alcohol for cars

[anastasia]

had any one heard about alcohol? is it easier to make than diesel? i heard that cars in brazil run in alcohol
how can you make alcohol from waste products for instance? also in which other ways you can make alcohol?

[anastasia]

:) ;)

[dannanchieftain]

Achohol or Ethanol can be used to fuel vehicles. Some gasoline vehicles require some extensive modifications to do so,although some vehicles are being produced that are 85% ethanol compatible.

Ethanol is made from fermenting the sugars and starches from plant materials and then distilling the fermented mixture to remove water and other unwanted substances. It can be made from any material containing starches or sugars. There is also reseach being done to produce cellulostic Ethanol which is Ethanol produced from stuff like grass,wheat stalks,sawdust etc...

It is a labor intensive process to produce Ethanol and you must use energy in the form of heat to produce it. on a do it yourself basis I dont think its cost effective.I have experimented with it and cant get the numbers down. On an industrial scale it only costs a little less to produce than it does gasoline.

On the upside it is a cleaner fuel and is totally renewable. I believe we will see more Ethanol production and research as fuel prices rise in the coming years.

I believe the diesel fuel alternative to be more cost effective and easier to produce fuel. Dr. Rudoph Diesel, the inventor of the diesel engine, never new what diesel fuel was in fact he was dead before even a drop of diesel was used in a diesel engine. His engine ran on peanut oil. Diesel fuel was made later after his death. It was a by product of the gasoline refining process originally called "drip"

A diesel engine can run on vegetable oil,hydraulic fluid,kerosene,used motor oil and a number of other substances with very little modification and no loss in performance. I run a 50/50 mix of diesel and waste oil products in my tractor and the only modification was the addition of an extra fuel filter and a fuel water separator.Some trucking companies even filter and put thier waste oil in thier fuel tanks on their trucks to reduce environmental disposal costs and stretch thier fuel dollars.For the ones that do it, Everytime a semi truck has an oil change the oil is filtered and put right into the fuel tank. It doesnt seem like much but the big rigs hold between 8 an 15 gallons of oil and the oil has to be changed regularly. multiply the frequency of oil changes times thousands of trucks in large fleets and that amounts to a lot of waste oil.

[bee_pipes]

I looked into ethanol a few months ago. Before the recent dip in gas prices, during the election, and because of the Katrina spike in prices, I was getting concerned about it. I met a fellow that powers his big pickup (a dually) with bio diesel. Fine for him, but both my vehicles use gas, and there are sundry appliances that I am still dependent on that use gas.

On the plus side, it turns out newer vehicles can be converted to ethanol. Back in the 70's when ethanol last got a close look, there were too many rubber parts in the fuel system to handle ethanol - they would melt. Since then these parts have been replaced by plastic that would be unaffected. Happiest news of all, the computer controlled, fuel injection systems are open to hacking. Rather than retooling a carburetor, you modify engine operation with software or additional plug-in electronics. This adjusts timing to keep the injectors open longer, compensating for the amount of power provided by ethanol. Likewise, chainsaws, generators, tractors and other gasoline powered devices can be modified for ethanol by boring out the carburetor jets.

The feds will give you a permit to produce fuel (ATF or whatever they call themselves now), necessary to avoid penalties. Basically, you are making moonshine. We even have a supplier in the region that manufactures reflux-stacks for sale, to use in producing ethanol. They will help with permit and getting started, but they are in business to sell you things.

There have been news stories the last 6 months or so about old breweries, long shut down and out of business, reopening and retooling to produce ethanol. This has resulted in jobs for locals, out of work since the brewery closed - that's a good thing.

The bad news is that the amount of crop it would take to produce an adequate supply of ethanol to meet all my needs is beyond my current abilities. Wheat looked good, but my entire year would be devoted to growing the wheat and converting it to ethanol. It has potential for chainsaw and generator, but long term, I'm thinking a pair of donkeys for transportation. There won't be anywhere to go anyway - when the petroleum runs out, there will be no more restocking the grocery in town.

It is worthwhile to learn what you can about ethanol and bio-diesel, evaluate for yourself if it is practical or not in your instance. The petroleum companies are going to actively discourage it until they have wrung the last dollar from the last drop of crude. Prices for E85 (?) the gas pump ethanol alternative are competitive with gasoline, but there is no major windfall in savings.

Regards,
Pat

[Tightwad]

One point in discussions about fuel supplies that is
all to often overlooked is the population density in
any given country or place.

When the oil run very low or out the number of living
humans on the planet will be billions greater than the
population prior to the advent of oil & electricity. This
number will skew the outcome and lifestyle of all who
are a alive at that time in ways unknown. A really
big unknown.

It may, until the population is thinned, be impossible
to survive with horse & buggy ways. Bio-fuels or not.

[dannanchieftain]

There is absolutely no good reason why we cant use Biofuels/Alternative Energy sources and still maintain the lifestyle we currently have.

Big Oil is still pulling the strings and thats why we are still on dinosaur juice.

If money,research and effort were put into Alt energy on a large scale a lot of the world problems would be solved.