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  #1  
Old 02-22-2010, 11:43 AM
patience patience is offline
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Exclamation Govt Wants Your 401K

Quote, from http://tickerforum.org/cgi-ticker/akcs-www?post=128922

"You did the responsible thing. You saved in your IRA or 401(k) to support your retirement, when you could have spent that money on another vacation, or an upscale car, or fancier clothes and jewelry. But now Washington is developing plans for your retirement savings.

BusinessWeek reports that the Treasury and Labor departments are asking for public comment on "the conversion of 401(k) savings and Individual Retirement Accounts into annuities or other steady payment streams."

In plain English, the idea is for the government to take your retirement savings in return for a promise to pay you some monthly benefit in your retirement years.



They will tell you that you are "investing" your money in U.S. Treasury bonds. But they will use your money immediately to pay for their unprecedented trillion-dollar budget deficits, leaving nothing to back up their political promises, just as they have raided the Social Security trust funds."


Looks to me like this is the next target for thieving politicos. Deal with your money accordingly. Mine is already outa there,and put into productive assets for our future.

Last edited by patience; 02-22-2010 at 11:44 AM. Reason: revise link
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  #2  
Old 02-22-2010, 07:44 PM
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recoilless_57mm Male recoilless_57mm is offline
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The government thugs can have it if they can find where I buried it. The way I figure it, I can only count on my family and some of those are in question. I will keep going as long as I can! Screw those carpet baggers in the government. OT
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Old 02-22-2010, 11:09 PM
patience patience is offline
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Same here. Below is my response to the issue on another forum.

Gotta stay at least one step ahead of the trends to survive! Thankfully, we have fast communications now, so we can position ourselves advantageously. If you read the link, Denninger and others point out that the motive is to finance the govt deficit CHEAPLY, at our expense. Stealing your money to "invest" it in US Treasuries will assure that the return (if you ever get it), will be far less than the rate of inflation = a net % loss for you.

The trick is to not do that, but instead, put that money where it will do you the most good. Get it out of their clutches! Investing is not about return ON investment now, but rather, return OF investment = safety. "Safe" deposit boxes are NOT safe. Any politico who wants can not only have a look in there whenever they want, they can simply take the contents if they choose to do so. Cash in your possession is safe until the inflation monster kicks in, but earns nothing. Overall, not a bad thing these days, with banks on the rocks, and the FDIC borrowing from member banks and .GOV to stay afloat.

What to do? We also want to at least preserve the spending power of our savings from inflation. Currently, the US dollar is going up relative to other currencies, but not necessarily up in terms of GOODS. So, buying some goods that you will need, and that store well looks like a good idea. Prices of housing and big ticket items have fallen, and housing continues to fall. Farmland prices I think are falling less than dwellings. If I had the cash and needed land for personal use, I would buy it soon. The price of land may go down more, but I think the purchasing power of the dollar will fall significantly, also.

We each get to make our own bets on these things. All our situations are different, and we all have our own ideas of the future. What looks like a sure bet to me is that letting Uncle Sugar run your finances is a bad idea. If we had not already withdrawn every cent of savings, I would do it now. Spending your savings has always been anathema to the thinking of the prudent person, but we have a new paradigm now. Spending prudently might just be the smart thing to do, along with taking a detour from the rat race, that is, "Going Galt". My daughter defined Going Galt this way--they don't play very nice, so I don't want to play with them.
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  #4  
Old 02-23-2010, 11:09 AM
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Patience: I agree with you about putting your cash into something that will hold value. I personally still like the idea of diversification to what ever extent a person can do so. It is a personal choice in the end. I still like to have a little in stocks that have historically have paid dividends without missing. They don't grow fast. Sometimes they drop to a level that drives you to bite your nails. But always remember you haven't lost until you sell. This is true about making money in the stock market. The next thing that I like is land. They don't make anymore of it. It is the one thing if you buy it right you can usually sell it right. Around here land is going for 6000.00 an acre & going up. Not a good buy unless you have a huge amount of cash laying around you need to shelter. If a person had purchased some gold or silver a couple years ago and still is holding them you are in better shape than with paper. Purchase staple items with excess cash. My late folks liked things that did not go bad on the shelf. These were items you could eat or use in everyday life. My mother loved the idea of toilet paper. Both had gone through the depression and swore they would not go there again!

