electricity for almost an entire summer a few years ago. At first we were in a TINY camper and then we roughed in a house and moved a bed onto that platform and started sleeping there.

Bathing was done outside under the garden house AFTER we had a well drilled. At first we used a generator to power the well right when we needed water.

later, We usually filled the "bath tub" (an aluminum cattle trough) early in the day, then everyone took turns in the sun-warmed water that night...

Our "kitchen" was outside...it's amazing what all you can cook on a TINY grill....

I washed clothes by hand and hung them on a line stretched between two trees.

We used a tiny porta potty thingie from an old camper for our commode until we got the septic tank dug and hooked up! We were so thankful when that was done!

It was one of the hottest summers in Alabama history and I was as brown as an Indian and thin as a rail!!!! So it was VERY good for me!

[12vman]

What items do you expect to operate?

[bookwormom]

I am hesitant to chime in, though it is a topic dear to my heart. Desert, never been there, I thought nomads live there, following their herds. And I figure it gets hot and is very dry.
If I HAD TO live in a desert and build my dwelling, for sure I would go strawbale. doublethick. and I think I would rent a backhoe or the like and dig ditches to run pipe in for 'free'airconditioning. we had a thread on that, I think it is in homesteading. No matter where you homestead, water is essential. I shudder at the thought of living in a trailer in a desert. I lived in a trailer for two years in Indiana and the heat about killed me and in winter we were broke heating that thing. What will you do for shade?

we never built anything before either, and we built our strawbale house. (loadbearing walls, modified post and beam). I filled milkjugs with water from a rainbarrel and put them in the sun. In the evening, soap down good, then rinse off with the water from a jug. One jug is plenty. you need more if you have longer hair . I guess a sawdust toilet would not be practical in the desert, you likely do not have many sawmills around. Otherwise i would recommend a sawdust toilet. we have used ours now for five years and my roses and bushes are doing great. we want to get off grid too, and we are as dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to the technicalities of going solar.

[GoinBacktotheLand]

We are limited to 1800 gallons of water per day. And as far as appliances, I figure a fridge, lights, laptop, tv/dvd, maybe a swamp cooler. I haven't had a microwave for 4 years now, so I know I don't need one of those. Laundry can be done by hand and I know many ladies that already do that just to save money. We would obviously have to have a pump on the well. But could also have a small wind mill.

I would like to be able to have a few head of cattle, a couple goats and chickens. And a big garden. Work isn't really an issue because I am able to commute and have an in demand job as does my husband. And since we have no children, it's best to do it know I figure.

[12vman]

We are limited to 1800 gallons of water per day.

WOW!! That much could almost last me 6-7- months! How are you "limited" to this amount?

If you are just starting out, I'd suggest investing into a nice generator of some sort around the 5kw size. It can and will come in handy many times until you get yourself settled. It can be used to back up your batteries, operate a washing machine, pull water from a well to an above ground storage tank, operate hand tools, ect.

As stated above, if you are going to go with an alternative method of power, you must make a plan and be as conservative as possible to avoid putting big bucks into a system to cover everything. One of the larger loads that you mention is the fridge. There are refrigerators that will do the job with much less power usage than a standard unit that the big box stores sell. A Sunfrost (http://www.sunfrost.com/) comes to mind. Kinda pricey but it will save you money in the long run when trying to support a standard non-energy efficient fridge with solar panels or whatever.

A mobile home CAN be used with solar power. The only thing is that all of the 220 volt stuff will be history. The breaker box can be wired for total 110 volts. I've done it before. An inverter can be connected to the breaker box to supply the existing wiring. All of the ground fault outlets need to be replaced with standard outlets and you're good to go. (Inverters don't like ground fault protection stuff)

Good luck in your venture. Keep us posted.. ;)
~Don

[bookwormom]

1800 gallons a day? you did not add an extra zero by mistake? well, knock me over with a feather. Must be a very good well.

[machinemaker]

you might want ot look at the "Earthship" books. they were designed to be built without a great deal of skilled labor, can be totally passively heated and cooled, includes being off grid, and have a lot of planning and good advice. You don't have to use all of reynolds ideas, but it is a good self suffient idea.
kent

[GoinBacktotheLand]

I thought 1800 was a lot too, but it has something to do with commercial farming and the way BLM's land is or something.

