Family living - like it used to be

[rockymtngirl]

I have seen several articles in various sites about this topic.
It used to be that many families lived in the same household - grandparents, parents, children, etc. All contributed to the wellness of the family unit overall - whether it was working outside the home, taking care of children/home.

So here is my real and current situation: Daughter and her BF decided recently to buy a house - mostly on BF job and salary (he is a union pipefitter). All seemed well. There was a delay in the closing - so they came to live with me pending their final paper work/inspection - along with my son who had been renting a room from them in their previous rental home.

Well, you know this had to happen - BF lost job, loan fell through. Now they have no place to live. My landlord came by today for one of his 'pop' inspections of the house (we take very good care of his property and have added several improvements at our expense). so landlord states - hey you can't have these extra folks living here on a permanent basis (this was never our intent). of course my daughter is very upset about the situation - she is very responsible and does not want to have to 'depend' on mom for anything.

As it currently stands I am not in the best financial situation - my BF is out of work so I am sole provider. It seems apparent that our landlord does not want to negotiate having additional tenants in the house. The economy in Denver is pretty crappy - just like the rest of the country.

What bothers me about this is that when I first moved into this house both by son and daughter were living with me. The only difference is daughters BF (who happens not to be of caucasian ancestry). Also that landlord just 'shows up' whenever he feels like it - not that we have anything to hide - but geez - we do pay our rent on time every month - how about a little consideration for that after 4 years?

Well - mostly I am just venting - but we are facing a difficult situation and one which I think most people of my generation (born '62) have never dealt with - multiple generations living permanently in the same household. Honestly, not something I prefer - I've raised my kids and do like having my own space - they are still in their 20's and do what we all did when we were that age.

Has anyone else faced this challenge? Thanks for any comments/thoughts you have

RMG

[johnjmw]

My parents had a standing rule, out the door by 35. I think I was about the last to leave who actually lived there and I was out at 25. Another brother of mine was a professional college student for a while and he might have been there longer but was only home during the summers and what not. But most importantly we all helped out around the house. Gardening, lawn care, trash, you know even in the city where we lived (on a 1/2 acre) there are still lots of things that need to get done.
As far as the landlord goes, just let him know that it is only temporary. Of course we don't know how long this downturn is going to last. I would think that if you have been there 4years and been paying on time and taking care of the place he should understand. Just my opinion
John

[rantinraven]

RMG,
I am sorry to hear of your troubles. It seems that when it rains here it comes a dog gone downpour. A quick fix to the solution since you and your daughter and son all lived in the home when you first began renting it, regardless of who has moved out sense. Have your daughters boyfriend put "his things" (identifying objects such as clothes) in the car. Then when the landlord comes by next you can tell him, Daughters BF doesn't live here he lives in his car, naturally he wants to spend time with his fiance so he parks his car in the driveway to see her. I think after 4 years you should get ALOT of consideration, I don't think the landlord really appreciates the asset he has. I also don't think he is thinking of what would happen if you decided to up and leave, as the economy surely isn't great and he might have a real hard time getting someone back in there that is so faithful with the money.... Keep your head up hun, you guys will find a way. Raven

[TNDadx4]

RMG,

I just wanted to write and encourage you. Although I am not in your situation, I can sympathize. I am sorry that you are going though this. It must be hard enough supporting everyone, but to have this piled on top really stinks.

John and Raven are right. Your landlord should understand. Since it's only one more person and you keep the place up and pay on time, he should have no problem at all.

Keep your chin up. You'll get through this!

[MissouriFree]

RMG,

I just wanted to write and encourage you. Although I am not in your situation, I can sympathize. I am sorry that you are going though this. It must be hard enough supporting everyone, but to have this piled on top really stinks.

John and Raven are right. Your landlord should understand. Since it's only one more person and you keep the place up and pay on time, he should have no problem at all.

Keep your chin up. You'll get through this!

I agrree with this ..

Seems like the only way the landlord could say anything is if the number of occupants exceeded to the maximum occupany that the township did when they inspected( if that happened in you area) If it is a rental someimes the sticker is on the inside of a kitchen cabinent..

I know about kids coming back.

[EarthMama]

Are these "pop" surprise checks a legal thing? *Is in it your lease agreement? *I wouldn't think a landlord could do that. *Pardon me cos I haven't read the rest of the thread... just reacting to what's been said in the initial post.