I don't care for banks! If the SHTF like we are all thinking it will then the bank is the last place you want your savings. If you read your history of the great depression you will pickup on the time they called the bank holiday. This was when the banks closed their doors and would not let people remove their money. When they opened people were able to get a fraction of the money they had on deposit. In other words they gave you fewer dollars than you had in the bank. This is where if you have it at home you get to keep them all. The only way to stick it to a person is if they totally change the currency. That would not be an easy task as I see it.

For us little folks I would keep it simple. Stockpile items that you can use come rain or shine. Have a cash reserve to fall back on, not in the bank. I have gas appliances, but I can remove them and put wood or coal in their place. My home is a 1918 vintage home so I am gifted with all the sleeves in the chimney etc.. learn to can goods and do so. Grow a garden and learn to use it and love it. If your a hunter sharpen your skills and get out there more. If not a hunter raise some chikens, ducks etc.. If there is an ordance against farm animals ask if your kids or grandkids can raise phesents for a school project. Who cares if you release some eat some. Drive less, save more. Start working on your survival skills by doing without the frills. Take a close look at the good old days. They were everything but easy. The folks that learn to do with less and stay healthy will come out the other end ok.

Oh yes, get out and vote! I don't know how all you feel but, I for one would like to get back to a government that looks more like the Constitution put forth. Fewer pigs on the teet of the people. This is just my opinion. I don't care to start any arguements that are off post. OT
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Last edited by recoilless_57mm; 02-23-2010 at 11:15 AM. Reason: forgot something
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  #5  
Old 02-23-2010, 01:35 PM
patience patience is offline
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recoilless_57mm,

My thoughts exactly!

We pulled out all of our retirement monies, put a lot of that into buying the mortgage on our kids' 32 acres, put 10% of it into some junk silver coins (back when it was going for under $13), built a henhouse, added a room that functions as summer kitchen/sunporch/greenhouse, and had 3 large garden areas terraced in our steep backyard. We put about 412K into solar PV. Bought a gas stove and a 500 gallon LP tank for it, had it filled, and got materials to build a woodstove. We filled the pantry to excess, and stocked up on animal feed, salt for preserving meat, a generator, a gasoline powered welder, a blacksmith shop, water collection, and a hundred other things.

Wife and I only have an acre lot, but have put in a small repair shop business for farm, lawn, and garden stuff. Still have my logging tools from when we owned 45 acres, and bought the kids a set of team harness and enough equipment to work their acreage with horses. Their place is still developing, but they are living there, off-grid.

We have done more than anyone I know to get ready for this, and I am still scared spitless.

Last edited by patience; 02-23-2010 at 01:47 PM.
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  #6  
Old 12-19-2010, 07:11 PM
tadbitangelny Female tadbitangelny is offline
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My boyfriend and I decided to do this as well. We are cashing out our 401K and using the money to buy silver, put up a hybrid wind and solar setup, and the rest the BF will invest. The way we figure it is you (people with 401Ks etc) could loose all their money sans an economical collapse so we might as well use it for tangibles that are either going to make us money or provide us with our own resources.
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  #7  
Old 12-25-2010, 11:20 AM
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I don't think this will happen without an all out revolt against the gov't - esp if it is some mandatory proposal

Scary thing is that I still think some people would favor some reformed version of retirement savings even if it was gov't controlled

People have failed miserably at managing their 401ks on their own

Personally - no thanks, I have educated myself to the point where I can do well on my own. Amazing what reading books can do....
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Old 12-25-2010, 12:20 PM
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It can happen and it might happen...never say never!!!

