Algae and biofuels. Anyone working with them

[chrisser]

Been doing some web research on alternative energy sources. Algae seems to be fairly interesting.

Apparently the lipid yields per acre for some algaes far exceed oil production for any other oil crop. Also, dried algae can be used as a source for biomass - either burned directly for heat, or gassified.

Lots of options, depending on the algae - the oil can be used directly as a feedstock for biodiesel. Gassified biomass can also be converted to biodiesel, or used as a producer gas, or turned into Methanol or DME.

Also can use some algae to feed livestock.

In theory, if you burned whatever fuel produced in a stationary engine, you could pump the exhaust back through to the original algae pond to feed the next crop.

Really difficult to find any decent detailed info though. Seems like the varieties of algae alone are mind-boggling and the harvesting is so variable and unresearched that yields are nearly impossible to predict. No one's really turning out algoil biodiesel in quantity yet, there's no info on BTUs of the resulting biomass (before or after oil extraction).

It seems like there might be something to all this, but its really an uphill battle trying to figure it out.

[JAK]

You still need to get energy from the sun at some point in the process, so its a matter of efficient land use, and how the process fits within other processes such as waste management and energy recovery.

[chrisser]

You still need to get energy from the sun at some point in the process, so its a matter of efficient land use, and how the process fits within other processes such as waste management and energy recovery.

Yep. Unfortuantely, its difficult to find any hard data to make an evaluation. Algae has some advantages over other crops if the environment is controlled, but getting the energy out is difficult and dealing with the waste for some is an even larger problem.

Unfortunately, the variations that grow rapidly tend to keep the oil within their cells, necessitating killing them and getting the oil out. The ones that excrete usable compounds don't grow very fast.

Still, if integrated into a system, such as on a farm, where the waste can be recycled back in, it might be workable. Depends on how useful the byproducts are. On a farm, biodiesel would be very useful to run equipment and that appears to be very doable. On a small scale, if the alge is producing something like crude, then you're still stuck with the necessity of refining it.

[johnjmw]

Have you come across any reference to the total energy cost of these technologies? I keep hearing how alcohol from corn is not as cost effective as originally projected. I wonder at the cost of of these processes. I've seen so little information on them other than they are out there.
John

[kawalekm]

Have you come across any reference to the total energy cost of these technologies? I keep hearing how alcohol from corn is not as cost effective as originally projected. I wonder at the cost of of these processes. I've seen so little information on them other than they are out there.
John
My hope is that these technologies be integrated into the energy systems we already have in place. Instead of expensive scrubbers on top of our coal fired power plants, have that exhaust diverted to algal growth pools. Instead of having cooling towers, use that heat to make ethanol or biodiesel. Instead of letting this waste and heat go up the smokestack we should be utilizing it as a resource. Kill two birds with one stone. Get rid of the waste and make it pay for itself at the same time.
Michael

[johnjmw]

Combining them would be a great way to go. *The hard part is how far do you go with recycling the waste to create more useful products. *I have read (where slips me right now) of sewage treatment using water water hyacinth, harvesting the water hyacinth to biodigest for Methane, the waste can be compost or used in other ways. *The Methane is used to generate electricity to run the plant and sell the extra. *The heat from the generators is used to heat the sewage for optimum plant growth. *There could also be a secondary use for the excess heat that was not mentioned.
* * I think the issues with most large scale systems is lack of vision with regulators. *If it is not a tried and true Fed approved system they will not back it.
* * I'd like to see at least small scale testing on recovering the the waste and heat on those smoke stacks too. *Just think how much pollution this could "scrub" out of the atmosphere at a cost savings while using the residue created.
Have you heard of anyone doing anything along this line.
John

[Curbie]

In my view, keeping on eye on the utility-scale commercial efforts can be real helpful as an indicator for what’s possible on a home-scale. The utility-scale commercial folks seem to be broken into two camps on algae, the raceway camp and photo-bio-reactor camp,
both camps have pros and cons. NREL seems to be advocating raceways, Europe seems to advocating photo-bio-reactor.

The best research I found comes from utility-scale commercial start-ups who post a lot of data in an effort to attract investors, if they’re posting cheese data they won’t attract investors and their web-site just dry-up and blow away, if their data is sound, they’ll find investors and that first thing they do to secure their investment is replace the data with sales hype, but the web-site stays up.

I let the start-up capital do the research and the investor’s researchers prove the data, I just squirrel way these web-sites and wait to see what the investor market thinks of the idea, then run the numbers on the winners to see what’s there.

There may be potential for bio-fuels in home-scale algae, but don’t see clear path as things stand, the idea is just too new, also I am considering algae for bio-mass for compost (fertilizer), I do see a clear past there.

Curbie

[Curbie]

Bio-fuels…

I like alternative energy ideas that are tried and true with decades of successful experience behind them ethanol as a bio-fuel is one such idea, there has been DIY folks working with growing fuel crops to produce ethanol for decades and they’ve published free information all over the net on growing feed crops, fermentation, stills, distillation, and converting I.C.E. to run on ethanol.

