Racism/Hate Crimes Against Mexicans

[Smilin_Bob]

this must end! Its time we welcome our brown brothers into this country, amnesty for all!! Give us your poor huddled masses, is that not inscribed somewhere?

http://www.pww.org/article/articleview/9336/1/326/

Smilin Bob ;D

[Bwana]

That's nothing, I fully expect things to get much worse in regards to race. I'm not condoning it at all, I just think that the REAL rulers of this country (perhaps the world?) are counting on an all-out race/civil war to "thin the herd" so to speak.

Sorry to say but, someone (brown, black or white) will likely wipe the smile off of Smilin' Bob. :-/ Sure hope I'm wrong but I doubt it. I think Americans by birth are only going to tolerate so much...just not sure what it will take to unleash total mayhem.

Dave

[Smilin_Bob]

If at times you feel you want to cry
And life seems such a trial
Above the clouds theres a bright blue sky
So make your tears a smile.

As you travel on lifes way
With its many ups and downs
Remember its quite true to say
One smile is worth a dozen frowns.

Among the worlds expensive things
A smile is very cheap
And when you give a smile away,
You get one back to keep.

Happiness comes at times to all
But sadness comes unbidden
And sometimes a few tears must fall
Among the laughter hidden.

So when friends have sadness on their face
And troubles round them piled
The world will seem a better place
And all because you smiled.

:-)

[wax]

On a brighter note some Mexican was murdered this morning somewhere for the cash he had in his pocket... or the shoes on his feet... or the food in his hand.
No one hated him, in fact no one really cared one way or the other about him.
He was killed because man is a predator and that is what man does... it is in his nature.

Surprisingly it wouldn't have made a difference what skin color the slain had, the killer didn't care whether the prey was religious or not... in fact the only important fact was that the victim was indeed prey and the killer was indeed a predator.

I say we let him go if we could catch him... which we can't... or won't! There simply is no publicity in it.

[wax]

BTW: If I can prove that I didn't "hate" the person I kill, can I get a reduced sentance?
Yes I killed him but I really liked the guy!
But then... why would I kill him?

I mean really?
If you accidentally kill someone then it isn't murder.
So when is it at all possible for murder to "not" be a "hate-crime"?

Yes your honor, I did slit his throat and stabbed him but it was an act of pure love!
Can I get a cell close to the mess hall please and be out by next Christmas?

[DaNgEr_KiTtY]

inscribed somewhere? are you trying to quote the bible or something? if so then this would be a good time to remind you of something i am sure comes out of your mouth quite a bit, separation of church & state. yeah yeah i know thats not anywhere in the constitution but its a popular liberal catch phrase & you could use that alone to refute your weak biblical implications that we should allow anyone to come to our country unfiltered.

[alma]

"Give me your huddled masses". Isn't that inscribed on the statue of liberty, and not meant to be a biblical reference at all? love, alma

[DaNgEr_KiTtY]

i still dont see how something written on a statue translates into allowing people to cross our borders illegally.

[Bad_Omen]

i still dont see how something written on a statue translates into allowing people to cross our borders illegally. *

I think her point is that America was built by immigrants for immigrants but seems to have forgotten that.

Admittedly times have changed but there was a time when America needed immigration to survive, it needed new blood. Without the cheap labour of the Chinese the railroads would not have been built as quickly or as cheaply as they were. There wouldn't have been the expansion that allowed America to become the super power it did.

Things have changed though and as Americans you now feel that you don't want more immigration unless they are the pick of the crop. The high flying graduates, the entertainers or the sports personalities are more than welcome but the guy who's only qualified to wash dishes or clean pools is not. But then those are jobs most Americans don't want to do.

A bit hypocritical wouldn't you say? 'Your only skill is kicking a soccer ball, no problem Mr Beckham, come on in.'

But then America has always been a bit of a hypocrite about certain things. It loves to play the roll of the world's policeman but will invade a country because it's ruler rules through force of arms and torture yet will use those exact same methods to achieve it's goals.

It condemned the apartheid government in South Africa for crimes against the black population yet America was carved from a land populated by the Indian tribes who were slaughtered and caged to make way for the good old US of A. They are still treated like second class citizens. But that's different 'cause it's Uncle Sam doing it.

Nelson Mandela is considered a great world statesman who brought freedom to his people. Well, you know how he did that? Through the use of terrorism. But then America doesn't mind other peoples terrorists does it. It's OK to collect money for the IRA so they can blow up civilians in London. Thats different because it's not American dying, it's only Brits and South Africans.

I think it's probably about time America dismantled the statue of liberty and gave it back to the people of France. It may have been appropriate once but not anymore. I'd suggest replacing it with a raised draw bridge, it'd be more symbolic.

For a while the forum was just getting better and better. Lately every other post seems to be about 'why I hate illegal immigrants'. Whats that got to do with homesteading? I appreciate the fact thats it's a very important issue to a lot of people but it's getting to the point where it's becoming all consuming to some people here. Whilst they cause many problems they are not the root of all evil or the cause of all your problems.

[DaNgEr_KiTtY]

i am scratchin my head here trying to figure out if there is anyone here that feels that the illegal immigration issue is the cause of all of their problems.

[333]

Peace,

Bad Omen, "I think her point is that America was built by immigrants for immigrants but seems to have forgotten that."

Forgive me for the intercession, but America was founded by the "outcasts" of imperialists nations with a religious difference issue, refugee's religious or war created from all over Europe through out the late 1500s and on immigrated emigrated and were promptly deported with services range 10 years to whom ever payed their voyage and passage. When the bread basket the (new world) really started to pay off, the Dutch were squeezed out and the French and English and Spanish set to capitulating/ eradicating the natives all over the American continents. Then of course they warred with each other etc and repeat.

In fact each successive immigration since the late 1700's and on was met with complete disdain from the locals. The Germans and Prussians, The Irish, The Italians, The Chinese, each one was completely reviled by native citizens and exploited by the big business tycoons not including the servitude and slaves, the difference being the majority came here legally and not by the tens of millions.

333

[wax]

333- The Germans and Prussians, The Irish, The Italians, The Chinese, each one was completely reviled by native citizens and exploited by the big business tycoons not including the servitude and slaves, the difference being the majority came here legally...

Wax- It must be repeated because it is so very important.
Every group has been forced to undergo a hazing period and then by proving themselves join in the "melting pot" that has made this nation so strong in the past.

Unfortunately the last thirty years or so of "political correctness" has convinced the uninformed that such a thing is normal... much less desired!
We have a group of people that wish to come here and make our society stronger (without them we will have no workers in twenty years... or at least not enough to support social security as it is today).

The only legitimate problem is that they are illegal.
Make it easier to register and apply for full citizenship.
Then deal with those who refuse to do this with extreme prejudice!
But most of all accept that newcomers in America will be the ones to adjust, not the other way around!

[RangerRick]

You paint with a very broad brush but I understand what you are driving at. True, most groups arriving on our shores were subjected to shunning and worst. I think that was due more to the individuals financial status, ability to communicate in the English language and personal intelligence. In a capitalist society money is power, consequently the poor will usually be the lowest common denominate until they attain some wealth/means/stability. Those that can't communicate are doubly damned as they have difficulties forming meaningful ties with those appointed over them and they arn't trusted because others can't communicate with them. The ignorant have always been disdained and looked down upon as second class citizens - it may not be right but those with more education will not easily give up their rewards to those that are seen as "haven't paid their dues". In the work place a break is seldom given to those not considered worthy - for whatever reason.

Of course all these things tend to keep these individuals in their self perpetuating sink hole and they don't seem to mix with the melting pot in a timely fashion which really holds them in place. Just think of all the children that hear no English at home. Mom and Pop and Grandma don't speak the lingo so were will they pick it up, on the block? And just who is going to reinforce English in the home? You hear them talking to their buddies all the time in the mall - speaking their native language not English. Then the liberal establishment doesn't help much as they provide "other than English" teachers for said children instead of mandating a unified language. All the time trying to give them a hand up but in reality only to divide and conquer. Or they are processed through our screwl system and ejected into a capitalist America without the most important tool they will need to compete - English, not gutter gibberish.

Personally I don't see the majority of illegal aliens as people that want to come here and make our society stronger. They want a job because they didn't have one where they came from and don't give a hoot about the damn gringos and Yankees. They care about what's important, their family and getting the most out of whatever they can. The betterment of our society is several generations removed for them at this point.

As to needing these workers, true to an extent but that is why we need a very strong guest worker program AFTER our borders are secured and all illegals have been repatriated to their home countries. Then I have to consider the American sheet rock and paper hangers in Californicator that were making $22 an hour in 2000 and today they are doing something else because illegal aliens came into the trades and are doing the same jobs for $9 an hour. Yeah, we need em real bad - picking peaches and cleaning toliets, real guest worker jobs.

The only legitimate problem is not that they are illegal. There are many problems associated with illegal aliens. The two big ones to my mind are CRIME and entitlements. Locally we have passed laws that are stripping all entitlements away and surprise surprise, they're leaving in droves. Kind of makes you wonder what they really care about. Of course, with just these two topics our discussion would be endless. Now, if we could only get a handle on the crime.

Making it easier to register and apply for full citizenship is one thing, however I pray to God that we scrutinize future immigrants to the fullest extent as the last thing we need is new Americans that are ignorant, unskilled, unproductive louts with little to nothing of offer America. Trash we already have plenty of, we don't need more.

;)

Rick

[macgeoghagen]

All that nonsense about tired poor huddled masses is on the statue of liberty. A gift from the french. I offer no quarter for any huddled mass, any person who comes to the US looking for a handout and a kinder master to tell him what to do. those kinds of people are worthless in the battle against tyranny. I will not huddle, i will not be tired and poor. My ancestors came to the US looking for freedom, not a better place to huddle and a gentler slave master to take care of them. They came to take a new land by conquest and by commerce. They came to build a nation. If the immigrant today wants to do the same, then he has my blessing. If he wants a handout and a place to squat, then i have naught but hot lead to feed him.

