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Philosophy Any non-religious philosophical discussions.

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  #1  
Old 12-12-2012, 05:45 PM
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Default Perception and Indocrination

People behave and act based on their own perceptions of events and others. Inevitably, you have been guided through decisions and beliefs of others. Many of my personal morals and values are held in common through cultural and individual systems of logic. My judgment is based off of what I believe to be right. This is not only what has been taught to me through various outlets (media, school, parents, or friends) but also personal experience. Certain events have either persuaded or swayed our principals. Is it better to feel what is right or come to a logical conclusion?

Do I Donate to a charity to help them because it is right or because it is perceived as an admirable action? This is an example to illustrate ideas of our culture. We don’t know if this will actually help the person or the society in the long run. Will that person be better off or would it be better to allow them to fend for themselves?

Why do we censor ourselves or offer opinions? When someone says “Good Morning” there is a need to respond. It is ingrained. And perceived as rude if no response is offered.

To steer the direction of this thread….

Is it better to do what you believe is right based on feeling or thought? Is it more pious to work for the sake of the betterment of the whole? Or is it the principal of equal trade that should guide our actions and beliefs? Meaning I have something of value for you and you of me so we exchange.

Thoughts or Feelings about this?
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:57 PM
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I,ll go for the exchange option. You are right on how we run our lives, but the greatest gift my parents gave me was how to question and critically think for myself. That makes me somewhat odd in today's culture but it has served me well. To often people don't question what their taught until it's to late which might be the case now. Or we could learn from history.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:13 AM
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Is it better to do what you believe is right based on feeling or thought?
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Perception or logical thinking more important in decision making?
I believe it takes both feeling and thought -- and that both are intertwined with each other via thoughts -- that it essentially weaves a tapestry, with patterns in it. Each particular "weaving" is unique and influenced by many other things as well: social customs - like manners; personality, education (both direct and indirect, i.e. - experience), etc.

Acting on thought alone, without feeling -- leads to the inability to establish strong relationships with people. Acting on feeling alone -- usually leads to bad things happening either to oneself or others. It's a feral state. And the fight-flight-freeze response is the easiest example of that. Everyone knows the instinctive "it's a snake"... "no, it's just a stick" feeling, thoughts and instinctive (without thought) reaction.

Perception is one of those squirrelly terms. It's not a thing that's inert and can be studied under a microscope until it's so well understood - it can be easily replicated. It accepts no rules, and won't sit still and behave. It's a wiggly toddler squirming to get moving and explore everything in it's immediate environment. People "perceive" even when they're asleep or not totally conscious. A human being could be said, to be one big perception receiver and translater. Perception can be very emotional -- say, when you directly perceive malice and violence aimed in your direction (or it's opposite). Perception is also a collection of tinkertoy almost pre-"thought", thoughts. Multiple perceptions relate to each other [white, cold, melts = snow] and build what we experience as thoughts.

Often, people say "perception" when they mean something else. Like viewpoint, perspective, discernment, judgement, conclusion. Using the snow example -- it's the feelings attached to it, that help generate the thoughts and viewpoints and predispositions. Some people simply love snow; it's very pretty and they have emotional anticipation of "fun"... both in memory and expectation. Other people associate it with sliding in a car through a series of 360s on a turnpike overpass bridge... and the feeling they experience, is fear, distrust and dislike.

Personally, I think the perception part of your question is the most interesting. I've studied perception for awhile. One never really "knows all about it", either. It's kinda like studying astronomy... the number of stars you can see depends on the seasons and the ability of your telescope.

Just some of my thoughts - that may not even go together to say anything - on the subject.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:36 AM
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People behave and act based on their own perceptions of events and others. Inevitably, you have been guided through decisions and beliefs of others. Many of my personal morals and values are held in common through cultural and individual systems of logic. My judgment is based off of what I believe to be right. This is not only what has been taught to me through various outlets (media, school, parents, or friends) but also personal experience. Certain events have either persuaded or swayed our principals. Is it better to feel what is right or come to a logical conclusion?
If those are my only two options, I choose logical.
I try SO hard NOT to make decisions based upon emotions.
It has never bode me well.

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Do I Donate to a charity to help them because it is right or because it is perceived as an admirable action? This is an example to illustrate ideas of our culture. We don’t know if this will actually help the person or the society in the long run. Will that person be better off or would it be better to allow them to fend for themselves?
I donate because we should 'do unto others as we would have done to us". If something happened and my kids were hungry, or my feet were cold, I would want someone to have mercy on me. How can I expect mercy if I give none?

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Why do we censor ourselves or offer opinions? When someone says “Good Morning” there is a need to respond. It is ingrained. And perceived as rude if no response is offered.
Manners censor us.

Quote:
To steer the direction of this thread….
Quote:

Is it better to do what you believe is right based on feeling or thought?


If those are the only two options?
Thought / Facts.
Again, feelings can lead us astray

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Is it more pious to work for the sake of the betterment of the whole? Or is it the principal of equal trade that should guide our actions and beliefs? Meaning I have something of value for you and you of me so we exchange.
A life worth living is full of give and take.
More give, than take.


