Seduction of Christians

[libertylover]

Former Bush aide David Kuo explains why he wrote his controversial book critiquing the White House’s faith-based initiative—and why evangelicals should take a two-year ‘fast’ from politics.

By Richard Wolffe
Newsweek
Updated: 3:48 p.m. CT Oct 16, 2006

Oct. 16, 2006 - David Kuo was a rising star among social conservatives: he wrote speeches for Ralph Reed, served as a policy adviser to John Ashcroft and counted Bill Bennett as his mentor. He joined the Bush campaign in 1998 and rose to become second in command at the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives.

But he quickly grew disillusioned with the Bush White House for what he saw as its political manipulation of Christian groups—and the failure to fund a policy that the president portrays as his personal priority. His new book, “Tempting Faith: An Inside Story of Political Seduction” (Free Press), is a tell-all book dissing the administration’s dealings with social conservatives. Officially released today, it has left the White House struggling to defend its record, as well as its relationship with evangelicals. NEWSWEEK's Richard Wolffe spoke to Kuo about his “profoundly personal” memoir.

Read interview:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15292065/site/newsweek/

[Tightwad]

When the Bush family machine stole the 2000 election......
the public sat silent.
When our constitutional rights were erased by the Patriot act......
the public sat silent.
When the lies about Iraq were discovered.....
the public sat silent
When the Bush family machine stole the 2004 election.....
the public sat silent

The list goes on almost forever.

What is amazing is that many insiders were sickened by what
they knew and finally wrote a book about it to "warn" the public.
But the public is still silent.

All that seems to happening is that the public is cowering in fear of
risking anything on a personal level to call the Bush agenda & the
religious right/neocons to account for the crimes against the American
people. The authors sell a lot of books but unless these books can
be turned into action then it's all a sham.

Vietnam was bad but the crimes of the Bush agenda machine make
Vietnam look like a cake walk.

Oh yes, get ready for Jeb Bush in 2008. The wheels are already
turning to steal an election for ol' Jebbie boy.

And the beat goes on............

[alma]

I've watched this process for years, and it sickens me that the mob mentality has taken over america, and silenced just enough people for tyranny to come in on wool soft sandals like a poet once said.

When an authority figure, like a teacher, for instance, puts his or her stamp of approval or disaproval on a person, the others will do the same.

It is the same for a big, bad bully. Whatever he says is LAW, and no one is going to risk taking a hit by him, so brute power prevails.

It has always been sad to see so many perfectly good people turn over their lives to this would-be tyrant, would-be modern day emperor like in the rome of old.

The people, then, did nothing but "fiddle" around while rome burned, the same.

The bible says that even the elite will be fooled and it will begin in their own churches, or some such thing.

What seems to motivate people is "what am i gonna GET if i DO, and what's gonna get ME if i DON'T."

I've been watching about all of this on t.v. recently, and know that it is essently true, sad to say.

They are master of garnering the black vote, also, and now i just wonder about the mexican vote, as he has served so well the illegals and their american legals who harbor them, and the bosses who hired them dirt cheap.

The out sourcing of our jobs to american corporations abroad, and the invasion of illegal aliens is bringing american labor to it's knees.

--and all the more are we silenced in the presence of this master manipulater. love, alma

[Toad_Sticker]

vote third party
see my sig line
TS

[CarolAnn]

Sing it with me:

"Trust and obey
For there's no other way
To be happy in . . . "

Well, the last part was "happy in Jesus" - but when we teach our little children to "Trust and obey" we are telling them to shut down their brains, and that's exactly why Christians are such easy prey for this type of manipulation.

It started with shearing the sheep - but now that they're sheared, they're being lead to the slaughter, and being nice obedient sheep - off they go without a word.

[Tightwad]

vote third party
see my sig line
TS

Toad, sadly NO third party will ever take the presidency due to the
electoral collage. That means that until the electoral collage is
removed America will NEVER truly elect any president.

Do you know who (or how they get the job) your electoral collage
members are?? It's a true "good ol'boys" job.........

However.......I do agree that a third party might give the people a
REAL choice.