[shingletownwalt]

Does anybody understand the difference in legal immigration and illegal immigration. We do not need to be the welfare system for all the poor people in the world.

[Pitdog]

wax
Senior Member









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Re: Racism/Hate Crimes Against Mexicans
« Reply #3 on: Aug 30th, 2007, 5:27pm » Ignore Quote Modify

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On a brighter note some Mexican was murdered this morning somewhere for the cash he had in his pocket... or the shoes on his feet... or the food in his hand.
No one hated him, in fact no one really cared one way or the other about him.
He was killed because man is a predator and that is what man does... it is in his nature.


To quote a song:
'True hunting's over now,
No herd to follow-
Without Game
Men Pray on each other.'

Some more so than others.

[jim]

What BS! Get away from the lunatic left before it rots your brain, troll.

What about the assaults by illegal aliens against anglos? Is that OK?

jim

[Txanne]

What BS! Get away from the lunatic left before it rots your brain, troll.

What about the assaults by illegal aliens against anglos? Is that OK?

jim


And rapes and murders.

Txanne

[mtwildflower]

We have a group of people that wish to come here and make our society stronger (without them we will have no workers in twenty years... or at least not enough to support social security as it is today).


No, we have a group of people whose own government will not take care of them. ( They actually implement a "you don't work, you don't eat" policy.) and so they come here because they know they can manipulate our laws in their favor. They want a better life on the backs of people who work for it and a corrupt government that takes from the workers and gives to the slackers.

I have much respect for people who came to the US legally and suffered much hardship making a life for themselves and their children. My great grandfather was from Italy,...his father brought him over when he turned fourteen because he didn't want to see him, a peasant, be drafted for life into the Italian army. And he was left to fend for himself when his father went back to Italy....at 14.

Another set of great grandparents were Scandinavian. They took out homesteads on rocky, unforgiving ground here in Montana and died before seeing their grandchildren.

To allow people to come to our country and freeload without demanding something in return from them, is a slap in the face of legal immigrants who risked everything, lost most of everything they owned, and had to scrape to get here and then had to scrape to stay here. No. Just because you can walk across the border does not give you the right to be here....Mexican or Canadian.

[RangerRick]

I know your husband is real proud of you as you're not only intelligent but you have good common sence as well. I know I would be as not much gets by you.

:)

Rick

[RangerRick]

I know your husband is real proud of you as you're not only intelligent but you have good common since as well. *I know I would be as not much gets by you.

:)

Rick

[Pitdog]

It is quite convenient that so many love to jump on the 'we need them' band wagon.
For what? I ask.
I don't need them. I don't want them.

'They are such hard workers.'
Because they have to be under many work cicumstances, because those are the only jobs available
Then they all band together, 30 to a house, pay 10$ a week into rent, and send gobs of money home to pay the way for MORE of them to come over the border and get MORE benefits.

'They do jobs that Americans (generally meaning white) won't do.'
Because people who have a standard of living above 30 to a house, and a family to support, and taxes to pay, cannot do that job for that money. Offer to pay 15-20$ an hour to pick cabbage and pluck chickens and see how many Americans show up. Sadly, 15-20$ hourly is only 'ok' money these days.

'They are oppressed an poor and don't have the advantages we do.'
I wipe my Azz with their oppression and lack of money. We fought a war for freedom, and worked to build a nation that everyone wants to come to. Let THEM do the SAME, and if they aren't doing so well, then back them with some training and firepower so they can finish the job.

'They just want a nice place to live in clean neighborhood.'
Bollocks! Why do they do every conceivable thing to bring down OUR neighborhoods to the levels of the neighborhoods they left in an attempt to 'upgrade' their lives???? It is a shift of them into OUR culture. If filth and trashiness is THEIR culture, then keep it in THEIR country thanks!

And don't tell me otherwise. Don't whine to me about it and do NOT attempt to rationalize this plague.

[Txanne]

Pitbull

Now dont hold back---say what you mean--and needs to be said. ;D


Txanne

[Pitdog]

*wags tail* :)

[madmarine]

Couldn't have said it better myself Pitdog.

[rAcErRicK]

Within the last few days, the senate just introduced a bill to allow illegals to apply for, and recieve the social insecurity money that we have been bustin our tails to pay for 50 years. Another thing is when an alien comes to the shores of another land, and takes up the flag of that nation, is one thing. When he brings his own flag, he is not a citizen, he is an INVADER !

[Txanne]

Within the last few days, the senate just introduced a bill to allow illegals to apply for, and recieve the social insecurity money that we have been bustin our tails to pay for 50 years. Another thing is when an alien comes to the shores of another land, and takes up the flag of that nation, is one thing. When he brings his own flag, he is not a citizen, he is an INVADER !


And we know what we SHOULD be doing with invaders dont we?


Something I have been thinking of.
Now its off the wall so get your little tin-foil beanies all shined up.

How bout we declared war on Mexico---FOR all the invaders they have encouraged to come here---condoned by El Presidente whats his face--

But oh no---we have to go 10,000 miles around the world and fight a war---that we cant win--and they dont want us to win[[reminds me of another war[[

I guess its too close to home huh?
All the politicans would have to defend themselves--instead of globe hopping for what ever cause they are for today--this month or next year.

I dont hate these people--Mexican people are wonderful people---I hate the laws they break--and get all the perks
we have to work our butts off for and never received,

I know I am tired---its hot already and I just get so sick of all this lawlessness.

And they pay the darlings for it---

Just shoot the bastards---snipers on the borders---If your headed east-,crossing the thing--pow right in the kisser.

Beats what we're not doing right now.

Txanne

[MountainDreams]

Soooooo.....OUR SS system is going broke and OUR congress wants to sign up another 13- 20 million people (who, btw, never paid a dime into it).......makes perfect sense to me.... ::)

*THUNK*
(that was the sound of my forehead hitting the desk.....sorry)

[Txanne]

Soooooo.....OUR SS system is going broke and OUR congress wants to sign up another 13- 20 million people (who, btw, never paid a dime into it).......makes perfect sense to me.... ::)

*THUNK*
(that was the sound of my forehead hitting the desk.....sorry)


annie passing aspirin to MD---mine hurts just thinking about all this crap.

Txanne

[MountainDreams]

Thanks for the aspirin. lol
I liked your idea about snipers at the border, where do I sign up?
Of course, that doesn't solve the problem of the ones already entrenched here...sigh

[Txanne]

Thanks for the aspirin. lol
I liked your idea about snipers at the border, where do I sign up?
Of course, that doesn't solve the problem of the ones already entrenched here...sigh

No isnt doesnt solve the problem of those entrenched here.

The enactment of the Bracero Program durning WW2 is where many of the families got their planting here---

I personally think the program should be brought back---

If a farmer needs 30 Mexicans to work his fields---he would sign up and be responsible for them--they stay for what ever length of time the Gooberment allows them to stay--then back they go.


NOW the war starts-----

There were NO Mexicans working for wally world I worked for---

Here was the problem---and here come the flamers:

If the Co. needed 6 new employees for the nite shift---they would take 12 apps--and every dam time --only one or 2 could pass the drug test--or they would quit--cause they had to work harder than they wanted too--

There is about 4 levels of pay---and the new hires expected to come on board at top pay scale--

Raises were on evals---I got my third raise in a year just before I quit--retired.

We had mostly white and blacks at our store and one phillian[sp] couple.

The young ones wouldnt show up on the weekends--

Us older folks took the bunrt of the pounding because of no-shows.

I ran a mexican crew[[green card workers in the wood pile for 61/2 yrs--
We worked 6-7 days a week--the mexicans showed up---worked and kept their mouths shut--

All I ever heard at work[wally world]] was--I's gonna sue this company---sue sue sue.


Bring back the bracero program--

Folks--try getting the young hip-hoppers to do more than run their mouths--
They think they are so freakin important to this world--and they aint--their just one of the crew .
There isnt any movie star--hip-hop status in this every day world.
If you are a skilled blue collar worker--be the best in your field.

Bring back the Bracero program---make the hirer of these peple responsible for their taxes being filled and their return to Mexico.

Or send them to jail if they dont.

Txanne IMO of course

[MountainDreams]

OK..I'm probably going to get yelled at, but.....
Has anyone given any consideration to the millions of people we have in our prison system here? Why couldn't some of them be used for farm labor? Not the violent ones, of course, but there are a lot of them that could be "farmed" out to local growers during harvest season for a small fee. It would help the growers, help the prison system, heck might even help a few of the prisoners.
If that's not workable (I believe it would be), then fine....a guest worker program. Run sanely and with some degree of intellegence.
To my mind though, this has nothing to do with our current crises. If everyone thinks that 13 to 20 million people have wandered across the border to pick peaches and cabbage, well.......I only have 3 words....get a clue.
I live in Rock Hill, SC, just south of Charlotte, NC. We came here because my husband is a welder. He worked for years with the transient Boiler Makers. After a fall and injury, we made the decision to settle in one place. The construction market here was great and he got a good job, with only a small reduction in pay. We bought some land and built a house. Everything went great for over 10 years.....
He was let go from his job 3 years ago. Why? Because he was making almost $25 an hour and they could hire an illegal (they actually hired two to replace him) for $9 an hour. Now he's working for less than $10 an hour.
I can tell you dozens of stories about people in the area that are in the same boat and don't get me started on the people I know who have rented homes to a "nice young couple with a couple of kids" and the next thing they know there are 20 to 30 people in said home and $10-20,000 worth of damage by the time they get them all out.
And last(maybe), but not least.....these people are coming across without proper medical screening. That should scare the sh*t out of everyone here. TB, leprosy........
Ok, I'll shut up now and take the blows....LOL!