Heck yeah, people were in this predicament in the 1930s, during the Depression. *My mom talked about it all the time, God rest her soul. *They had a big ole house and took in boarders upstairs, to bring in extra money, and also took in kids and their spouses and children, who needed a place to stay.

It was called survival back then... and still is today. *The only unfortunate thing is that you don't own your home... you rent... and the landlord, in all honesty, has a right to say how many families he wants living in his house. *So it's a double-edged sword. *Not easy on anybody.

I wish you well.

[Anon001]

I agree with the others. This is a shame and people should be more understanding. *But the only idea I would have a hard time with is lying to the landlord. *If he ever did find that you had lied, it would not help the situation. *

Also, basically he owns the place and has the right to limit who lives there. *I'm sure he just doesn't want it to become a haven of more people than house. *He is probably worried that your kids have become irresponsible and have come back to roost and bum off mom..... *not the type of person any landlord wants. *If that is the way he feels, then he is worried that the non-responsible ones (in his eyes) will trash his place. *I've seen it happen many times.

I'm not saying your daughter is not responsible, but in his eyes,....how does he know.

I think it stinks, but, unless there is something in your lease, then tell him to buzz off. *Also, in most states, landlords are limited by state law in whether (and how often) they can enter the premises once there is a tenant. *If you have written lease, it may state how many people can live there. *Also, it may even state how many adults (vs. minor children) may live there. *If so, then you have but two options.... to move your daughter out or all of you find a new place. *But, you say he comes around much too often. *If he is coming into the house, check with the state law to see how much free reign he has concerning that. *In some states he is not allowed to enter without your permission because you are paying for the rights of occupancy, not him. *Also, if he feels the needs to enter, in some states, he must first let you know in writing and make an appointment convenient for both parties.

Is this in town or in the country? *If your area is like my area, for a renter, it is really difficult to find a home in the country to rent. *There are more people wanting to rent farm houses, than there are farm houses.

I certainly wish you the best and maybe you should just talk to him and tell him it is temporary until they get back on their feet.

Good luck.

Edited for typos.

[Saoirse]

Yes, I also sympathize with your plight. However, looking at both sides of the issue:
The landlord sounds as though he cares about his property. Better than renting from an absentee landlord.
The old saying about catching more flies with honey comes to mind. Perhaps those that are unemployed could offer to do free repairs or maintenance around the home in exchange for staying there temporarily. This could be painting, tuckpointing, landscaping --- whatever skills they possess. (They could offer to pay him, but money is tight.) They should also tell him that they are moving out by a certain date, so that he can see a light at the end of the tunnel. The landlord will be much easier to get along with if he is somehow profiting from the situation. I'm sure he doesn't want to evict a good long term tenant, but he sounds worried about his investment. By offering to accept responsibility for the property and by revealing their plans for a better future, your guests will hopefully be more welcome.

[Anon001]

Saoirse has a good idea, but maybe your future sil could even do maintenance or repairs if he has other rental properties as well as the one you live in.

[tufhelp]

The landlord does not necessarily have the “right” to limit the number of people who reside there. You find that in most states and larger cities there are very stringent rules for the landlord/tenant situations. Be polite of course, but do not take anything that the landlord says to be gospel – it probably isn’t. Here in New Mexico and Albuquerque, the landlords virtually have their hands tied. Inspection visits must be announced and arranged at times suitable for to the tenant.

In Colorado (from the Colorado Division of Housing web page on Tenants Rights)

"Trespass by Landlord - The tenant has the right to peaceful enjoyment of the property, but this right can be modified by the lease. Unless the lease provides otherwise, the landlord does not have a right to enter the property without permission of the tenant except to demand payment of rent or to make emergency repairs. A tenant can sue a landlord for violating the tenant's rights."

Counseling Services
If you need further assistance, contact Tenant Landlord Counseling at (303) 237-0230 or Community Housing Services at (303) 831-1935.

CO Division of Housing Site (http://www.dola.state.co.us/cdh/researchers/documents/Advances/tenant-l.htm)

"13-40-101. Forcible entry and detainer defined...
(3) If any person enters upon or into any lands, tenements, mining claims, or other possessions by force or by threats of violence, or words or actions which have a natural tendency to excite fear or apprehension of danger, and intimidates the party entitled to possession from returning upon or possessing the same, such person so offending is guilty of a forcible entry within the meaning of this article."


