Setting up camper

[Wildman]

I want to set up my 16 foot camper with solar and wind power. I need to know exactly what I need to set it all up and make it work. What components, what order of hookup, how big a batter bank, solar array, wind turbine?? I plan on using 12 volt lighting, and other 12 volt items. 12 volt current usage is 2.9, and 2.5 Amp draw, and at the most 3, 12 volt lights running at the same time. The type of light bulbs used in tale lights and blinkers. Also advise on water heating ideas. Thanks, Wildman.

[Anon001]

Wildman,

I'm sure 12vman will chime in. Do you use any other 12v items such as a tv, radio, ....anything at all. Are you going to use any 110v items? The type of lights you use are what are common in older campers... I don't know if they use those in newer campers. If memory serves me correctly, those light bulb use 18 watts EACH. You would be better off switching out those light fixtures for screw-in bulbs and use 13 watt compact flourescent bulbs. Or, do like I did and make cold cathode tubes work. (12vman turned me onto those.)

Make a list of everything you will use. Will you use a computer?

In almost all situations, you want solar for your primary energy source. (there are exceptions) Wind should be used as backup.

The order of components: solar array (panels) > fuse > charge controller > batteries > fuse block > loads. If you plan to use anything on 110v AC, you would insert an inverter prior to the AC loads.

But, for anyone to assist you, you need to list EVERY item you will be using, how much time per day each will be used... the area of the country you live in. You can't determine the size of system without taking these steps first.

As to hot water? I use an RV water heater in the house. When I was living in my camping trailer, I already had my 500 gallon propane tank and piped it to the trailer. I was able to use the RV water heater then as well. You can use 20 (5gal), 30, 40, and 100 (20gal) pound bottles, but they cost much much more per gallon to fill.

Paul

[Wildman]

My camper is an older unit. I will be running lighting and the couple other items I mentioned, and maybe a couple fans in the summer, and I almost forgot a small pump, and maybe a small air compressor like what you carry in your car. I have a windup radio, NO TV, dont need it, and when I resort to the camper I dont see any need for the computer anylonger as I wont be near an internet hookup and not willing to spend the money for a satelite hookup. I do plan to install a wood cookstove in there also, and really dont want to have to deal with propane if I can get away from it. I current reside in Northwest Montana, but that could change as I desire, I have nothing strapping me down here. The reason for living out of my camper is to put away enough money to buy a nice peace of land in the next couple years, big enough to raise a few animals and a nice garden. Hoping to find around 80 acres of workable land. I could get by with 40 just fine but wood for heat and a cozy little cabin is the 80 acre issue. Sick of being strapped to the system through the grid, gas and oils. Time to go Wild. Wildman

[Wildman]

On the subject of hot water for my camper what is your opinion of converting a small 110v water heater to 12v? I have come across a 200w, 300w and 600w 12v elements. I have a small 110v water heater with one element but I dont recall how many gallons it is without pulling the cover off the cabinet. I may have to do that later. Thanks for all the help I can get. Wildman

[Wildman]

Paul: the fuse you listed just after the solar array, what type and size fuse would I want at that point?

Wildman

[Anon001]

Wildman....

WOW... several things to mention. No you don't want to convert the 110v water heater. The reason being is that the amount it would cause you to have to increase the size of your solar wouldn't be worth it. Also, the 5 gal RV propane water heaters are designed for efficiency. That is why I chose to use it for the household water heater. I don't leave it lit. I only light the pilot about 10 minutes or so before I need hot water. I bought my water heater at an auction for $8.00. It looked brank new. The thing is that you want to stay away from anything that causes heat by a direct short type of thing... such as any type of heating element or any type of "filament" such as you find in incandescent light bulbs... That is also why your very small turn signal light bulbs use 18 watts of power and puts out not nearly as much light as a CFL. So, I would definitely not want a 12v heating element of any kind.

As far as a small pump, it depends on what type you have. The older camping trailer I had actually used a small air compressor instead of a pump. It filled the water tank with air, pushing the water out. It went out shortly after I moved it up here. I then bought a shurflow diaphragm pump and a couple 5 gallon pressure tanks. One would have worked but I got a bargain on the two.

A wood cookstove? I have no idea how you will be able to fit one in there safely. So, that I won't comment on. If it is summer and you were trying to avoid propane, I would cook outside on a fire.

The fuses..... I use a fuse block that uses the round fuses just like you use to find in your older cars and pickups. I don't know how old your camper is, but mine had the same type fuses. It is also the type of fuses and block that I bought to use in the house.