Sharon

[Txanne]

Good thoughts---i think we all have some workable plans in our brains.

But the powers that be wont listen to us.

Period.

Illegals are the bane of our excistence----the criminal elements is a very dangerous bunch.

Dope-dealing thugs-rapist murders---that bunch has to go.

But God forbid one of our BP agents shoots one of these worthless slimey pukes---off to jail they go.

But some Marine snipers---without RE--[[Rules of Engagement]] hanging over their heads could stop the flow in about 6 months I believe.

But enter the liberal whining fools--


Txanne

[MountainDreams]

Personally, I'm sick of the whining and the rampant PC. I just want to see someone (anyone) come up with a workable and intelligent solution......that doesn't envolve amnesty, SS, SSI, ADC or FS for people who invaded US!!!!! They broke the law, they invaded us......as a great American once said..
"I ain't gonna pay 'em for that!"

Sharon


*for anyone who doesn't know...that was John Wayne in "Big Jake"

[Txanne]

Personally, I'm sick of the whining and the rampant PC. I just want to see someone (anyone) come up with a workable and intelligent solution......that doesn't envolve amnesty, SS, SSI, ADC or FS for people who invaded US!!!!! They broke the law, they invaded us......as a great American once said..
"I ain't gonna pay 'em for that!"

Sharon


*for anyone who doesn't know...that was John Wayne in "Big Jake"


But my dear---we're just slowly tax payers--what the hell do we know?

Txanne

[Txanne]

It is quite convenient that so many love to jump on the 'we need them' band wagon.
For what? I ask.
I don't need them. I don't want them.

'They are such hard workers.'
Because they have to be under many work cicumstances, because those are the only jobs available
Then they all band together, 30 to a house, pay 10$ a week into rent, and send gobs of money home to pay the way for MORE of them to come over the border and get MORE benefits.

'They do jobs that Americans (generally meaning white) won't do.'
Because people who have a standard of living above 30 to a house, and a family to support, and taxes to pay, cannot do that job for that money. Offer to pay 15-20$ an hour to pick cabbage and pluck chickens and see how many Americans show up. Sadly, 15-20$ hourly is only 'ok' money these days.

'They are oppressed an poor and don't have the advantages we do.'
I wipe my Azz with their oppression and lack of money. We fought a war for freedom, and worked to build a nation that everyone wants to come to. Let THEM do the SAME, and if they aren't doing so well, then back them with some training and firepower so they can finish the job.

'They just want a nice place to live in clean neighborhood.'
Bollocks! Why do they do every conceivable thing to bring down OUR neighborhoods to the levels of the neighborhoods they left in an attempt to 'upgrade' their lives???? It is a shift of them into OUR culture. If filth and trashiness is THEIR culture, then keep it in THEIR country thanks!

And don't tell me otherwise. Don't whine to me about it and do NOT attempt to rationalize this plague.


Pit---something alse I have been thinking.

Businesses like Tyson Chicken people have become rich off the backs of these workers---

Its amounts to slave labor that we pick up the bill for--doesnt it?

IE: welfare--medicaid--Er care for them--etc etc etc etc.

Txanne

[MountainDreams]

*deep sigh*
Apparently we don't know how to get the people we vote into office to do what we want them to. We also seem to have forgotten how to vote them out..... ???
It's soooo frustrating. I just want to walk up to people and shake them and yell....WAKE UP! How do you sleep-walk your way through life and call that living?

Sharon

[soma151]

I cant believe people still think like some of you...where is your compashion or caring about others,you make me ashamed to be human

[Txanne]

I cant believe people still think like some of you...where is your compashion or caring about others,you make me ashamed to be human


You'll get over yourself---as soon as one ormore of the MS13 get ahold of ya body.

But are you human?


If you cant see the plight of the American taxpayers--then i think not.

Txanne

[soma151]

The plight on the Americian taxpayers?...or just forget it you people wouldnt understand any ways,not even worth my time....Have a great life because if you think you will ever stop people from crossing the border for a better life,you are in la la land....People even get threw the border between North and South Korea...You ever seen the bording crossing at Mexico??...lolllolol...like trying to stop the rain from falling...nothing you are going to do to even slow it down..NOTHING!...so live with it.

[MountainDreams]

Sooooo...when did you come across?

[Txanne]

The plight on the Americian taxpayers?...or just forget it you people wouldnt understand any ways,not even worth my time....Have a great life because if you think you will ever stop people from crossing the border for a better life,you are in la la land....People even get threw the border between North and South Korea...You ever seen the bording crossing at Mexico??...lolllolol...like trying to stop the rain from falling...nothing you are going to do to even slow it down..NOTHING!...so live with it.


OK OK I'll bite--what has North or South Korea got todo with Mexican illegals?

Smart mouth. Your mama know your in the adult section?

Txanne

[MountainDreams]

I suppose we really shouldn't be feeding the trolls this late.....probably give him nightmares....or worse. ::)

[otobesane1]

Soma, I have great compassion for all living things. That doesn't mean that I tolerate illegal acts. Not just the illegal acts of the border crossers, but also the illegal acts that big businesses perpetrate by hiring the illegals, the illegal acts that churches perpetrate by hiding and feeding the illegals, and the illegal acts perpetrated by the very illegals that steal our services, kill our citizens and break our laws. Just because I don't tolerate their illegal acts doesn't mean that I'm not compassionate. They come here illegally and our government continues to do nothing. It will get worse before it gets better.

TK

[flatwater]

It's hard for our Government to do anything because some of them have them as servants or maids or working on the peanut farm.
Flatwater

[MountainDreams]

Well, we certainly can't have the government types living in dirty houses now can we? :o


Sharon

[Pitdog]

I have the solution to everything. Trust me.
You are right Ann, we are paying the benefits packages for all of these scumbags that don't get it from the low wage jobs at Tyson, that's why I don't eat Tyson chicken LOL.
I eat Pitdog Brand X-Rock Tenders.

Soma or whatever it's name is, is just another scumbag, whatever it's color, creed, or nationality. As long as IT is paying for them IT is welcome to. I on the other hand am not into handing out everything I pay for, and thankfully, there are some people out there that ARE still as close minded as me. So Pizz of Mudder Flocker, YOU Feed and house them at your place, YOU pay their benefits packages and YOU bail them out of their legal jams and tell me how righteous and happy you are.

Don't get me started on the inmates......... 30 Grand a year to house this wretched crap?!?! to Quote the Monarch 'ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?!?'
Violent? Child molester? Rapist?...... One word pal, PRAY because it's all you would have left to do before you step infront of the bullet trap. Or on the trap door, depends on my mood that day I suppose........
Not-quite so violent? Little Crack? Stole some shoes?
NO more Cable, NO more AC and heat, NO more yard time, NO more free education........no sir, your degree will be from the Pitdog Institute of HARD KNOCKS.
Landfills need workers, ditches need dug, trash picked up, hog houses pressure washed, lawns of elderly people need mowed (if you're behaved) The list goes on and on and on........ Keep messing up while doing your bid? Canes applied liberally.......... waiting on the wounds to heal? NOT in the sick bay asphole, get back in the ditch, little penicillin will keep the split asp cheeks from getting infected. Don't like it? Don't come back. Don't wanna' come back? Give up the shiite and get a job. Buy a house. Be a person.
On Welfare? Can't find work? Everyone falls on hard times......fact of existence. Need a hand? Ok...... plenty for you to do in the community until you get a job, clean the houses of elderly, clean schools, assist at animal shelters, work the school crosswalks, all kinds of chores you can do. For two years MAXIMUM, Still can't find a job? LIAR! Wanna' have babies on the system? People get in trouble.....sure. Once. Next time? Can't afford it?
Bathtub and some tylenol, I'M NOT PAYING FOR IT.
Am I a complete lunatic? Probably. Am I a psychopathic mean azz? Odds are good.....
Am I wrong? Yes..........
NOT

[MountainDreams]

OK, Pitdog......those loud thudding sounds you're hearing are all the liberals fainting dead away. ::)
Well said, btw..... ;D
Oh, but you forgot picking crops. I think inmates would be good at that, don't you?

Sharon

[Vidman]

I think that the biggest divergence from the previous immigrant masses is that the previous immigrant masses WANTED to be Americans...as in US citizens. Many of the Mexicans do not...some even want to retake the soutwest by force.

[RangerRick]

"some"?? Try all.

Rick

[Txanne]

I think that the biggest divergence from the previous immigrant masses is that the previous immigrant masses WANTED to be Americans...as in US citizens. Many of the Mexicans do not...some even want to retake the soutwest by force.



They dont want to be Americans---they want to the southwest by force.

Bahahahahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa----let them bring it on.

But before they try physically---they wont have to lift a hand---ithey'll food stamp us to death---anchor baby us to death and their gangs will instill fear in the sheeple--liberals by whining---only thing the liberals understand is WHINING>

Txanne

[jim]

151 needs to keep the rum in the bottle instead of himself.

Everyone seems to forget that Texans by theirselves stopped Mexican invasions of this type three times in the past without any Govt. help. *Wasn't any big thing back then, but if we try that again, then we will have plenty of government interference, and that is our main problem right now along with an Internationalst Governor *masqurading as a Republican.

This IS an invasion, and thanks to white-guilt ridden socialist fools proactivly and their PC crap, few have the nerve to face what is going on.

The only race crimes being committed is against whites by illegal invaders. >:(

jim

[Txanne]

151 needs to keep the rum in the bottle instead of himself.

Everyone seems to forget that Texans by theirselves stopped Mexican invasions of this type three times in the past without any Govt. help. Wasn't any big thing back then, but if we try that again, then we will have plenty of government interference, and that is our main problem right now along with an Internationalst Governor masqurading as a Republican.