[Toad_Sticker]

the electoral college is one of the foundations of our republic............removing it will only hasten our descent into socialist democracy.
TS

[Faye]

Before he was "elected" the first time, I told everyone who would listen that he was not what he claimed to be and was just using the christian right to get what he wanted and that he was a war monger. Nobody believed me then. They do now.

[Tightwad]

the electoral college is one of the foundations of our republic............removing it will only hasten our descent into *socialist democracy.
TS

True, it is part of the original foundation. However, The true reason for
it's existence has been lost over time. Our founding fathers knew that
most of the voting public of the time were largely illiterate. To prevent
the highest office from falling into uneducated hands the college
(that at the time consisted of ONLY fully educated people) came
into being.

So as can be seen that today it's possible that the need for the college
no longer exist except to ensure that only members of the two
party system be allowed to assume the presidency. That means.....

NO third party candidate will ever be president.

[Toad_Sticker]

I dissagree fully
TS

[jim]

I agree with TS. The Electoral College was founded to keep the likes of an Adloph Hitler from holding the Presidency. During the days of the FF, literacy was close to 98%, a lot better than now. If the EC is so bad, why are the Dhimmycrats frothing at the mouth to get rid of it?

TW, you are a victim of the liberals. I don't like Bush, and didn't like his father either, and I do wish we could get a 3rd party in also.

jim

[Tightwad]

I dissagree fully
TS

In fairness......

What EXACTLY do*you disagree with??

[Toad_Sticker]

Our founding fathers knew that
most of the voting public of the time were largely illiterate. To prevent
the highest office from falling into uneducated hands the college
(that at the time consisted of ONLY fully educated people) came
into being.

So as can be seen that today it's possible that the need for the college
no longer exist except to ensure that only members of the two
party system be allowed to assume the presidency. That means.....

NO third party candidate will ever be president.
That
TS

[Tightwad]

I agree with TS. The Electoral College was founded to keep the likes of an Adloph Hitler from holding the Presidency. During the days of the FF, literacy was close to 98%, a lot better than now. If the EC is so bad, why are the Dhimmycrats frothing at the mouth to get rid of it?

TW, you are a victim of the liberals. I don't like Bush, and didn't like his father either, and I do wish we could get a 3rd party in also.

jim

Chuckle ::) Since TS really didn't state a postion what are you
agreeing with?? He was just dropping bomblets to cornfuse things.

BTW....I'm not a victim of the "liberals" at all. I'm an independent
that holds no loyalty to the religous right or the crazed left.

[Toad_Sticker]

the electoral college is one of the foundations of our republic............removing it will only hasten our descent into *socialist democracy.
TS
This looks like a statement to me
TS

[scottie12]

liberty ;
I have a really hard time believing that someone so close to all these rotten evil ppl, can just have a change of heart and
start acting like a decent human being .
It all sounds scripted to me .
Maybe this book is just the bush way of taking ownership of the process of blaming themselves - preemptive propaganda , if you will!

[libertylover]

scottie explain more of your theory please...
I'm listening....what you mean when you say,

Maybe this book is just the bush way of taking ownership of the process of blaming themselves - preemptive propaganda , if you will

[libertylover]

ts..the electors are voted at the party
convention, as you well know.
In some states the the total electors are
an odd number. Let's give a number of
9 for said state. Wouldn't than mean
4 for democrats and 4 republicans. What
about the odd 1 elector that totals 9. Is
it for the republican or democrat?

See just how many odd numbers there are
for various states. This comes from the
Natinal Archives.

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/calculator.html

[junkyardblacksmith]

As far as I am concerned, the electoral college is an atrocious failure for the public interest, and has been used throughout history as an engine by big government pimps to nullify the vote of the american public.

At bare minimum it needs to be heavily overhauled.

Many during founding times where horrified by the concept of the electoral college, and fought against it; chief among them, Thomas Jefferson, who considered it the biggest error in the constitution.

It should taken into consideration that the larger part of support for the electoral college came from wealthy federalist whores who favored a powerful central goverment. They openly sought to put the majority of political power into the hands of a few rich merchants, lawyers, judges, clergy, ect.; an obvious attempt to create an american aristocracy.