Colorado Landlord Tenant Law (http://www.federal-services.com/laws/costatelaw.html[/url)

Tenants can’t prevent inspection, but “pop by” on the spur of the moment inspections are in all likelihood not allowed, even though you’re renting his property, it is your home, and you have a lot of rights – find out what they are. If you have a lease, read it over carefully, and again here, the stuff in the lease must be legal and take into consideration your tenant rights. If the lease doesn’t spell out the “regulations” he is probably inventing, he doesn’t get a do over because he acts landlordly. Relatives “visiting” you probably are not held to any schedule for length of stay, unless there are covenants and a homeowner's association situation.

The best thing is with a little research on line and in your community (tenant’s rights groups) you can find out all of this stuff for free – no need to get legal help. Should you need legal help and you have a leg to stand on, you may even be able to get that for free – It may not be so where you are, but it is in most places. Tenant rights are strong and usually well documented. You’re paying this guys mortgage, and if you’re taking care of the place and improving it, he should be bending over backwards for you, especially if the market is soft for rentals.

Good luck and find out about your rights – the sooner the better!

Google: Tenants Rights in Colorado" for a start...

[MYellowRose]

RMG unless you have a lease stating the landlord can make these "spot inspections" you don't have to let him in the door! Also check your lease to find out if it says anything about how long people can stay on a visit or how many can visit at one time. If it's not in the lease he can't enforce it. If he tries to evict you over this, as long as it's not in your lease, he will lose out especially if you can prove you've been a good, cooperative tenant for all the years you've been there.
Check it out.

[indyguy]

In the state of Indiana you can limite the number of people living in a rental to only the number stated in the lease.

anyone else visiting or staying the night must be gone after 48 hrs.

if no lease and your renting on a month to month basis landloard cant do a thing about the number of people unless it becomes a health hazard.

[Anon001]

I agree with the last three postings, but I should add one more thing. If you don't have a written lease he can in many states, give you 30 days written notice to vacate. I hope you have a contract.

But, "kill em with kindness". But also keep in mind that when you started renting, your daughter's bf was not part of the deal and under most circumstances is considered a guest. I know some leases will allow a visitor for up to one week. But, I would say you are looking at two different set of possible situations based on whether you have a written lease.

But ideally, if you like the place, you should try to get along with him and if he won't budge, then I would say the bf has to go because the landlord originally rented to your family....i.e. you, your husband and two children.

Good luck

[jebrown]

rockymtngirl
You might consider doing some research on residential occupancy with the House of Urban develpoement and the Federal Housing Authority.
www.hud.gov.
If the state has rental regulations that contradict federal regulation then the federal regulations prevail. There are laws on landlord entry in many states that do require prior written notice and a time for visitation has to be agreed to by both parties in advance.
Just because it is written in a lease does not mean you have to agree to it if it goes against any city, state or federal regulations.
Pop in visits are not allowed even if it is in a lease.
If you know the regulations and you prevent him from doing something against the regulations that is not a sufficient reason to evict you. If he says he is evicting you because there are to may people in the house that still may not be sufficient reason. Then you hurt his cause by relating the number of times he pops in. Excessive pop ins leagal or not weakens his cause. They can also be considered to be harrasment on his part. In some communities this may be sufficient reason for a restraining order against him.
Start a record of his visits and the reason he says he is there and what he says even if it is only to collect the rent. When he shows up insist that he provide reason for the visit regardless of why he is there. Having witnesses may or may not help but it never hurts to have them present.
Witnesses present may change what he says to you if it could be deemed illegle. No matter how many people are living with you the fact is you have made improvements or repairs without cost to him and the fact that you are not destroying the property will count heavily on your side if he tries to evict you.
laws and regulations varyn from commuity to community. Your best option is to learn what they are where you are so you will know what can and can't be done.
Remeber what he tells you is only in his best interest but what he says may not be true.
Also do some invetigting some communities have renter groups who may be able to help and sometimes legal advisors who may help you pro bono.
I wish you and your family the best of luck.

[BrightFlower]

rockymountaingirl, if I'm not mistaken, you said when you first moved into the house it was you, your son and your daughter and now it is you and your BF, your daughter and her BF, and your son. That is an increase of two more people and more cars in the driveway? Maybe it looks like more to the landlord than it really appears.

I would agree with the others. Check the lease and go from there. Good Luck for sure.