This IS an invasion, and thanks to white-guilt ridden socialist fools proactivly and their PC crap, few have the nerve to face what is going on.

The only race crimes being committed is against whites by illegal invaders. >:(

jim


I just hate it when you hold back---- ;D ;D

Txanne

[jim]

Well you know me, the master of understatement. :D

jim

[jim]

I went to the local HEB to get some fried chicken for lunch Friday. It's located in the barrio on the South East side of Austin. I'm one of the few whites going there, but have never had a problem from anyone. Well, I go to the deli and wait at the counter for a customer service rep. A black guy gets in line behind me, and an Invader comes up, looks at me funny, but says nothing, and we wait.

Then our customer service rep comes up and asks who was first: I replied that I was, and then the Invader starts speaking Spanish (cutting me off in mid sentence), so he get the service from the Latina manning the counter. I was surprised, but thought what the heck, I'm not going to get into it with them as I only have a short time. The black guy told her "This man was here first", and repeated it until the Invader moved to the back of the line where he should have been in the first place. I thanked him, got my chicken and left.

This has happened to me a couple of times at various locations, and I'm beginning to think it may be on the rise.

jim

[madmac]

PitDog I really like your way with words. They come here for hand outs, plain and simple. Counties are going broke over the cost of them being here. They are here with poor intentions. Give me back America and send them running home. It's too bad they are protected by our government. I am in law enforcement and can tell you they cost our court system dearly. They have their babies in jail at the cost of the county. Get better medical than I can afford for my family and the county has put a freeze on raises due to the budget being in the red. So go ahead, ask me my feelings on illegals crossing our borders. It is a sad day for the working class American. If you was to shoot one in defense of your family it would probably be treated as a hate crime and you would face life in prison. Another thing that really sets me off is the phone system catering to them. Press 1 for spanish or 2 for english. How about welcome to American and call back when you learn English. OK I am done for now but you probably have not heard the last of me.

[Catalpa]

madmac, I couldn't have said it better myself. The phone thing really gets my knickers in a knot, it's on the child support system for our state!!! Grrrr. >:(

[madmac]

I guess it would be too much to ask but I say let's send them all to the middle east and bring our boys home. They want to live in America so bad, let them fight for it. shoot their are enough of them we could even take on Iran. One thing for sure. They will be so busy fighting for their life they won't have time to make babies and further tax our welfare system.

[RangerRick]

Victoria, Texas is a town about 80 miles southwest of Houston . Local Hispanic leaders there, in opposition to pending Immigration Legislation, boycotted all Caucasian owned businesses in the Victoria area this weekend as a demonstration of their economic impact on the community. The boycott was declared a success by the Hispanic community, noting that revenue in Caucasian owned businesses was down by 19%.
Business owners declared the boycott a success as well, pointing out that shoplifting was reduced by 77%.

And...shoppers reported they could actually hear English being spoken throughout the stores for the first time in recent memory...and customers paid with real money, not government cards....

Ranger Rick

[jim]

LOL!

jim

[Pitdog]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA- etc.
I find this to be ABSOLUTELY the funniest fact I have heard in a looooooooooong time.

I shouldn't have to laugh. I wish they would boycott America.

[JAK]

You guys DO understand that ALL nazis do eventually get their butts kicked, dontcha?

[JAK]

This is what happens when we resort to the tactics of some of the folks our parents and grandparents fought so hard against. When we equate all mexicans with illegals, or all illegal immigrants with rapists, and so forth, we turn our kids into nazis. Sure a little political rhetoric now and then is neccessary, even unavoidable, but we are not going to solve the worlds problems with all this neo-nazi nonsense. Folks that do it, either out of misguided ignorance or deliberate prejudice, are just hiding behind the skirts and jockstraps of descent freedom loving Americans, and Canadians, etc. There is a better way. It's called democracy. We all kicked nazi butt before and we can do it again. We should all dig deep and try a little harder to think about what we want to say and how we want to go about things.

Good day all. God Bless America.

[chloe3388]

Sandycane, read all the articles.. Of course anyone committing a crime should be tried and punished to the full extent of the law. But there are hate crimes against all races. There are a lot of sick people running around out there because they are never made to pay for their crimes. Our criminal justice system does not do it's job..

Those two little girls killed in OK was that a hate crime? Does the fact that they are white discount the hate crime factor?

The recent attacks of MS13 in LA on the blacks in their areas make their crimes any different than any other crimes. Are they hate crimes?

http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/?p=3548

Let me add this, I have three Mexican granddaughters, a wonderful Mexican DIL and more Mexican cousins than I can count. We are a very mixed family and I worry a lot more about the fact that criminals are allowed to roam free in this country than hate crimes.

[JAK]

I worry a lot more about the fact that criminals are allowed to roam free in this country than hate crimes.I'm not sure if I followed that logic exactly.

It sounds like you are saying you are more worried about what people might do, then you are about actual crimes, serious crimes, against real people. Please say it ain't so, cause that just sounds crazy.

[bookwormom]

what a word, hate crime, is there a love crime?

[chloe3388]

I'm not sure if I followed that logic exactly.

It sounds like you are saying you are more worried about what people might do, then you are about actual crimes, serious crimes, against real people. Please say it ain't so, cause that just sounds crazy.

Jak, try to read the words not paint them with your own agendas. Crazy is not looking at facts, did you read the article I posted? Or are you only interested in one minority group.

As in a lot of these discussions logic is very subjective and seems only to apply to the speakers point of view.

[chloe3388]

Sandycane I want to thank you for adding me to the list, I feel honored to be counted among the ones on the list...

Again another one who reads into others posts only what they want to hear.. As I did not offer any validation for the animal that did this you are again calling names and behaving irrationally.

Please try and get a grip on your own bigotry and abusive attitude.

[RangerRick]

Sounds to me like we got a couple of mad dog socialist, one with head securly implanted up his butt and the other without a head at all. *Damn, liberals are stupid and I do love hearing em make complete jackasses outta themselves. *Hells bells, these two make bucko sound like a flamin moderate. It's startin to feel like April and these two fools are the show.

;D

Ranger Rick

[JAK]

Sounds to me like your not a real conservative.

[Pitdog]

That's TOO funny Rick. Sorry, I have been away from this thread wroking the gardens and making hay while the hay making is good.
The whole time cheating some poor illegal out of a job because I am planting and harvesting my own fruits and vegetables, and raising and slaughtering my own animals for family consumption.
Farking Ay! The shiite will hit the fan now! Shave my goatee into a little square mustache below my nose and tattoo a (backwards) swastika on my head like Morton Downey Sr!
I have in my hand the world's smallest fiddle, and it plays the sweetest tune called 'My heart pumps purple pizz for you.'
This kid is a victim of a crime. It was an abominable crime. No questions asked, hands down. He killed himself and that is as sad as the perps lives being destroyed for what they did as stupid kids.
Would MY kids do this? Odds are dam slim! They know what 'I' would do to them, so don't paint me with the same brush as some scumbag white trash, or you will wish the 'Nazis' got a hold of you!
This is one rare example of a crime, that is played out constantly in reverse effect, but I don't hear your sewer vents spouting about the ill done towards legal Americans!
All of your buzz words about 'nazis' and 'skinheads' and coming in here pointing fingers at us and comparing us is rediculous and offensive! So shut the penis holsters you call mouths and whine to someone else. Start talking about statistics and comparing crimes of violence and crime at all, of legal VS. Illegal.......... but wait, you can't because then you wouldn't be able to throw stones from your side of the railroad tracks.
Start signing over your paychecks to illegal outreach funds and start getting out there volunteering daily to do projects to upgrade illegals homes and neighborhoods, and come tell us ALL about it.
Furthermore, DO NOT preach about democratic reform and using the ballot box to change things when we live in a country where the supreme court decides who we get for a president.
In the meantime, I will not be beating a bible, the only one I own is the one from my Grandfather's funeral and a little camouflage one a Gideon gave me that I thought was quaint and quite an ironic contrast. I will not scream about pro life, OR the right to choose, but while you're in the generous mood, pay for some abortions for some illegals!

[jim]

sandy

I read the hate filled article made from whole cloth by that socialist Recoquista freak. Talk about distortions! It would take books to cover what that snake lied about.

Just because I'm not spewing socialist vomit in favor of this trouble maker's post, you list me with the most vile people ever to disgrace this planet. The nazi's! The egg-sucking liberal dogs are the only ones that qualify for nazi's in my book. Lies, misdirection, hypocracy, and pc is all they have to offer, and I ain't buying! Hitler and Goebbles used to laugh a lot about how they'd fooled a lot of Germans into thinking they were conservatives when they were actually leftists. That's documented, look it up. I wish you werne't so blasted ignorant!

I firmly believe in rule of law. It has to be the same for everyone, or it works for no one. Anyone should be able to see that. Just because I don't care for some illegal invader trying to take over something they never built or pay taxes on, does not make me a racist. In leiu of cogent thought, people like you spew hate-words like nazi and play the race card when they have no proper arguement to support they way they "feel". I did not lie, but stated what has directly happened to me, and if the perps had been blonde, blue-eyed Scotsmen, I'd feel the same way about it. Everything you said in your last post is pure bs. Either start thinking, or start wearing Pampers because you're embarrassing yourself by acting this way.

The only thing in that last post that I consider worthwhile was linking me with the other honorable people on this board that stand up for honor and truth. For that, Thanks!

jim

[Pitdog]

This........... ya gotta' love!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080701/ap_on_re_us/burglary_shooting

Illegals with cocaine convictions burglarizing a home and threatening an old man! Nonsense! These people don't act like this! Just some old white Nazi stirrin' up trouble and shooting two poor misunderstood Hispanics over a misunderstanding!

[RangerRick]

My heart really goes out to Mr. Horn knowing that he will have to carry around the anguish of killing these two worthless pieces of dog dung on the lawn of humanity for the rest of his life.