[Catalpa]

Oh, that makes more sense...I was really confused about the 1800 gallons. Sounds like there's a limit on the high capacity withdrawal wells that would be used for irrigation or cattle operations.

You won't need anywhere near that amount for a homestead. I don't know that much about arid areas, but even here in Michigan we have areas where it's very difficult to get a good well. A lot of people have gone to a timed pump system. A timer is set up to turn on the well pump and pump it for a designated length of time, usually about half of the time it would take the run the well dry. Then the pump kicks off and waits for the well to recharge before turning on again. The water is pumped to large holding tanks in the basement or garage. Another small pump and the pressure tank are installed after the holding tanks, and provide pressurized water to the home.

It works well, since the tanks allow a holding capacity above and beyond the production capacity of the well, and the well is pumped only to keep the tanks topped off. The hard part is being patient during the initial filling of the tanks.

The bad part for you is that this kind of system requires electricity and will probably require a generator. I've been doing some reading and research, and it seems that a deep well submersible pump pulls more power than is practical to provide by wind or solar.

It's exiciting to have your land, especially so far out and remote. It sounds beautiful. Good luck with your plans!

Cat.

[GoinBacktotheLand]

I actually live in MI now. As you may know our economy is in the pits with no signs of recovery. That has been the case for the past 20 years though.

We had well water here for about a year. It was awful. Ilb of minerals per gallon of water. I was forever cleaning our tub. We weren't able to have a water softener because we just had an old trailer at the time, but I was so sick from it. Between that and black mold in the trailer I have tons of medical bills now. I can't imagine anywhere in the US having worse water.

As of today I have switched my 4 month old kitten to feline pine litter to try and help with homesteading. ;D He should really do his part to help too. He can make mulch.

[Catalpa]

It all depends on where in Michigan you are. We actually are one of the better states for availability and quality of well water. I've talked to drillers who have worked in other states, like Arizona, where they have to drill over a thousand feet just to get a little water. With most of Michigan it's rare to go over 300 ft.

We do have hard water, in some places so hard it clinks when it hits the sink, but at least it's water. It's a shame that you couldn't use a water softener, but even hard water isn't bad for you, it's just aesthetically displeasing, and a problem for fixtures and plumbing. City water, with it's residual chlorine and added flouride is much worse for a body.

Mycotoxins are nasty critters, and can make you sick for a long time. Hope you're feeling better.

When are you moving to your land? Have you had a well drilled yet? Do you have any info on how deep you'll have to go?

There's a lot of good info on these boards. You'll want to read up on everything from how Don has wired his place to use solar, to building a good chicken coop that will protect your flock from the local coyotes.

Have fun!

[Sarah]

GoingBackToTheLand,

Good advice given, but let me add a tidbit.

When designing the public buildings of this enclave, while they had the actual code books, they mainly used the 'code-check' series. *These are available in Lowes and Home Depot, about $20 each. *codecheck.com. *These are 'plastic' 'flip' spiral bound texts. *The electric (which includes PV/Solar), and House were worn out. *That should give you an idea of how much they were used.

BTW: The latest edition of Electric (#5) has some typos in it. *I know as one of our masters was handed an updated copy (updated to 2008 NEC), and he sent them a blistering letter. *By the time you see this, the new version should already be available, so keep an eye out for that update.

I would also like to invite you over to the Librum. *I bet there are some things you will need here.

Sarah

[silvergramma]

i'd go with straw bale building,, cheaper more economical.. insulation factor is unreal.... will prolly be more fun than anything else unless you plan on building an earthship but the labor on those are intensive good luck

[huckelberry]

i been off the grid half my life,dont understand the problem...fridge is propane,cook stove too,also got a wood cook stove,got a small generator for power tools an chargin batteries....haul water...can, you spell...outhouse...this aint rocket science folks,last place was in alaska...californicators lookin ta buy...im still laughin.. no kiddin asked..whats under the outhouse....huck

[LobsterPond]

I just read about a Montana couple who went out to live "their dream" off the grid and their first winter - only the guy made it and a few dogs.

DO YOUR HOMEWORK FIRST.

[Anon001]

I just read about a Montana couple who went out to live "their dream" off the grid and their first winter - only the guy made it and a few dogs.

DO YOUR HOMEWORK FIRST.

It seems to me that is what they are doing by asking their questions...right?