[Eagle]

Folks,

Just start acting like you own this country in front of you,
in real time...as though it were happening right in your own backyard...because it is!

You own this country...with heart, soul, mind and spirit!

Speak up and act out now.

All politics as we know it is going, going...gone!

For the first time in history the blood and guts of a nation are getting the guts to end it all.

We CAN govern Ourselves...
what they deceitfully created is NOT needed!

[scottie12]

scottie explain more of your theory please...
I'm listening....what you mean when you say,

Maybe this book is just the bush way of taking ownership of the process of blaming themselves - preemptive propaganda , if you will


scott says -well yes I will explain , even though you never return that civilty. I'm not saying that this has to be the case here , but considering the nature of these ppl , it would be my first guess.

its very simple really : 'preemptiveness' is a concept that the bush's use regularly , even as the basis of a lie ie. Iraq war , meaning; they said we must act (invade)preemptively , before the mushroom cloud materialises.
there are many political actions that should be considered preemptive , like say , putting ppl in powerful positions i e . supreme court , cabinet and agency sec.s , that will preempt any problems there on the lower levels to protect our dear leader .
Another example of a preemptive action would be if one noticed a crack and a leak in a dam , and acted preemptively bying draining the dam and patching the crack , thereby avoiding a blow-out .
The same concept is regularly used politically to have more control forces put in place preemptively regarding a political problem that is festering and about to become public .
In this particular case , this person will probably be promoted by the media as being the ultimate expert on the matter and anything (probably the important elements )
that he dismisses will be dissmissed by the media .
I hope this helped !

[libertylover]

scottie, many times I just don't understand you
so I don't answer back.

I want us to be on the same page.

I do realize what the term preemptive
means and how it's overused.

scottie, you wrote this:
just the bush way of taking ownership of the process of blaming themselves -

This is the part I want you to example what
you mean?

Try to be nice and not be uncivil or snide with
yours remarks, please.

[scottie12]

[quote/]scottie, many times I just don't understand you
so I don't answer back.

scott says ; hi liberty , and if you dont understand me thats all the more reason to ask me for clarification .
I can't always know what the other person doesnt understand or understands better than myself , thats the point of conversational interaction ; to sort these things out and learn from each other ;
i know that I can seem and (be ) a bit "hostile sounding' at times, But I'm not so mean really - I wont bite you or anything like that.
[quote/]
I want us to be on the same page.
scott says ; We dont have to be on the same page all the time and that would be boring anyway wouldnt it ?-- in fact I'm sure we agree alot - but I would rather talk about things we dis-agree on - cuz thats where the fun is and the best prospects for enlightenment on the part of at least one of us .
[quote/]scottie, you wrote this:
just the bush way of taking ownership of the process of blaming themselves -

This is the part I want you to example what
you mean?


scott says; OK , I'll try to be more specific !?

First of all you have to agree ( in order to accept this theory) that the main-stream- media is intent and wholly complicit to serve the interests of the ruling class and thus the white house cartel !

What do I mean by'The bush-way of taking ownership of the process of blaming themselves"?

I mean that this topic (like all that reach mainstream news) will be subject to being put into an organised and exclusive framework with the intent of 'damage control'
vs ' any sort of real investigation .
Once it is determined by the conspirators what conclusions they wish the public to formulate RE; the topic , all questions that do not logically lead to that conclusion will be marginalised ,Given very little air-time , and even ridiculed if they make too much sense.
Now if someone else with an anti -bush slant (say alex jones) were to design the framework for the discussion and eliminate the bs (the mainsteam focus) different questions (rightfully so, IMO) would be asked or marginalised , leading the conversation in a more logical direction !
for example - alex might ask " is bush just using the christians ? Is he ruthlessly sociopathic? he would probably not ask if the president is just too overloaded with work to focus on the problem , but the main-stream-media will not focus on whether Bush is just using the churchians , or if he's sociopathic , but they probably will repeatedly ask 'fluff questions' like the latter one .
Its all very orwellian , i think.
So, If you agree with this , I think that you would also agree that it is in the best interest of the white house to preempt the alex jones framework (catapult the propaganda )- by pounding all the wrong questions into the minds of the public everyday, until they are bewildered and confused .
I hope this is more better !