Ranger Rick

[jim]

I'm glad the persecutor lost this one. The man done good!

jim

[davidlj]

Maybe we need Spanish as a Main language now. :P

[davidlj]

Send them to Iraq as IED detectors

[Pitdog]

There is nothing I can add to this to make any more of a point. This is disgusting and the blame falls on SF City and I hope they are sued into bankruptcy because of it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080724/ap_on_re_us/road_rage_killing

[Vidman]

All I have to say about any of this is....

54-40 or FIGHT~!!!!!

;D

[Pitdog]

Well, again I found an interesting article, but forgot to mail myself the link for posting. Apparently roughly 1.5 illegal immigrants have left the US because of the poor economy, and more are expected to go over the next five years, decreasing their population here by half.
Talk about opportunistic parasites! All the talk of them looking for a 'better life in a better environment' was just BS afterall.............. for the most part.

[Theyeti]

I heard today something like 11.5% of illegals have gone back home. $4.00 gas is all that fun is it.

[TheUnboundOne]

Dear Pitdog,

Get 'em, Pitdoggie! Get 'em with your homemade shotgun!

;D

And fret not! You don't need Hank, Jr's blessing or anyone else's to defend yourself or our nation from a bunch of illegal alien invaders!

[TheUnboundOne]

Dear Txanne,

Your idea of war with Mexico is not all that far-fetched. The police and military from Mexico have actually fired upon U.S. Citizens from over the border. If that is not an act of war, then there is no such animal!

[TheUnboundOne]

Dear Otobesane1,

You bring out something that is not discussed often, even among opponents of the illegal alien invasion. *Here's the dirty little secret: One of the biggest supporters of this illegal alien invasion is the Christian Church, both Catholic and Protestant. *

I'm sure that at least some of George W. Bush's Unconstitutional "faith-based initiatives" go to the benefit of "sanctuary" churches and the invaders they serve, on top of the equally Unconstitutional welfare, food stamps, disability, Social Security, etc., etc, etc.

[Pitdog]

I knew there was a reason I follow the Norse Gods!

[TheUnboundOne]

JAK,

You wrote:

This is what happens when we resort to the tactics of some of the folks our parents and grandparents fought so hard against. When we equate all mexicans with illegals, or all illegal immigrants with rapists, and so forth, we turn our kids into nazis. Sure a little political rhetoric now and then is neccessary, even unavoidable, but we are not going to solve the worlds problems with all this neo-nazi nonsense. Folks that do it, either out of misguided ignorance or deliberate prejudice, are just hiding behind the skirts and jockstraps of descent freedom loving Americans, and Canadians, etc. There is a better way. It's called democracy. We all kicked nazi butt before and we can do it again. We should all dig deep and try a little harder to think about what we want to say and how we want to go about things.

Good day all. God Bless America.

You're addressing a straw-man here. I don't recall seeing any post equating Mexicans with illegals or illegals with other types of criminals.

So, how is it "Nazi" or "Neo-Nazi" to insist that people--regardless of heritage or nationality --who come here should sign the guest registry, (to quote Dennis Miller?)

How is it "Nazi" to insist that people--regardless of heritage or nationality--who come here have no criminal records or ties with gangs, terrorists, or totalitarian governments or movements?

And is it too much to ask that people--regardless of heritage or nationality--who come here be self-supporting or sponsored by someone who will willingly support them?

By the bye, I'm sure the actual Nazis wouldn't have got as far as they did if the rest of Europe had stronger borders instead of the Maginot Line of the French or even less.

::)

[TheUnboundOne]

Dear Pitdog,

You wrote:

I knew there was a reason I follow the Norse Gods!

We'll have to mix some Danish baby-back ribs into his kibble and put some Sweet Mead in his water bowl!

;D ;)

[TheUnboundOne]

Dear Forum Members,

To back up what I said earlier about the Christian Church's role in the illegal alien invasion, here is a story on the subject:

New Sanctuary Movement emerging among churches near and far
http://www.minnesotaindependent.com/view/new-sanctuary

What's even more infuriating is the kid gloves ICE has when it comes to churches. Are criminals, gangsters, and terrorists free to live among us as long as they have a halo?

??? >:(

[rAcErRicK]

Evening Unbound, you mentioned "straw man". A very little known terminology. Do know about your straw man ? And can he be purchased ?

[TheUnboundOne]

Dear rAcErRicK,

You wrote:

Evening Unbound, you mentioned "straw man". A very little known terminology.

A "straw man" is a logical fallacy and a term used in argumentation. *

When someone sets up a "straw man", *he avoids the actual premises of the opponent, he sets up another premise that seems to be similar to the opponent, and attacks the look-alike premise instead. *

Setting up a "straw-man" is called a logical fallacy because the conclusion of the person who sets it up doesn't follow from the premises of the actual argument from the opponent.

"Straw man" fallacies can persuade the unsuspecting, but they don't have any substance to them and thinking people see through them.

Do know about your straw man ? And can he be purchased ?

I hope I have never engaged in or believed in a "straw man" fallacy. *If I have, I apologize for spreading or believing in nonsense.

:)

As for whether a "straw man" can be purchased, I don't know why anyone would want to buy one. *

The only "straw men" worth buying are the three-dimensional ones that scare the crows out of the corn patch.

;D

[TheUnboundOne]

Dear Forum Members,

To get to the original story that started this thread, if it is true that someone committed a crime against an "illegal alien," the crime should be punished the same as any other crime...and crimes like this should be all the more reason for people to come here legally.

If people come here legally, they aren't subject to blackmail and extortion and don't have to fear turning to law enforcement or the courts for recourse against crimes. *

People who have compassion for immigrants should be the first to rally against illegal immigration and the "coyotes" who encourage and support it. And people who have compassion for immigrants should be the first to support streamlined legal immigration. *Immigrants who want to come here legally are the ones who get the shaft and deserve better.

[jim]

Further, the largest amount of crimes against illegals are committed by mexicans on both sides of the borders. They sure treat the illegals rotten.
jim

[Vidman]

Hmmm.. Tough subject for me. I do not believe in carte blanche deportations. I do believe in an ABSOLUTE shut down of the border. We have the Tech that could tell us when a beetle crosses the border. Has to be cheaper than the fence.

[TheUnboundOne]

Dear Forum Members,

Get a load of this video. *If this is correct, there is a whole lot more to the illegal alien invasion than meets the eye:

The Aztec Al-Qaeda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc1XAQc8hS8

Notice the pro-Communist sympathies exhibited by MEChA...

Notice also that Academia Semillos del Pueblo of MEChA's Marcos Aguilar teaches no English, but does teach Spanish and Mandarin Chinese and Nowa, the language of the Mexican Mafia...

Notice also that Academia Semillos del Pueblo is a charter school funded by taxdollars and that La Raza has 50 other charter schools as well, also footed by taxdollars!

If the facts in this video are correct, this illegal alien invasion is probably an attempt by Communist throw-backs and Red China to get a wedge and a base into the mainland United States. *The illegal alien invaders and activists and Mexican Mafia are foot-soldiers in this subversion...and U.S. Citizens are force to pay taxes to finance their own destroyers!

>:( *>:( *>:( *>:(

[Theyeti]

Dear Otobesane1,

You bring out something that is not discussed often, even among opponents of the illegal alien invasion. *Here's the dirty little secret: One of the biggest supporters of this illegal alien invasion is the Christian Church, both Catholic and Protestant. *

I'm sure that at least some of George W. Bush's Unconstitutional "faith-based initiatives" go to the benefit of "sanctuary" churches and the invaders they serve, on top of the equally Unconstitutional welfare, food stamps, disability, Social Security, etc., etc, etc.




I can see the reference being made against the Catholic Church in regards to Mexican illegal aliens (as they are staunchly Catholic) but to reference Protestants as a whole falling into this category...I beg to differ. *Most of the 'evangelicals' *that I know distinctly resent the activities of illegal aliens. BTW, evangelicals are Protestant Christians just to clarify. *

Perhaps you mean certain sectors of Protestantism (United Methodist, Episcopalion, Presbityrians...notedly liberal and apostasised churches). *Southern Baptists probably aren't waving banners in support of illegals.

Please don't broad stroke us all into a corner (meaning Christians). I know we're all self-righteous, bigoted, condescending and hypocritical. *I guess were unfortunate in having a faith based system that requires a marginal amount of moral responsibility that is above and beyond the ability of humans to emulate with perfection...*insert sarcasm where necessary*

As for me, illegals go home please. *Do it the right way, as proof of your whole hearted positive effort to become an American citizen as opposed to an opportunistic leach.

[Pitdog]

I love Odinism because: One is to abide by the (just) laws of his land. If he chooses to BREAK the law, then the law no longer helps him.
For instance, if a man rapes a woman, he has broken the law (if rape is illegal) so therefore when her father and brothers come and kill him, they did not break the law, because he was no longer protected by it.
If they are illegal and not here legally they are breaking the law, so I do not believe they should be protected by it. ESPECIALLY if they are breaking the immigration laws in order to break OTHER laws.
Horrible? Unthinkable? I don't care.
I think though, we need to also include making channels more streamlined and 'intelligent' to ALL potential immigrants, not just hispanics, and border security is a MUST regardless of who's feelings it hurts, there are MANY threats to us that can walk right into the heartland.

[TheUnboundOne]

Dear theyeti,

You wrote:

I can see the reference being made against the Catholic Church in regards to Mexican illegal aliens (as they are staunchly Catholic) but to reference Protestants as a whole falling into this category...I beg to differ. Most of the 'evangelicals' that I know distinctly resent the activities of illegal aliens. BTW, evangelicals are Protestant Christians just to clarify.