You land? You are very mobile and you like it that way... Here, land has gone down. You can buy undeveldped land for $800 an acre and up. The smaller the parcel, the higher the price per acre. I bought 40 last summer for $1125 per acre. It is half pasture and half timber. Enough wood to burn a lifetime... But, I won't be moving over there. And ... NO.... it's not flat and barren here. lol Far from it. I'm not trying to convince you of this area, but just to point out that good fertile land with pasture, timber, creek, spring, etc, does not have to cost an arm and a leg.

However, you still need to do one thing. You must sit down and right out EVERY item you will use and how much time per day you will use it. If you use some a total of 7 hours per week, put down 1 hour per day... But, to accurately know what you need, you MUST not skip this step. This is the best way to utilize your dollar per amps in setting up a system. People can tell you to go buy the items, but it is a shot in the dark. The only way to know what you need in solar is to know what you use as accurately as possible. If you use a fan 6 hours a day/24 hours for 3 months... average that out per day per year.... This is the only way anyone can honestly help you. It isn't easy. It takes a lot of time to sit and think of what you will be using and how many hours per day on average you will use it.

I like what you are doing.... I think it's the best way to save enough to buy a place of your own.

Paul

[12vman]

Don't plan to heat water with solar panels! (PV) That would be a VERY expensive endeavor.. :o

Consider propane for now. Maybe later when you get things built, implement or plan for a wood fired unit..

Before you go buying a bunch of stuff, examine your wants or loads and build from there. Avoid all A.C. powered things as much as possible. It's much more efficient to run things direct from your battery than to invert..

[Wildman]

12VMan:
I plan to run DC power only no AC. Paul stated using a fuse between the PV and the charge controler. But I am not sure what size fuse to use at that point. Another question I have as well is about a dump load. What and how do I hook this up? how is it wired in? Are the charge controlers set up with an output to connect a dump load for when the batteries are at full charge? I have searched for a wire diagram and have found nothing. If someone could give me a breakdown on the wiring steps for each component DC power output only with no inverter. One last question. Do I need a voltage regulator out to the DC loads??
Wildman

[12vman]

The size of fuse between your panel(s) and the charge controller will be gaged according to the amount of wattage that you have. It's not necessary to put a fuse in this part of the circuit, IMO. Just a disconnect of some type just in case you would need to work on something.

Not all charge controllers have the dump load option. Most of the smaller units just "Shunt" or internally "Short Out" the excess power to avoid overcharging the battery. If you don't plan to have a larger system, (2k watts+) I wouldn't worry about this feature. You wouldn't be producing enough power to do much of anything else but to charge a battery.

Understand that you have 3 separate circuits. (A)One being between the panel(s) to the charge controller, (B)another being between the charge controller and the battery, (C)and another being the load(s) connected to the battery.

(A): Don't worry about a fuse in this circuit It's isolated from the battery by the charge controller. Just have a disconnect of some type, just in case..

(B): Fuse accordingly to the size of the charge controller. If the controller will handle 10 amps of panel, fuse at 10 amps between the battery and the controller.

(C): Fuse all loads connected to the battery according to their usage.

You don't need a voltage regulator from the battery to your loads. If the item(s) that you plan to use operate at 12 v.d.c., you'll be fine.. ;)

[12vman]

Don't overlook the proper wire gage (http://sunelco.com/documents/wireloss12volt.pdf) for each application.

If you read the fine print at the top, this chart shows a "One Way Wire Run" from the battery to the load. I believe that it was designed for car stereo guys, being the ground connection can be connected at or near the load. This doesn't hold true in a solar set up. You must supply the ground via wire..

If you know the amount of current that you will be needing for your application at any given point and you know the distance or length of wire you will be using, just double the current (amps) or the length and then use the chart. Using too small gage of wire is a huge fire hazard when using D.C.

[Wildman]

12vman:
Could you explain how to wire in a 12 volt dump load? Using both solar and wind to power the camper. to begin with my battery bank will not be real big and would like to be able to use any extra power for something 12 volt. Again I am only going to be running DC power usage only. Thanks, Wildman

[12vman]

Does the charge controller that you own have this function?

The dump load feature diverts the unused power to an external load, such as a heating element, instead of just shorting it out internally.

[Wildman]

12vman:
No; my current charge controller does not have this function. Do I need a controller with this function?
Wildman

[12vman]

Yes you do..