[Gwynyvyr]

Honestly, I don't think ANYONE should follow the precepts of their religious beliefs as a method of picking their candidates.

If you follow a faith and adhere to it blindly, you are more apt to be misled by leaders of your faith.
Politicians KNOW this and then try to cozy up to all the religious leaders possible to garner more votes.

Think for yourself. Examine the candidates records, their ties to foreign powers, big business, etc. Check where they stand on issues that are important to YOU.

Break ties with any party you are affiliated with.
Vote for the person, not the party.

Get out of the flock. There are wolves there...and you might not recognize them.

[gypho]

Edited:

I pray. I think for myself. Then I vote.

gypho

[alma]

Where we gonna get all this info about "our" candidates when the "free" press is actually the propaganda machine of the powers that be?

They may seem to be of opposite persuasions at times, but make no mistake about it, they are all shaping public opinion to maintain the status quo.

--just like we have "opposite" political parties that are going to do so much for us.

We are mental klones of the first order, and will always
follow the same drummer into perdition, all the while thinking that we are doing it all for god and/or country whether we live in the east or the west.

How is it that people born in the good ole u.s.a. think so much alike while, if they were born in iraq, for instance, they would worship allah, and salute the iraqi flag, the same as we believe in our various gods and salute the american flag.

We've all been taught, the world over, WHAT to think, and not HOW to think at all, the same as our "enemies" that will be our "friends" tomorrow because their government, and ours, government tells us so, via their mass media, t.v., internet, etc., the same. love, alma

[scottie12]

What a civilised discussion , and such uniform agreement
must surely mean that we are right !
(of course , i do have a 2 ppl ignored , which if I didnt , might change my opinion a little ) , but , re; how to know who to vote for ?
I borrowed a motto from an old friend , that I apply to everybody 'pretty much'.
But , especially to politicians , It's simple but worthy and it goes like this ;

"It's not what you say, It's what you do , that matters !"

For politicians this means their congressional voting record"if their incumbant " and I think theres info at C-Span.org re: that,For the national level.

On the local level , i guess it depends on the state-run websites .
Of course for newbies with no record , more is left to your own intuition , but , For myself , I'm finding it hard to resist the urge to just 'throw the bums out ' no matter how rotten the newbie seems , and thats probably what will determine how I vote this year.

[Gwynyvyr]

Where we gonna get all this info about "our" candidates when the "free" press is actually the propaganda machine of the powers that be?

They may seem to be of opposite persuasions at times, but make no mistake about it, they are all shaping public opinion to maintain the status quo.

--just like we have "opposite" political parties that are going to do so much for us.

We are mental klones of the first order, and will always
follow the same drummer into perdition, all the while thinking that we are doing it all for god and/or country whether we live in the east or the west.

How is it that people born in the good ole u.s.a. think so much alike while, if they were born in iraq, for instance, they would worship allah, and salute the iraqi flag, the same as we believe in our various gods and salute the american flag.

We've all been taught, the world over, WHAT to think, and not HOW to think at all, the same as our "enemies" that will be our "friends" tomorrow because their government, and ours, government tells us so, via their mass media, t.v., internet, etc., the same. love, alma





Alma, the best I can tell you to do is to investigate candidates for yourself. You have the internet, use it!

Yes, we are lied to, yes, we have been trained not only what to think but how to think by school, tv, the media in general.
But here on this forum and on a few (scant few) other forums I visit, I see people that have shaken off the mental blinders that were so carefully put on each of us.

More and more of us seem to have discarded those blinders and thats a good thing.

I look forward to the day when those of us that have left the flock of sheeple run our own candidates for office,

[Toad_Sticker]

Honestly, I don't think ANYONE should follow the precepts of their religious beliefs as a method of picking their candidates.

If you follow a faith and adhere to it blindly, you are more apt to be misled by leaders of your faith.
Politicians KNOW this and then try to cozy up to all the religious leaders possible to garner more votes.