Perhaps not all Protestant denominations support the "Sanctuary Movement," but the denominations that do support this movement include Protestant ones, hence my saying "both Catholic and Protestant."

Perhaps you mean certain sectors of Protestantism (United Methodist, Episcopalion, Presbityrians...notedly liberal and apostasised churches). Southern Baptists probably aren't waving banners in support of illegals.

The article I linked mentioned the Workers Interfaith Network, with members of the Board of Directors affiliated with the Catholic Church, a Jewish Community Action group, the Lutheran Church, the Presbyterian Church, the United Methodist Church, and the United Church of Christ.

About us
http://workersinterfaith.org/about

As for 'apostasied' churches, there are many in the afformentioned Protestant Churches who would consider Baptists an 'apostasy,' since the Baptists originally broke off of Calvinist Puritanism. And Traditionalist Catholics would consider all of the Protestant denominations to be "apostasies."

No matter who is "apostate" though, Catholic and Protestant churches (except for duly noted Baptists) are bringing destruction to our nation with the "Sanctuary Movement."

Please don't broad stroke us all into a corner (meaning Christians). I know we're all self-righteous, bigoted, condescending and hypocritical.

I wouldn't call anyone adjectives like that unless the person's words and deeds fit the description. So far, you're a good egg with me.

:)

I guess were unfortunate in having a faith based system that requires a marginal amount of moral responsibility that is above and beyond the ability of humans to emulate with perfection...*insert sarcasm where necessary*

Here is where the problem lies: If people are taught to accept the authority of a priest, a minister, a religion, or a book on faith, that authority is never questioned and thus is never held morally accountable for anything. Why else does religion too often end up on the wrong side of freedom and progress and anything else that makes life better?

And it's not like anyone is asking for the impossible in this immigration issue. Any convenience store owner or well-seasoned convenience store clerk could show ministers and churches how to ask for ID of people seeking charity.

But if the ministers and churches think they're doing God's work by harboring illegals, the ministers and churches won't ask for ID and they'll condemn you as an "unbeliever" if you go against them .

As for me, illegals go home please. Do it the right way, as proof of your whole hearted positive effort to become an American citizen as opposed to an opportunistic leach.

See, I told you that you were a good egg.

;D

[TheUnboundOne]

Dear Vidman,

You wrote:

Hmmm.. Tough subject for me. I do not believe in carte blanche deportations. I do believe in an ABSOLUTE shut down of the border. We have the Tech that could tell us when a beetle crosses the border. Has to be cheaper than the fence.

The logistics for controlling the border are definitely needed. There are many other things that need to be done also because illegal immigration is really a symptom of even larger problems.

The criminal gangs that come here from abroad prosper and have more weapons than the governments of their home countries because of our "War on Drugs." Anytime a commodity is made illegal, it creates a black market in the product and gives organized criminals a monopoly on the product. In the case of addictive drugs, the "War on Drugs" has meant massive profits for gangs from Mexico, Columbia, El Salvador, as well as for terrorist groups from the Middle East.

If the present Drug Prohibition were lifted and consenting adults could get their fixes cheaply and easily from a local drug store or even grow their own, the foreign drug gangs and narco-terrorists would all be out of business and would either go legit or go home.

Also, the larger problem creating illegal immigration is our vast and generous Welfare State and the grinding poverty created by the semi-Socialist, semi-Fascist economies of Mexico and Central and South America.

If we shaved off and eventually eliminated our Welfare State, then any immigrants who came here would of necessity have to be self-sustaining or assisted by voluntary charity, not taxdollars. This would drive away the worst of the illegal immigrants and make the line to get in even easier to manage.

And if we could send some translated audio copies of the economic works of Ludwig von Mises, Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman, and Hernando de Soto to our neighbors, maybe the people of those nations would throw off the tyrants that keep them in poverty. They could build free-market economies of their own, and they wouldn't have to come to the U.S. out of desperation.

Spreading the ideas of free-market economics would not only put a dent in illegal immigration, but could mean that the next wave of people from abroad will be well-to-do tourists and rich businessmen. Free markets swept most of Eastern Europe within 18 years and it can happen again in the Americas, the Middle East, and Africa as well.

[TheUnboundOne]

Dear Pitdog,

You wrote:

I love Odinism because: One is to abide by the (just) laws of his land. If he chooses to BREAK the law, then the law no longer helps him.
For instance, if a man rapes a woman, he has broken the law (if rape is illegal) so therefore when her father and brothers come and kill him, they did not break the law, because he was no longer protected by it.
If they are illegal and not here legally they are breaking the law, so I do not believe they should be protected by it. ESPECIALLY if they are breaking the immigration laws in order to break OTHER laws.
Horrible? Unthinkable? I don't care.

Not horrible or unthinkable in theory, but very problematic in practice. It wouldn't be good for genuine U.S. Citizens if anyone could do anything to anyone merely suspected of being an illegal alien.

Self-defense is the right of every citizen, but retaliatory justice is best left to well-supervised, accountable officers and courts. No one knows who is illegal or who isn't until an officer is in the thick of a criminal situation, makes arrests, and demands IDs.

Once an illegal is found, I would agree with deporting that person immediately, assuming the illegal isn't caught committing other crimes. If the illegal is guilty of other crimes, especially violent ones, they can go into a whole pit of doggies for all I care.

;D

I think though, we need to also include making channels more streamlined and 'intelligent' to ALL potential immigrants, not just hispanics, and border security is a MUST regardless of who's feelings it hurts, there are MANY threats to us that can walk right into the heartland.

I agree here. We need to patrol both the Mexican border and the Canadian border and all of our coasts with outposts, gunships, planes with cameras and Geiger Counters, and satellites capable of seeing a fly's ace from 100 miles in space.

And I agree that illegal immigration isn't just done by Hispanics, nor are all Hispanics illegal. There are plenty of Russian, Chinese, Southeast Asian, Haitian, European, Middle Eastern, and every other type of illegal immigrant crossing our borders. And I have spoke with Hispanics who absolutely hate the chaos and death brought to our streets by illegal alien drunk drivers and want it stopped.

Illegal immigration is not an issue of "race," "ethnicity," or national origin, but of peaceful, honest citizens versus criminals, terrorists, and agents of tyranny.

[jim]

"No one knows who is illegal or who isn't until an officer is in the thick of a criminal situation, makes arrests, and demands IDs.
"

Not exactly true. I spot them all the time here in Texas. There might be some that are illegal and don't look it, but none that I've seen that are legal and look illegal. I I were in doubt, I'd err on the side of caution and asume they're natives. Besides, their Spanish sounds different. and no one is saying to do anything wrong to them but driving them out of the country AS THE GOVT. SHOULD BE DOING! is perfectly legal and just.

jim

[Theyeti]

It's funny how people of faith, usually meaning 'christians', are said to end up on the 'wrong' side of freedom. *It was a great majority of 'christians' (not deists) who banded together to create a nation 'of the people' as concieved against the King of England and the English Parliament. *It was 'christians' who realizing the error in their ways and how it was not in keeping with what they claimed to believe who pursued the abolishment of slavery (granted plenty of Southern christians were on the wrong side of that issue...) in the US and before that it was Christians in England who pursued it's abolishment in England and it's possessions.Doesn't sound like the 'wrong' side of freedom to me. *Karl Marx was decidedly not a christian...look what he gave birth to. *

As to the churches involved in these activities they had best review what 'The Bible' they claim to follow says about their behavior. *They should all check out Romans chapter 13, while some might say 'then how could God allow...' that is not necessary for us to know (that faith thing...silly I know). *It basically says that christians should strive to be good citizens and not deliberately break the law that is not unreasonable (as in immigration law). If they want to provide charity to Mexican nationals they should do that in Mexico. If they want to change immigration law they are welcome to try. *

The problem is PEOPLE, not religion, or politics. People decide to follow what course they choose however that choice is influenced. *Since a give creedence to the notion that people are basically self-interested and seen it proven over and over again that the fact that they make jerkwater decisions doesn't surprise me.

Hey Unbound...I think you're alright too.

[Pitdog]

Tanstafaal, there are NO responsible, WELL supervised, accountable or trustworthy or anything GOOD outfits to oversee and enforce anything in this country or world that I know of.
Yeti, we're still waiting on that haircut!

[TheUnboundOne]

Dear Pitdog,

You wrote:

Tanstafaal, there are NO responsible, WELL supervised, accountable or trustworthy or anything GOOD outfits to oversee and enforce anything in this country or world that I know of.

I fully admit that the present systems of courts and law enforcement are abysmal at enforcing the few just laws that exist. *That is why we U.S. Citizens have to watch the watchmen and remove them from their posts when they become homicidally negligent.

What it may come down to is the poor unfortunate U.S. Citizens who live along the border getting together and building their own walls...

or owners of beachfronts and harbors setting up their own checkpoints...

or employers fully automating and robotizing professions that attract illegals.

These are the only things I can think of at the moment that are a hair's length short from vigilantism and revolution.

[TheUnboundOne]

Dear theyeti,

You wrote:

It's funny how people of faith, usually meaning 'christians', are said to end up on the 'wrong' side of freedom. It was a great majority of 'christians' (not deists) who banded together to create a nation 'of the people' as concieved against the King of England and the English Parliament.

And every one of the Revolutionaries, whether Christian or Deist, were not only thought of by the Crown as traitors, but ipso facto as against the Church of England as well. So they were considered heretics too.

Also, John Locke, one of the inspirations of the Founding Fathers, was listed on the Roman Catholic Church's Index of Forbidden Books, an Index that was published as late as the 1960s. Clearly, the Mother Church didn't take too keen to the idea that government authority was delegated by the consent of the governed for the purpose of protecting life and property.

It was 'christians' who realizing the error in their ways and how it was not in keeping with what they claimed to believe who pursued the abolishment of slavery (granted plenty of Southern christians were on the wrong side of that issue...) in the US and before that it was Christians in England who pursued it's abolishment in England and it's possessions.Doesn't sound like the 'wrong' side of freedom to me.