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Thoughts or Feelings about this?
Great topic
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:03 PM
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Laura... re: feelings.

Quite often it's feelings that motivate us to kindness, charity, and other noble acts. And I find too... that simple right/wrong... are almost "feelings" too. In a complex situation, I always "poll" my feelings to see if (and why) I might be drawn one way or another, rationally.

I suppose that's why it always seems a mix, to me.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by whitehairedidiot View Post
Laura... re: feelings.

Quite often it's feelings that motivate us to kindness, charity, and other noble acts. And I find too... that simple right/wrong... are almost "feelings" too. In a complex situation, I always "poll" my feelings to see if (and why) I might be drawn one way or another, rationally.

I suppose that's why it always seems a mix, to me.
True.
One cannot rule.
Logic only makes us cold and inhumane.
Feelings only makes us vulnerable to making foolish choices.
Balance is key!!
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:56 PM
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Ah, yes... my friend "balance"... LOL.
It's easier said than done sometimes. But trying to "look at" my own perceptions... and where they might not be accurate or complete... helps.
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:16 PM
macgeoghagen macgeoghagen is offline
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Is it better to do what you believe is right based on feeling or thought? Is it more pious to work for the sake of the betterment of the whole? Or is it the principal of equal trade that should guide our actions and beliefs? Meaning I have something of value for you and you of me so we exchange.

Thoughts or Feelings about this?

1. I try to use reason when making a decision of whether an action is right or wrong. I try to act within my core beliefs, which I have thought out and made into a personal code of morals. The central idea is "does this work for the long term betterment of myself and my neighbors?" These are updated as I gain greater understanding of the Bible and of natural rights theory. I have not left any room for feelings. Feelings are too changable, too dependent upon personal prejudices. I try to do what is right, regardless of whether I feel like it.
My final word on what is right is God, through Jesus. The text in red in the new testament is what is right. I have also adapted natural rights theory into my 7 rights theory, which are a pretty good suppliment to Jesus' commandments.

2. I am not pious at all, But I do go out of my way to make my community the type of place my neighbors and I want to live in. Equal trade is for trade. If everyone's sole interest is getting something out of the deal with minimal input, the community falls apart.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:58 PM
macgeoghagen macgeoghagen is offline
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I think I may have killed your thread. Perhaps this will resurrect it:

What of the people whose motives and actions are far from just, and may be considered immoral, but they have quoted some scripture or cited some law(or lack thereof) to bless their crimes? I have not heard a response from them. What of those who look to harm others and either wait for a situation or manufacture one in which they are "legally" justified in harming their neighbors?
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:48 AM
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When you say far from just, who's just do you equate with, A lot of people have thought that God was not just in the old testament until one studies why He did what He did or are we looking at Man's Just. All mired with emotion and a limited mind to know truth let alone just. Man being what he is will always try and justify anything they want to do either just or other wise.
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:12 PM
macgeoghagen macgeoghagen is offline
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Suppose I dislike my neighbor's dog. So I kill one of my chickens and leave it in my yard as bait.When the dog comes along and finds the chicken dinner I shoot the dog. If anyone asks questions I say I found the dog eating one of my chickens.

Suppose A family of unchurched people move in nearby. Some people who live in my area would use that as an excuse to shun them. They would say that it is OK to treat nonChristians that way and quote some obscure scripture out of context to justify it.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:03 PM
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Some on this thread are alluding to that there is difference between social interactions and financial interections. But is there?

I go to a farm stand and buy tomatoes. I give the farmer money (a expression of value) for his produce. It is an equal trade from which we are both benefiting. I don't ask this farmer to give me the tomatoes because I am hungry. After all I need food.

Thinking of this paradigm we can look at Mac's comment of how communities fit into this.

I believe we all choose friends and spouses based on equal trade. Look at your best friend. Why is he/she considered your best friend? It is because they would be there for you. If you broke down they would pick you up. And you would reciprocate. You can count on them and they on you. It sounds impersonal but it is a trade.

We have all had that person that take you for granted. They may talk of need but in reality they are on borrowed credit. You help them and they never pay back that moral debt. Your emotional account will be overdrawn eventual and you will foreclose on that relationship.
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:58 PM
macgeoghagen macgeoghagen is offline
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Perhaps it is not that the social and financial interactions are the same thing, but that they occur at the same time when buying or selling from a neighbor. I can have a social transaction without financial transaction if I give or receive, and I can have a financial transaction without a social transaction when I buy or sell online.
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by macgeoghagen View Post
Perhaps it is not that the social and financial interactions are the same thing, but that they occur at the same time when buying or selling from a neighbor. I can have a social transaction without financial transaction if I give or receive, and I can have a financial transaction without a social transaction when I buy or sell online.

Mac,

The idea I was propagating was value for value. I don't believe you would be very neighborly if the jones' were always borrowing your tools for instance and then when you ask something of them they refuse. It is a give take. The best friends I ever had never worried about dollars and cents because they knew it would come full circle. That if I give a kindness it wouldn't be a habitual mooch that that friendship would be reciprocated. This is the philosophy that has built me strong bonds and trust.
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