Think for yourself. Examine the candidates records, their ties to foreign powers, big business, etc. Check where they stand on issues that are important to YOU.

Break ties with any party you are affiliated with.
Vote for the person, not the party.

Get out of the flock. There are wolves there...and you might not recognize them.

For true believers it is impossible to seperate your religous life and your political life.
Many will try but then they are living a lie.
If you follow some leader blindly you deserve what you get......open wide and drink the kool aid.......
TS

[gypho]

TS..... the key word in Gwynn's post for me was...... "blindly".... the Bible tells us to "study to show ourselves approved, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed..." and if we do this....... then we follow NO MAN BLINDLY, but we are led of the Spirit. I believe this is true, and it's why I agreed with Gwynn. Because I study, I am not led blindly. Just because I vote for this candidate or that candidate, does not mean that I have voted because they make a claim to Christianity; it means that I have studied, prayed, and then voted.

JMHO.

gypho

[scottie12]

Liberty here are some examples of what I'm talking about concerning ' owning the process' I think it could also be seen as defiling the process etc.etc.

I couldnt get past (technically ) the first page of the article you linked on the subject at hand .

but I did find a link to a "condensed version , I guess' , that is from msnbc.... or more exactly - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15228489/

I found it at www.whatreallyhappened.com !
The article is for me and many others the first introduction (excepting you ) to the topic and it is obvious to me that this introductory article is flagrantly tainted by journalistic bs of the most psychologically damaged and journalistically unprofessional sort and that mr . kuo has lent himself intentionally to that conspiracy . And most of what we hear from now on will be constructed from this (approved framework).

consider the article itself - It is short , only 18 short paragraphs , but look at how contradictory and confusing and bewildering its intent is , meaning -

Mr. kuo , does not (at least as reported by this article ) blame the pres. directly , and is even quoted as quoting the pres. as showing concern for being informed .

Mr. kuo , even says that he still likes and respects the ppl involved with the scamming (wth) .

Mr. kuo , while whining for more funds for faith-based -stuff , is also quoted as saying that -he had a hard time proving that more was needed- and while he admits that $20million less than b4 was available , he also reassures us that the pres did not really neglect the xians , cuz, he actually probably gave them more by taking what other religions would have gotten , and giving it too the xians instead , which should make the xians feel special .

mr. kuo also serves the neocon propaganda interests by blaming the electoral losses in ohio on savvy political
machinations , which , I think , intentionally distracts us from the even bigger scandal ,(diebold and massive vote-fraud ) .

Mr. kuo - indicates the disdain , that the admin . had for some of the church leadership , but who wouldnt want to distance themself from the likes of ralph Reed ( tainted by the abramoff scandal ) even the xians cant really like these ppl !

Mr.kuo will now get to put (himself ) a conservative xian in the media spotlight , as a defender of the poor (gimmee a break).


consider this paragraph from the article ;
"#10With the exception of one reporter from the Washington Post, Kuo says the media were oblivious to the political nature and impact of his office’s events, in part because so much of the debate centered on issues of separation of church and state."

isnt this statement an exercise in mindless paradoxicality ?

well i know that i am already very uninterested in being subjected to mr. kuo ( as the defender of anything ).

[libertylover]

scottie said: all questions that do not logically lead to that conclusion will be marginalised ,Given very little air-time , and even ridiculed if they make too much sense.

yes I agree scottie and as you know they are
trashing Alex Jones now.

[jim]

Scott

Why do you dis Christians by using the X?

jim

[Toad_Sticker]

TS..... the key word in Gwynn's post for me was...... "blindly".... the Bible tells us to "study to show ourselves approved, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed..." and if we do this....... then we follow NO MAN BLINDLY, but we are led of the Spirit. *I believe this is true, and it's why I agreed with Gwynn. *Because I study, I am not led blindly. *Just because I vote for this candidate or that candidate, does not mean that I have voted because they make a claim to Christianity; it means that I have studied, prayed, and then voted.