Actually, what gave the green light to African slavery in the Western Hemisphere was that the Roman Catholic Church proclaimed that enslaving Africans was more "humane" than enslaving the Native Americans.

??? ::)

Also, according to Conservative free-market scholar Thomas Sowell, it was a secularist, humanist outlook (originating in the Renaissance and continuing in the Enlightenment) that first questioned the legitimacy of slavery. Humanistic thinkers were concerned for the condition of man's life on Earth and came to see slavery as a scourge on man's betterment.

Christian anti-slavery activists simply took their cue from this humanist worldview and gave it their own biblical agitprop. See this citation of Sowell's book Black Rednecks and White Liberals:

I Smell Religious Propaganda
http://transsurvivalist.blogspot.com/2007/02/i-smell-religious-propaganda.html

Karl Marx was decidedly not a christian...look what he gave birth to.

Marx and his followers were not Christian or Theists, but there were many Theist and Christian advocates of Communism long before Marx.

For example, Plato was a Theist and an advocate of a collectivistic Republic that inspired Socialist types throughout history, including both Communists and Nazis in the 20th Century. Also, there were the Dolcinites, an order of Monks who not only supported poverty for the monastic orders, but for the entire Church and society and they destroyed private property to live up to their ideals. Then, there were quite a few experiments in Christian Communism in the United States throughout the 1800s, most originating in New England.

The problem is PEOPLE, not religion, or politics. People decide to follow what course they choose however that choice is influenced. Since a give creedence to the notion that people are basically self-interested and seen it proven over and over again that the fact that they make jerkwater decisions doesn't surprise me.

Well I, for one, don't see how my self-interests (or anyone else's) are served by a government that doesn't protect life, liberty, and property from foreign invaders.

Hey Unbound...I think you're alright too.

I'm glad we can discuss even the most contentious things without getting too riled up. It makes the Forum worth coming back to again and again.

:)

[Theyeti]

Actually if we are going to give out first dibs credit for the abolishment of slavery that would have to go to a follower of Ahura-Mazda...Cyrus the Great. * :P

A Persian fellow.

[TheUnboundOne]

Dear theyeti,

You wrote:

Actually if we are going to give out first dibs credit for the abolishment of slavery that would have to go to a follower of Ahura-Mazda...Cyrus the Great. * *

A Persian fellow.

Hmm...I know that Cyrus the Great is much revered among Jews for letting them return to the Holy Land, and I know that the followers of Ahura-Mazda do not seek out or even want converts, so they wouldn't be engaged in Crusades or Jihad. *But I did not know Cyrus actually abolished slavery in his kingdom. *I'll have to read more about that.

The question then arises: How long did that last?

One thing to remember about slavery is that it is a form of plunder i.e. a plunder of a person's labor. *And even a believer in God like Frederic Bastiat observed that the only way plunder stops is when it is made more difficult and painful than labor. *If pain is not inflicted upon plunder, Bastiat pointed out, neither religion nor morality can stop plunder.

[Theyeti]

As to the Dolcinites...just because that order felt the way they did about private property doesn't make them right about it, spiritually speaking. That also doesn't make them communists(economically yes), in fact not by a long shot. By making the statement that a philosophy of public ownership or collective ownership makes one a communist is a bit of a simplification, though from a purely economic stand point I would have to agree.

Collective living has is merely a style of living economically speaking and is found throughout human history in various forms. I guess that the association with Marxism(and it's derivatives) is what is at odds with your statement. Most do not realize that communism as an economic model does not mean Marxism. One could live as a 'communist' but still have class distinction, in that there must always be a governing body or authority through which decisions for the commune are made. Direct democracy could be considered political communism, as everyones vote is of equal value and everyone gets to help in making a decision.

Frankly, real, pure communism cannot exist.

[Pitdog]

No it cannot................. because 'I' DO!

[TheUnboundOne]

Dear Pitdog,

There may be no 'I' in 'team,' but there sure is an 'I' in 'Pitdog'! And two 'I's in 'Pitdoggie' too!

;D

Rock on wit'cha bad selves, Pitdoggie, and keep using them Little Red Books as chew-toys!

;D ;)

[TheUnboundOne]

Dear Yeti,

You wrote;

As to the Dolcinites...just because that order felt the way they did about private property doesn't make them right about it, spiritually speaking. *That also doesn't make them communists(economically yes), in fact not by a long shot. By making the statement that a philosophy of public ownership or collective ownership makes one a communist is a bit of a simplification, though from a purely economic stand point I would have to agree.

You read me right about my definitions. *My definition of Communism used here was socio-economic. *When referring to Communism as practiced by Christians, I was referring to a socio-economic system with no private property, not to the Twentieth Century's Communist Party or to Marx', Engels', and Lenin's particular ideas of Communism.

Perhaps I should have distinguished the two by referring to the Christian version as "small-'c'" communism. *

Collective living has is merely a style of living economically speaking and is found throughout human history in various forms. I guess that the association with Marxism(and it's derivatives) is what is at odds with your statement. Most do not realize that communism as an economic model does not mean Marxism

You are correct here. *Marxism is just one of a long line of communist and socialist schools of thought. *

As I had mentioned to someone else on the Forum before, communism is really tribalism applied to economics, where everybody in the tribe throws everything they have in a pile and a Grand Poobah of the tribe ends up doing the distribution...and the control.

Direct democracy could be considered political communism, as everyones vote is of equal value and everyone gets to help in making a decision.

Democracy is where everyone is equal...until the majority votes for an elite or a dictator...or 50 percent plus 1 vote to throw 50 percent minus 1 into a guillotine or a gas chamber. *Like Madison said, democracies are as "short in their lives as they are violent in their deaths."

Frankly, real, pure communism cannot exist.


True again, but starry-eyed butcherers keep on squeezing us all into the sausage grinder trying to get the recipe right.

[Pitdog]

ALL dogs are equal, but Pitdogs are MORE equal!!!!
I cannot imagine what kind of Mud Spined mind numbed low life it takes to think that communism can work and for who?

I mean obviously it is easy to pick those who in some level of authority out and it is easy to understand why they would want a communist form of government - because they are the direct and more equal beneficiaries. However, for the person 'on the street' I cannot imagine giving my allegiance to something so painfully ill conceived and be naieve enough to believe it will benefit me!

Has the world gone totally mad?!?! Or am I just one of a few dying breed that will stand on their own two feet and do for themselves and fight for what IS truly good for the rest and NOT just himself (like Buck's mercenaries) ???

[TheUnboundOne]

Dear Pitdoggie,

You wrote:

ALL dogs are equal, but Pitdogs are MORE equal!!!!

If you endorse their product, the fine Capitalist firm of Ken-L Ration shares your pro-Pitdoggie sentiments...and even sponsors some Paganism to boot ;D :

Bewitched, sponsored by Ken-L Ration Dog Food
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwPqTuanjAk

I cannot imagine what kind of Mud Spined mind numbed low life it takes to think that communism can work and for who?

I mean obviously it is easy to pick those who in some level of authority out and it is easy to understand why they would want a communist form of government - because they are the direct and more equal beneficiaries. However, for the person 'on the street' I cannot imagine giving my allegiance to something so painfully ill conceived and be naieve enough to believe it will benefit me!

It is always the passive, the meek, the envious mediocrity who endorses communism, especially the one who not only never achieved anything, but who wants to bring others down to his level as well.

Has the world gone totally mad! Or am I just one of a few dying breed that will stand on their own two feet and do for themselves and fight for what IS truly good for the rest and NOT just himself (like Buck's mercenaries)

Doing for yourself and having healthy rational self-interest (that respects the self-interest of others) is what Capitalism is all about.

When everyone practices Capitalism, all the self-interests meet in the middle and ultimately everyone benefits, even when some particular transactions aren't always everything one might like.

That said, Pitdoggies would look kind of awkward standing on two feet...although it would put them in a better position to express anti-communist sentiment on some Red Guard's leg.

;D ;D ;D

[Theyeti]

I just had a thought...a truly terrifying idea I must admit...Anyhow, I would have to say that Unbound is on the same page concerning how many who do not understand the implications of a Communist/Socialist regimes and clamber for them are the financially or socially unmotivated.

Though the Bolsheviks seemingly tapped into the perpetrated abuses of the Czar and his regime (alleged and factual) and that frustration fomented into armed insurrection. Somewhat different than the armchair political theologians of today that want that type of governmental change to take place.

I have to disagree where capitialism is concerned. Pure capitalism is tantamount to economic and eventually political anarchy...both conditions are equally as dangerous as Communism. There will always be those who excel and those who do not. Somewhere in the mix are those who are so self-interested that they are malignant to everyone else. Unbound, you make a good point about 'rational self-intrerest'...problem is that isn't a popular commodity...it sometimes requires some major sacrifice to create that rationality.

It is strange that these notions can be voiced but are not put into practice...humanity's hardwire tends to work opposite...much like a fire greedily burns all until there is no fuel left or the fire is itself snuffed out by an outside force.

[TheUnboundOne]

Dear Yeti,

You wrote:

just had a thought...a truly terrifying idea I must admit...Anyhow, I would have to say that Unbound is on the same page concerning how many who do not understand the implications of a Communist/Socialist regimes *and clamber for them are the financially or socially unmotivated.

Though the Bolsheviks seemingly tapped into the perpetrated abuses of the Czar and his regime (alleged and factual) and that frustration fomented into armed insurrection. *Somewhat different than the armchair political theologians of today that want that type of governmental change to take place.

Unfortunately, the "armchair theologians" too often gave a green light to the worst predations of the Communists. *That whole Sermon on the Mount doesn't have much good to say about the productive, the ambitious, the inventive, the intelligent, the aspiring, or the accomplished.