I’m not as fond of Bio-Diesel, which is produced with vegetable oil, methanol, and lye (commonly Sodium hydroxide). You can make Bio-Diesel with completely home grown/made additives by replacing the methanol (commonly a fossil-fuel product) with ethanol and replacing Sodium hydroxide (lye) with Potassium hydroxide (easily made from wood ash).

You can grow the feed crops for Bio-Diesel, but you’ll need both oil and ethanol and in my opinion, since you need to produce ethanol for Bio-Diesel anyway it’s a lot less work to skip the oil and bio-Diesel processing steps and run the ethanol directly. A further consideration is the initial cost, rebuild/repair/conversion, and availability of small diesel vs. small gasoline engines.

Curbie

[tufhelp]

There was a flourish of information regarding oil from algae a while back - 9-12 months or so, but nothing since that I can find.

My suposition at this point is that there isn't any profit motive involved as of yet, therefore there are no plants producing yet... That seems to drive the process.

Like most alternative energy sources, not very practical, expensive, and no profit to speak of...

[oeb]

Lots of major oil muscle is gearing up in this field. For example Exxon-Mobil's recent $600-million commitment joining BP and others already into it. See link for sketchy details:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/exxon-mobil-lays-out-600-million-for-algae-fuels

[Curbie]

Have you come across any reference to the total energy cost of these technologies? I keep hearing how alcohol from corn is not as cost effective as originally projected. I wonder at the cost of of these processes. I've seen so little information on them other than they are out there.
John
There seems to be two types of information about alcohol (ethanol) production from corn political and technical. There is a ton of political information biased by ones opinion of government subsidies and a lot less technical information void of political bias. I only pay attention to commercial-scale efforts for technical information that can be applied to home scale operations.

There is a ton a ethanol production information published for home-scale ethanol operations google “homemade ethanol fuel” there is enough good free information out there to avoid buying any books on the topic, although in my opinion the information shouldn’t be taken at “face” value and should be cross-check against other sources. One of the better free publications in my opinion is here:
http://www.journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/meCh1.html

The problems with home-scale ethanol for fuel has to do with the energy required for plowing, planting, harvesting and pre-processing of fuel crops, also the heat energy required for the fermentation (~145˚F) and distillation (~185˚F) processes. The fermentation temperature is well within the range of solar collectors and the distillation temperature is just outside the upper average temperature requiring a boost.

The good this about using heat form solar collectors is timing, if you use solar collectors for space heat for your home you won’t need the heat collector produce during the summer and that heat can be used for other things like ethanol fermentation and distillation. Consider also that collector produce far greater quantities of heat in the summer at a time when most solar heating user turn their systems off.

I tend to focus on things that are well documented with have decades of practical experience behind them both solar thermal and ethanol are two such things.

Curbie

[Anon001]

How long has ethanol been produced in our country? For several decades to say the least.... Ethanol is nothing more than moonshine. However, there are very strict regulations in regard to ethanol production both for commercial use and home use. Even for home use the government restrictions make it a pain.

Their are a couple problems with ethanol. The majority of the buzz occurred when corn was relatively cheap. As the cost of oil and gasoline went up it made ethanol more and more attractive. However, with ethanol as part of the fuel, it can reduce fuel economy by 25%. Therefore; there has to be a large enough gap in the price of corn, ethanol versus non-ethanol fuel to make it economical. Today, the price of corn being higher keeps the cost of ethanol near the same as the cost of non-ethanol fuel. Therefore, it costs much more to burn ethanol when you consider the 25% loss.

I would imagine that the algae follows a similar path. The cost of production has to remain low enough to make it worthwhile. I don't think it is profitable or there would have been much much more hype about it as well as actual large scale production by now.

[Curbie]

The fuel companies seem to be doing just fine, mostly due to subsidies and the end of fossil fuel reserves. I’m not terribly focused on commercial-scale ethanol OTHER than what’s there that is scaleable to home-sized use, my interest in isn’t commercial it’s real life problems which always leads me to the question:

If not this, than what?

Sure, there obstacles to solving any problem, some people view obstacles as barriers but that’s for them, in my view there are always options and if there is a better home-scale solution to an empty gas tank, I’m all ears.

Algae:
Algae for fuel is just too new for me to draw much of a conclusion based on published materials, NREL seems to advocate raceways and Europe seems to advocate photo-bio-reactors, I think only time will sort that out, but I have a pretty strong feeling that if there is any potential for home-scale algae it will be with DIY raceways due to cost of DIY photo-bio-reactor (scientific gibberish for fish-tank for algae).

Common strains of oil producing Algae:
Strain (oil), Lipid Content, Growth Medium
Chlamidomonas reinhardi, 21%, Soil/water
Chlamidomonas moewusii, 14%, Soil/water
Dunaliela salina, 15%, Seawater
Chorella pyrenoidiosa, 2%, Freshwater
Nannaochloropsis, 21%, Soil/seawater
coccolithophora, 12%, Soil/Seawater
Chlorella protothecoides, 14% , Soil/seawater
Chorella minutissima, 44%, Seawater
Porhyriduim, 10%, Soil/water
Tetraselmis, 45.7%, Seawater
Isochrysis galbana, 7%, Soil/Seawater
Pleurochrysis carterae, 21.9%, Soil/seawater

Can be purchased here:
http://www.utex.org/

Curbie