JMHO.

gypho

Read her first sentence
it pretty much says not to apply your beliefs to your voting.
That is what I was addressing
TS

[Toad_Sticker]

Scott

Why do you dis Christians by using the X?

jim
He will point out that many great Christians in history have used this .
Also it is so much more convienient.
Oh and by the way it makes it easier to talk down to people.
TS

[gypho]

Read her first sentence
it pretty much says not to apply your beliefs to your voting.
That is what I was addressing
TS


I see your point too. Just to let ya know. ;D

gypho

[libertylover]

Lots of great points made. Especially
CarolAnn, alma, Gwyn, scottie.

[jim]

I do agree that we as CHRISTIANS have too easily been taken by liars using the right phrases, and we need to stop that. The Good Book says that we're to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. That means we're to use good judgement and not fall for these scams, and see things as what they are, and not what we wish they were.

Funny how one never sees a hypocrite defaming Muslims, Buddhists, or the like the way they do Christians. I guess it's ok to offend us, but Heaven forbid (pun intended) anyone else gets offended. I guess they show their true colors whether they intended to or not.

jim

[Toad_Sticker]

Lots of great points made. *Especially
CarolAnn, alma, Gwyn, scottie.



I have had all my points surgically removed........
Thanks for noticing.
TS ;D

[Gwynyvyr]

Toad...Nice you caught it. I believe that any one that uses their religion as a base for their voting can be more easily deluded by politicians. If a candidate of my faith was to continously invoke the name of my gods, show up at Hofs kissing babies and shaking hands, I would immediately consider that candidate suspect.
I consider ANY candidate that tries to show what a religious person they are as suspect when they seek office.

I prefer to look at the candidate himself/herself.
I have voted in every (federal, state and local) election since I turned 18.
I have voted for Christians, Jews, Mormons, Atheists, Agnostics, a Buddhist, several folks of the new age persuasion and a hell of a lot that didn't mention their religion.

And those who use the *x* for *xians* are using a term that was pretty common in the middle ages. It's convienent for the lazy. I prefer to write it out myself. They are not talking down to you any more than those that refer to *godless heathens* or *fluffy new-agers*...does it?

Gwenn...Proudly Heathen and I Vote!
I looked at the candidate...their record, their ties in the community, their ties to business, their experience.

Vote however you want. Thats every ones right in this country.

[libertylover]

belated birthday boy ts, I'm sorry, I mean no
disrespect to your posts.

Those I said made good points were posting
comments on how I think. So many truths so
eloquantly expressed.

[Toad_Sticker]

belated birthday boy ts, I'm sorry, I mean no
disrespect to your posts.

Those I said made good points were posting
comments on how I think. *So many truths so
eloquantly expressed.
I was just making a joke.......
I didn't feel disrespected........
TS

[scottie12]

[quote]
And those who use the *x* for *xians* are using a term that was pretty common in the middle ages. It's convienent for the lazy. I prefer to write it out myself. They are not talking down to you any more than those that refer to *godless heathens* or *fluffy new-agers*...does it?
Scott says; you calling me lazy ? you looking for trouble ?
Those are fighting words ya know ? just kidding!

But I must say that i do agree with ' toad sticker' , ' in a sense ' RE; the unseparable nature of religion and politics , but only if you consider 'your own personality ' as your
' own personal religion' and 'as everyones true religion ' .
In that sense we are all guilty and obligated to vote with our religion as our sole guide .

I see xianity and all other traditional religions as just a simpler, easier ,lazier , version of that concept .

Self-edited to remove unecessary in-civilities .

[scottie12]

Liberty !
i'm thinking that a discussion on the 'Seduction of Libertarians ' might be interesting as well ! What do you
think ?

[Toad_Sticker]

to their comfort zone of *childish triviality.

But I must say that i do agree with *toad sniffer , ' in a sense ' *

talk about childish triviality.. ::) name calling?
is that the best you can come up with?
as I said before your lack civility goes a long way in devalueing your arguments.
TS

[jim]

I have to agree with this. Notice how he breaks the rules of board civility. Obviously if you don't agree with him, then you're of the lower mentalities. I've never seen anything more close-minded than a liberal of whatever pusuation. Sad isn't it?
jim

[scottie12]

But - getting back to the topic-(seduction of Xians).
I think that in order to understand 'why they are so seducible ?', one must consider the nature of the thinking process that they have been trained to use .
The very act of being a modern literate xian forces that person to accept, practice, and internalise certain detrimental habits of processing information .
Meaning that they are trained to take intellectuall shortcuts aimed at achieving their preferred emotional result .