Not without reason did the Communist Soviets keep the Russian Orthodox Church open to spy on dissenters. *Nor was it without reason that the Communist Soviets allowed Muslims in places like Khazakhstan and Turkmenistan to join the Party while still keeping their religion. *And not without reason does modern-day Red China have a state-established National Catholic Church. *Nor is it coin-key-dink that the only Communist State that flat-out banned all religion was Albania.

Much as modern Communists might speak against religion, they have found much that is useful in religion and have no qualms about using religion to get their subjects to submit.

I have to disagree where capitialism is concerned. *Pure capitalism is tantamount to economic and eventually political anarchy...both conditions are equally as dangerous as Communism. *There will always be those who excel and those who do not. *Somewhere in the mix are those who are so self-interested that they are malignant to everyone else.

Not at all. *Capitalism, by definition, recognizes and defends private property rights and the sanctity of voluntary contract. Thus, is the furthest thing from lawlessness. *Under Capitalism, the maintenance man and the C.E.O. and all others in between, have the equal right to earn, keep, and own 100% of the fruits of their respective labor.

Unbound, you make a good point about 'rational self-intrerest'...problem is that isn't a popular commodity...it sometimes requires some major sacrifice to create that rationality.

It doesn't have to be popular to work, only uninhibited by criminal and governmental coercion. *

It is strange that these notions can be voiced but are not put into practice...humanity's hardwire tends to work opposite...much like a fire greedily burns all until there is no fuel left or the fire is itself snuffed out by an outside force.

'Course, Capitalism allows individuals to own land and grow and raise their own trees or corn stalks and cobs or alcohol crops to use for fuel. *

:)

To give just one example of the bounties brought by Capitalism when it is unconstrained, Georgia Pacific owns its own land and raises its own trees for paper and practices re-planting and conservation instead of 'scorched earth' clear-cutting, to keep their capital supply alive and even expanding.

[Pitdog]

The problem, and we are running into it faster and faster.. ....
It also allows companies and business to grow to the point of controlling markets and not allowing other businesses to do business by being so large that no one can compete, OR using their money which is power to pass laws and ordinances and such that allow only THEM to operate. I have to admit to being a bit Socialist in some respects, I do not think companies like MARTS should be allowed to do business the way they do in so many small towns and areas
(for instance) I also believe if Yeti Staffl and I want to pool our limitless riches and make us an oil company, we should be able to, but really we can't........... it wouldn't be allowed.
There is such complication because as humans we can't be trusted, and there is currently no system that will provide for all comfortably in any sense of the word, so.....
until then, empires will rise and fall, and there will be revolutions and so forth and so on.

[flatwater]

First off I want to state that I am not a communist nor do I endorse it BUT Pure communisim does work better for third world countries then democracy does. BUT again pure communism does not last long enough to make it work because in third world countries you have dictators , warlords etc , etc. It doesn't work in a democracy because of people like myself , pitdog and most others hear at BWF
Flatwater

[TheUnboundOne]

Dear Pitdoggie,

You wrote:

The problem, and we are running into it faster and faster.. ....
It also allows companies and business to grow to the point of controlling markets and not allowing other businesses to do business by being so large that no one can compete, OR using their money which is power to pass laws and ordinances and such that allow only THEM to operate. I have to admit to being a bit Socialist in some respects, I do not think companies like MARTS should be allowed to do business the way they do in so many small towns and areas

But if a company uses law to keep competitors out of business, or uses tax dollars to get subsidies at the expense of competitors, that is not Capitalism, but Mercantillism or Fascism. Mercantillism is precisely what the great Capitalist Adam Smith wrote against in The Wealth of Nations and Fascism was and is also equally opposed by the modern pro-Capitalist Chicago School and Austrian School of Economics.

Under pure Capitalism (which by the way, has never fully existed, even in the early United States,) government's only role is to protect private property and to uphold contracts. A government under Capitalism has no power to restrain competition or to subsidize one group at the expense of another.

Under such a system, business can only get bigger by providing for customer demand in a manner that is more efficient and cheaper than competitors and it only remains big for as long as it can sustain this practice.

(for instance) I also believe if Yeti Staffl and I want to pool our limitless riches and make us an oil company, we should be able to, but really we can't........... it wouldn't be allowed.

It wouldn't be allowed by government taxation and regulations driven by Eco-Wacko pressure groups, but the other oil companies by themselves, without government laws, couldn't hold us back from doing so.


There is such complication because as humans we can't be trusted, and there is currently no system that will provide for all comfortably in any sense of the word, so.....
until then, empires will rise and fall, and there will be revolutions and so forth and so on.

But, as Thomas Jefferson observed, if individuals cannot be trusted to run their own lives, how then can they be trusted to run the lives of others, such as the rulers of a Communist, Socialist, Fascist, or Welfare State regime attempt to do with their citizens?

Capitalism, to be sure, is not a Utopian system that solves all problems. But Capitalism is an economic framework through which individuals can create and find solutions to their economic problems. All of the wealth, prosperity, and standards of living that we enjoy today only exists to the extent that individuals are free to work, produce, keep the results, save, and invest and that freedom is what Capitalism means.

By the way, TANSTAAFL is a Capitalistic acronym that means "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch." It is not my name or even my online handle, the latter is TheUnboundOne... though TANSTAAFL does have a nice Scandinavian sound to it and probably would make a great name. ;D

[TheUnboundOne]

Dear Flatwater,

You wrote:

First off I want to state that I am not a communist nor do I endorse it BUT Pure communisim does work better for third world countries then democracy does. BUT again pure communism does not last long enough to make it work because in third world countries you have dictators , warlords etc , etc. It doesn't work in a democracy because of people like myself , pitdog and most others hear at BWF
Flatwater

The people that actually live in the Thrid World would tell a very different story. *For example, Ethiopia, Somalia, and Zimbabwe (formerly Rhodesia) were once agricultural producer nations who exported food to other nations. *Ethiopia and Somalia were once called "The Horn of Africa" because they were a horn of plenty.

When Communism got a hold of those nations, they stopped production, became economic basket-cases, and the citizens who didn't leave starved and died by the millions.

As sick as it sounds, if a person's purpose is to murder people, Communism and Socialism work perfectly. *For all who want life, prosperity, and independence, such as us Backwoods Homeys, these systems never work.

[Theyeti]

You said Unbound:

"To give just one example of the bounties brought by Capitalism when it is unconstrained, Georgia Pacific owns its own land and raises its own trees for paper and practices re-planting and conservation instead of 'scorched earth' clear-cutting, to keep their capital supply alive and even expanding."


I live in a town that "enjoys" Georgia Pacific's "beneficial" business and enviromental practices. Granted, they are in many ways different than say, Weyerhaeuser (which really put the fork to my hometown), but they still have many un-endearing traits common amongst timber companies.

[bookwormom]

By the way, TANSTAAFL is a Capitalistic acronym that means "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch." It is not my name or even my online handle, the latter is TheUnboundOne... though TANSTAAFL does have a nice Scandinavian sound to it and probably would make a great name. Grin

well knock me over with a feather. I thought it went very well with your picture as it means dancing devil.


quote
As I had mentioned to someone else on the Forum before, communism is really tribalism applied to economics, where everybody in the tribe throws everything they have in a pile and a Grand Poobah of the tribe ends up doing the distribution...and the control.


so as long as you feel part of the tribe, as your extended ego, grown out of the extended family, this has worked very well. Also on a voluntary basis in religious orders, for instance. But, things are forever changing...and human nature throws monkey wrenches into the works..

I can't see though that the problems Zimbabwe faces are caused by applied Communism.

[TheUnboundOne]

Dear Bookwormom,

You wrote:

well knock me over with a feather. I thought it went very well with your picture as it means dancing devil.

Hmm...That was quite a coincidence. Well, since you learned a new acronym from me, could I learn from you which language has "Tanstaafl" as the word for "dancing devil"?

so as long as you feel part of the tribe, as your extended ego, grown out of the extended family, this has worked very well.

But notice who always ends up with control in any such communal arrangement. And notice also just how impoverished the bulk of human history has been under such an arrangement...and what happens when two or more tribes want the same communal turf for themselves.

Also on a voluntary basis in religious orders, for instance. But, things are forever changing...and human nature throws monkey wrenches into the works..

While it is true that communistic life is voluntary for religious bodies such as the monastic orders of the Roman Catholic Church, and for other communal arrangements in the U.S., there is something else to observe about them.

These communal arrangements cannot sustain themselves at the same living standards or technological level of the rest of society without outside help. They either trade and have jobs with the outside society or they depend on charity, which always comes from the surplus wealth generated as a result of practicing Capitalism. Monastic orders certainly don't make their own automobiles or laptop computers or other modern technology they often use.

I can't see though that the problems Zimbabwe faces are caused by applied Communism.

Robert Mugabe, the dictator of Zimbabwe since 1980, was and is an admitted, no-bones-about-it, Marxist-Leninist Communist and, like others rulers of his ideology, he brought nothing but squalor and oppression to his people. Here are some profiles on him:

Robert Mugabe, Zimbabwe Strongman
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/643737.stm

Robert Mugabe Zimbabwe: The World's Worst Dictators 2007
http://www.parade.com/articles/web_exclusives/2007/02-11-2007/dictators07.html

Robert Mugabe-Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe

[davidlj]

Throw every one of them out of the country

[BrentL]

I love Odinism because: One is to abide by the (just) *laws of his land. If he chooses to BREAK the law, then the law no longer helps him.
..
.



this is the original concept of OUTLAW or OUTSIDE the LAW.

it was excommunication from the law, or expulsion, or banishment. it is a great concept if applied correctly.

[davidlj]

Landmines that will keep them out. After the first 1000 or so no more problems in the Southern boarder areas. ;D