[Saoirse]

Why would you want to get the government or a lawyer involved in something you can resolve without this sort of intervention? Sure, there are laws in place, but why go that route when a simple conversation may work out better for all. You should know what your rights are and what your lease (if any) states, but there is no reason to get tough unless you have to.
You have known the man for 4 years. Talk to him before you go that route. Hopefully, you can work something out until the situation improves.
What would your kids and future son in law do if you suddenly could not provide for them? This needs to be addressed before you stress yourself to the point of illness.
One person, no matter how strong, can only handle so much.
Wishing you the best!

[huckelberry]

i dont think i would tolerate the landlord telling me anything,as long as the rent is paid...otherwise id look for a new home...you always have a choice...let the other fellow tell you how its gonna be or you tell him...i dont like be,ein told myself...good luck ;)

[MissouriFree]

RMG,

those that suggest that working it out with the landlord have the right idea. do not let it become adversarial. to many on this forum just want to make everything a fight. First make sure you are on solid legal ground. Like Paul, said the landlord doesn't know your family land is probably worried about about what his investment is becoming.- who know maybe he see a commune showing up.
1. read you lease thoroughly.
2. make sure the occupancy isn't limited bu the ruling local authority. they usually use BOCA ( as he guideline. I live in a 1 bedroom rental and the max occupancy is 2. that is what it usually is 2 people per bedroom. If there is a code in your area, the landlord is obligated to follow the law or he loses his permit to rent (and make money) so contrary to what some have said here ,, he does have the right to limit how many live there.

if all these are ok then as Saoirse say try to work it out and demonstrate that you are the good people that we know you to be.

mo free

happy easter

[rockymtngirl]

Hi all - all our extra 'guests' moved out on Friday. I called our landlord after mailing our rent check to let him know that they had moved. Haven't heard a peep from him since he did his walk thru last month. So all is well.
I must say after 45 days with 3 young adults I was ready for them to move!

RMG

[MissouriFree]

Great Glad it worked out,, I know about young ( relatively speaking) *coming back and bet you are relieved.

happy easter

mofree

[bewarner]

OK so the whole family living with each other, folks hold on it is going to happen more and more. This is coming from the side where my mother lived with us after dad passed away, she did buy her own house 2 yrs ago. Guess what we are getting ready to move in with her tell we get our house built and then she probably come live with us and rent hers out. Its been both hard and a blessing in many ways. One thing I can say, after the initial shock we all certainely used it to our advantage. We help each other out in every way, gardening, canning, child care, etc... As far as the land lord thing, well prob chalk it up to another person trying to get more out of the under advantaged during hard times. We have several friends some of wich dont have alot of money and some seriosely unethical, low down, dirty things are common place as of current. Examples are the local utility companyy is not sending out past due or disconnect notices (hmmm reconnect fees???) oh and by the way it is not against the law in Iowa to turn the power and gas off on elderly or people with children when its -30 or 110 and yes it happens. We have heard banks are finding (creative) ways for getting insuffeciant fund charges (commercial loan payments are tanked and banks arnt showing a profit so guess what) A blind lady got her water shut off here for being .01 short (YES you read it correct this maid the news) companies are laying people off just to hire others for a couple dollers less an hour we got benefits yanked from us (that was the final straw) So in essence we are in a time where if you find yourself at the mercy of anyone else for anything they will probably try to squeeze even more out of you. They tried raising my property taxes (LOL real estate is tanked) so of course I had to dispute that Iowa is trying to pass a tax law that we have to pay state income taxes on our federal returns. Oh on the local news tonight they are incouraging people to use their credit cards and take advantage of the good reward points you earn (WHAT?????)So my guess is your land lords also upset about the loss of equity in his rental and figures if hes not getting ahead no one else is, if he was just "concerned" about his property he could of just told you he was going to come buy for bi-weekly or monthly check ups, usually rental agreements in CO have a sub section in them giving him the right to come by for non emergency with a 24 hr notice (I am CO native) He obviousely dont care about the well being of the tenate, maybe he shouldnt forget there is like 1,000,000,000 rentals and houses available right now and oh ya mayby he would like to have fun rolling the dice to find out if he would get another tenate that pays their rent on time for 4yrs or maybe he wants just to let it sit empty and let the rodents take it over while he tries to find sutable renters and pays taxes on his property that is worth what it was 5 yrs ago LOL. OH ya my mother thanks us at least once a week for being here for her and not just leaving her all alone

[DavidOH]

Yup, in my house I had Mom, Brother, Sister and Nephew.
The one person who wasn't living there was ME! ;D

Oh, and Brother, Sister-in-law, and nephew were in my OTHER house. ::)