Often they simply refuse to see information that might be contrary to achieving this result , even if its right there in their own bible .

You can observe this simply by asking them how they "feel' or what they 'think' about all of the many contradictions that are present in their bible .

Usually they will at first respond by saying that there are no contradictions , becuz, they are so trained that they really do 'believe' this .

But I've found that once you get them to recognise that there really are many, many , contradictions in their bible , that they begin to start to get a more rational
attitude regarding their 'beliefs'.

I usually just recommend to them that they google "biblical contradictions " and then compare what they find there with what they find in their bible .
Its a healing experience , I think.

[Toad_Sticker]

you know when you hit the ignore button a whole bunch of CRAP disappears.......
it smells nicer too.....
TS

[jim]

Ain't it the truth.

I always get a laugh out of folks that come up with this Biblical Contradiction line. I understand how this happens and do feel for them, but they never seem to get beyond ignorance and lack of understanding. Perhaps one day...

jim

[gypho]

I'm modifying this post. Just want to add that I'm agreewith with TS and Jim on this one, ya'll.

gypho

[jim]

Most of these "Biblical error" sites have little if anything in the way of accuracy in their material. Most of it is ignorance, or twisted out of context statements and quotes used by people that have a self-destructive axe to grind. It seems that the less they really know of the Holy Word, the more noise it makes coming out. I feel sorry for them, for one day in the hereafter, they will have to answer for their actions. If The Bible is so wrong, why would they care since everyone of them I ever met is an athiest? They are basically senseless.

I'm wondering if deep down inside they know they're wrong and in rebellion to God, and it somehow makes them feel better to drag as many down with them as possible? Pseudo-intellectualism and hate seem to be their forte.

jim

[zebraman]

Hey Guys;If there truely was No God,there wouldn't be any atheists or agnostics!

[Eagle]

Adding my 2 cents worth here...
Don't usually come around these parts
when it gets like this.

But it is time!

We have to come together...most of us here are really after the same moral things that need to come to fruition by us acting.

This 'He said, She said'; 'Us against Them';
'I'm right, You're all wrong' stuff really has to go away or we will never make the powers that be that we give the power to accountable for the madness they create by messing with our minds and our lives on a full time basis.

God will do what we do.
If We act, God acts.
If We come together with love for one another for change, God propells that love for one another and change.

God will only 'take care of things'...
If We Ourselves, each Individually, take care of things!

We Create the Energy that the Source Creates in Boundless Form to Expand For the Good.

We must ALL Create Good from Within...
And things WILL Change in Alignment with exactly that Good.

[libertylover]

Your are correct eagle.

We must all come together. *We must
all have a common goal of fighting and
destroying those evil b------- who are
driven to control us.

Does it really matter whether people
believe in God or not. *As long as we
all respect others beliefs.

My friend Tom and I have a deal. We
never ever speak of religion. *He does
not believe in God and I do. *Now that
we don't talk religion, we have grown
much closer.

We members who have been here
several years now discussing religion
just about closed this forum.

ODS gave us all an ignore button. *Why
must any one even feel the need to
come back and make a point. *To have
the last word. *To Up one. *It doesn't
resolve anything. *In my humble opinion
(please, I'm not pointing fingers) it just looks
like we are being immature.

USE YOUR IGNORE BUTTON.

I never want to suffer the pain, seeing the
forum go backward.

If I don't answer you back, it might just
because I have you on ignore.

[jim]

Kudos Eagle!

[scottie12]

eagle - i apologise for making a mess of your other topic ;
i removed all my posts to help to put it back as it was before.
I dont know why the -'others'- didnt do the same ?

[libertylover]

They must think we are idiots for believing this.

MIAMI (AFP) - The top US general defended the leadership of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, saying it is inspired by God.