We are a step ahead anyway...took ours out 2 years ago before it all took a plunge yes we paid extra for earlyout fees...but we...paid off everything and no mortgage, creditcards, carpayments...no debt period...it feels good each day knowing we dont owe anybody anything for the first time in our lives...and that is why we are moving to our farm ASAP....

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  #9  
Old 12-25-2010, 03:25 PM
grumble Male grumble is offline
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How would something like that work? I mean, they have to keep it legal, or at least with the appearance of legality.

There would have to be an implementation date. Would it be retroactive, say back to some date in the past (like Jan 1, June 1, or some such thing of the current year), or at a point in the future? Seems like it would have to be a future date because some people make regular withdrawals, and they can't convert account balances that are different than they are when the scheme is implemented.

Would it be a voluntary thing, like an annuity with a "guaranteed" (HA!) rate of return, and a person can opt in or out? This seems likely to me.

Will they treat all retirement accounts the same? 401s, Regular IRAs and Roth IRAs are treated differently now for tax purposes. If an employer makes a matching contribution to a retirement account, will that be treated differently? A Roth IRA in particular, since it is comprised of after tax contributions, can't be converted to an annuity the same way a Regular IRA would be.

I'm not saying that this can't or won't happen, only that maybe we should watch and see what the actual plans are before we panic ourselves out of our retirement accounts. This is especially important for those wanting to switch all their retirement assets into one thing, be it land, PMs, or even preps. What if you guess wrong, and you find that you bought silver at a high and the bubble pops? What if the PTB decide to confiscate gold, a la FDR?

I don't doubt for a new york minute that the Treasury and the Fed would like to do this sort of thing. HOW they do it and changing it from a sparkle in Geithner's eye to an actual conversion of assets can't be done in total secrecy and "sprung" on the populace without some warning signs. Put me in the "watch and wait" column.
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  #10  
Old 12-25-2010, 10:54 PM
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Tim Horton Male Tim Horton is offline
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What has it been ? Twenty or so years ago they started the 401K thing ?

Where I worked the human resource person (reasonably new to the shop) brought in some "expert" to sell a 401K program. Almost every quarter I would hear people say "we almost broke even this time" and stuff like that about there quarterly statements.

I didn't participate. Asked my accountant about it and he said "keep putting your money where your clout already is" I would get a sales pitch or sales brochure with every pay check. A real hard sell pitch. I put my money in a money market account. Didn't make much interest, but didn't cost anything to maintain. So my money market account paid for my kids college.

I knew from the start, there must be something in it (commission or whatever) for the HR person and salesman. I didn't trust them or the program they sold the other employees.

It doesn't surprise me that this program is trying to be raided.

Good luck
Wyo
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Old 12-26-2010, 01:26 PM
grumble Male grumble is offline
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Not real sure how long the IRA legislation has been around, but I opened my first IRA account somewhere around 1980.
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  #12  
Old 12-26-2010, 05:57 PM
Dennis G Male Dennis G is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patience View Post
recoilless_57mm,

My thoughts exactly!

We pulled out all of our retirement monies, put a lot of that into buying the mortgage on our kids' 32 acres, put 10% of it into some junk silver coins (back when it was going for under $13), built a henhouse, added a room that functions as summer kitchen/sunporch/greenhouse, and had 3 large garden areas terraced in our steep backyard. We put about 412K into solar PV. Bought a gas stove and a 500 gallon LP tank for it, had it filled, and got materials to build a woodstove. We filled the pantry to excess, and stocked up on animal feed, salt for preserving meat, a generator, a gasoline powered welder, a blacksmith shop, water collection, and a hundred other things.

Wife and I only have an acre lot, but have put in a small repair shop business for farm, lawn, and garden stuff. Still have my logging tools from when we owned 45 acres, and bought the kids a set of team harness and enough equipment to work their acreage with horses. Their place is still developing, but they are living there, off-grid.

We have done more than anyone I know to get ready for this, and I am still scared spitless.

Sounds like a nice set up, way better than most, even us on this forum. You spent 412,000 on a solar set up? Or is that a typo?

If it is not a typo, would you please describe your solar power set up?

Thanks

Dennis G
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