"He leads in a way that the good Lord tells him is best for our country," said Marine General Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Rumsfeld is "a man whose patriotism focus, energy, drive, is exceeded by no one else I know ... quite simply, he works harder than anybody else in our building," Pace said at a ceremony at the Southern Command (Southcom) in Miami.

Rumsfeld has faced a storm of criticism and calls for his resignation, largely over his handling of the Iraq war.

But he got a strong show of support from the military establishment at Thursday's ceremony, where Navy Admiral James Stavridis took over Southcom's command from General Bantz Craddock.

"He comes to work everyday with a single-minded focus to make this country safe," said Stavridis who was a senior aide to Rumsfeld before taking on the Southcom job.

"We're lucky as a nation that he continues to serve with such passion and such integrity and such determination and such brilliance," said Stavridis, 51.

As head of Southcom, Stavridis will be responsible for military cooperation with Latin American countries, and will be in charge of the Guantanamo US military base in Cuba where more than 400 "war on terror" detainees are being held.

Craddock, who was named supreme commander of allied forces in Europe, hailed the role Southcom has played.

"Today I believe that we can say we were successful in our efforts and contributed to ensuring our nation's security through support on the global war on terror, and encouraged regional cooperation to enhance the security and stability in the region," he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061019/pl_afp/usmilitarypolitics_061019193550

[Frank]

no big surprise that the religious groups got (and still are) used.
the inmates running the asylum!

e.g. WMD's, war on terror, terror alarms,...

as for a third part/candidate:
only a coup will solve this never-ending problem of 'inherit right to govern'.

[Eagle]

Hi LibertyLover,

I really believe that more and more are truly waking up to the non-stop mental manipulation that goes on and has gone on for years.

The Press is being "pressed" out of our lives and exposed for the bought and sold- lie manufacturing- repetitive label abusing- brain washing mechanism it is and that is ALL it is, period!
To keep us apart and confused and paranoid.

No one is listening anymore.

Everyone is learning to get to current event happenings
from independent news sources and the sharing of same to and from those they know that know how to get to the truths.

[jim]

Gotta admit, some of this stuff is mighty scarey.

One thing on this "seduction". *A lot of Christians voted the way they did, because it was the best that could be done at the time. "Lesser of two evils" so to speak, not what they wanted. I hear every day how they wish there was a true choice.

jim

[Rancher]

I am a "newby" here and perhaps this may ruffle some feathers, but here is my take on this.

I am disapointed on much of the posts on this thread. I expected a more civil and accurate discussion, without the slanderous name calling, etc.

May I suggest that before writing emotional diatribes on this subject, we should first read and understand the Constitution and then The Federalist Papers to really learn why and how we have our government institutions the way they are. Then perhaps we will not be taken in by the continual biased reports in the current news media.

The First Amendment to our Constitution is very clear and specific on the subject of religion. The Constitution and Federalist Papers also are very clear on the subject of why and how the Electorial College was instituted.

As civil members of society, before we accuse our President and other officials of dishonesty, lack of ethics, etc., please, let's be specific to identify the specific reason. Let's not be slanderous without suporting evidence.

[Deberosa]

I am a "newby" here and perhaps this may ruffle some feathers, but here is my take on this.

I am disapointed on much of the posts on this thread. I expected a more civil and accurate discussion, without the slanderous name calling, etc.

May I suggest that before writing emotional diatribes on this subject, we should first read and understand the Constitution and then The Federalist Papers to really learn why and how we have our government institutions the way they are. Then perhaps we will not be taken in by the continual biased reports in the current news media.

The First Amendment to our Constitution is very clear and specific on the subject of religion. The Constitution and Federalist Papers also are very clear on the subject of why and how the Electorial College was instituted.

As civil members of society, before we accuse our President and other officials of dishonesty, lack of ethics, etc., please, let's be specific to identify the specific reason. Let's not be slanderous without suporting evidence.



Welcome, Rancher! You have happened upon an old thread that demonstrates what this board was like before moderators were enlisted. If you find such behavior in posts more recent please alert any of the moderators via PM and we can deal with it.