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  #21  
Old 03-22-2008, 04:52 PM
MooseToo MooseToo is offline
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Default Re: You can save money on fuel like I am.

i guess sometimes folks will search out obscure laws and regs to follow - wouldn't want to get out from under the thumb of govmint -
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  #22  
Old 03-23-2008, 11:36 PM
turboRC turboRC is offline
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Default Re: You can save money on fuel like I am.

DM thanks for your input. You might be the smartest person I've had the pleasure of meeting on the net!

And yes I'm still burning oil in my 93 6.5 turbo truck! Our coldest day was 18 degrees and it started right up with a 50/50 mix.
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  #23  
Old 03-23-2008, 11:39 PM
turboRC turboRC is offline
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Default Re: You can save money on fuel like I am.

msta999 powerstroke will burn oil fine if it's a 1997 or older. DM can tell why this is because I can't. 97 and newer your run a 70/30 mix. It has something to do with emission controls?
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  #24  
Old 01-04-2010, 04:30 PM
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Default Great Thread

Great thread. As far as the legal issue is concerned, where in the constitution does it say one may not burn an oil mix? There are two types of people in the world, those who follow the human law and those who bow to any person in a supposed role of authority. Keep the great info coming.
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  #25  
Old 01-07-2010, 03:45 AM
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This is very illegal but what the goverment doesn't know won't hurt them. Now if you had a 2k still out back that would be hard to talk your way out of. But if you had a 55 gallon drum of it who would be the wiser. I would advise not running "I make biodiesel" bumper stickers on your truck.
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  #26  
Old 01-11-2010, 01:18 AM
DM DM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis View Post
This is very illegal but what the goverment doesn't know won't hurt them. Now if you had a 2k still out back that would be hard to talk your way out of. But if you had a 55 gallon drum of it who would be the wiser. I would advise not running "I make biodiesel" bumper stickers on your truck.

Once again, "if" it's so illegal, why did Cummins offer it on their OTH trucks as an option??? Seems to me if it was illegal the gov would have stopped it the day it was offered!

DM
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  #27  
Old 01-11-2010, 02:14 AM
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Originally Posted by DM View Post
Once again, "if" it's so illegal, why did Cummins offer it on their OTH trucks as an option??? Seems to me if it was illegal the gov would have stopped it the day it was offered!

DM

Do not about/why/how Cummins how/is getting away with it. I know some people have gotten in trouble for running homemade biodiesel because they did not pay the highway tax. Personally I would do it and not say a word about it.
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  #28  
Old 01-11-2010, 03:06 PM
Anon001 Anon001 is offline
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I think some of it depends on the type of "biodiesel".

One example is that you can make your own ethanol but, you are fequired by federal law to get a "license" because ethanol is nothing more than moonshine.

Different laws apply to different types of bio-fuels. (I think?) lol

Paul
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  #29  
Old 01-11-2010, 05:52 PM
cinok Male cinok is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DM View Post
Once again, "if" it's so illegal, why did Cummins offer it on their OTH trucks as an option??? Seems to me if it was illegal the gov would have stopped it the day it was offered!

DM
It is not illegal to run untaxed fuel offroad. If you have ever bought deisel fuel in an Ag area you would see fuel that is sold for off road use only it is ussally dyed red. Fuel that is for highway use is not dyed. Big time fine for useing off road fuel for on highway use. Their is nothing wrong with using homemeade fuel in a vechicle as long as you pay the tax on the fuel that you use.
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  #30  
Old 01-11-2010, 05:52 PM
chrisser Male chrisser is offline
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I did a little research.

Surprisingly, the EPA is OK with burning WMO. Here's one reference.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/de...l_190425_7.pdf

In a rare (and likely fleeting) moment of practicality, even though they would prefer recycling, they seem to recognize that burning is less harmful than the oil getting into the fresh water stream.



Also found that Cummins didn't recommended more than 5% WMO in the diesel fuel for their engines. Most fleets still doing this are heavily filtering the WMO with either a 1 micron or centrifuge filter. Otherwise, long term there are issues with filter/injector plugging and valvetrain coking. Seems the current practice is to collect the oil at oil changes, then process it at a central location and feed it in measured amounts into the fuel.

Can't imagine running unfiltered 50% is going too last long, but I suppose if it's occassional use, it might be years before it catches up to you.
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  #31  
Old 01-11-2010, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinok View Post
It is not illegal to run untaxed fuel offroad. If you have ever bought deisel fuel in an Ag area you would see fuel that is sold for off road use only it is ussally dyed red. Fuel that is for highway use is not dyed. Big time fine for useing off road fuel for on highway use. Their is nothing wrong with using homemeade fuel in a vechicle as long as you pay the tax on the fuel that you use.
With all the diesel tractors i have around here, i do buy "red" fuel, but "OTH" stands for "over the hiway", so Cummins intended the used oil to be used "on road", not off.

I use up to 50/50 and i don't give a hoot who knows, and yes it's filtered. I've been doing this for many years in tractors AND my diesel pu's. It hurts nothing on my old non puterized diesels.

I still say, if it was illegal, Cumming wouldn't have offered it as an option on the diesels going in OTH trucks.

DM
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  #32  
Old 01-12-2010, 01:22 AM
Oblio13 Oblio13 is offline
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There's a reason you take that old oil OUT of your engine. Don't put it back in, especially at the top end.

Your engine's not engineered for it, you can't filter the acids and toxins out, magnets won't remove most metals.

You'll save a few bucks on fuel, but it will shorten the life of your injectors and injector pump, especially if you have a turbo-diesel electric pump. It's penny-wise and dollar-foolish. Injector pumps have VERY tight tolerances.

Most diesel fuels don't need additives. If you feel the need for, say, added lubricity, then use a product specifically designed for it.

Last but not least are the environmental issues. Look at a used-oil analysis to see all the nasty stuff in there. You wouldn't pour that on the ground or in a creek, so why would you want it in the air?

Bottom line: Don't pour anything in your fuel tank that wasn't designed for the purpose.
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  #33  
Old 01-12-2010, 02:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Oblio13 View Post
There's a reason you take that old oil OUT of your engine. Don't put it back in, especially at the top end.

Your engine's not engineered for it, you can't filter the acids and toxins out, magnets won't remove most metals.

You'll save a few bucks on fuel, but it will shorten the life of your injectors and injector pump, especially if you have a turbo-diesel electric pump. It's penny-wise and dollar-foolish. Injector pumps have VERY tight tolerances.

Most diesel fuels don't need additives. If you feel the need for, say, added lubricity, then use a product specifically designed for it.

Last but not least are the environmental issues. Look at a used-oil analysis to see all the nasty stuff in there. You wouldn't pour that on the ground or in a creek, so why would you want it in the air?

Bottom line: Don't pour anything in your fuel tank that wasn't designed for the purpose.

And could you please speak to the reason why Cummins, the mfg of the engine, not only says it's alright, but even offered it as an option to do so??

I figure they know more about this than anyone here does...

DM
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  #34  
Old 01-12-2010, 11:58 AM
Oblio13 Oblio13 is offline
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Originally Posted by DM View Post
And could you please speak to the reason why Cummins, the mfg of the engine, not only says it's alright, but even offered it as an option to do so??

I figure they know more about this than anyone here does...

DM
You're referring to the "Centinal" system. It was offered only on older heavy-duty engines. It used a mix of 5% or less, not the 30%-50% mixes being advocated here.

The option was discontinued after '06. You can interpret that any way you like.

Those older, heavy-duty engines are antiques. They injected fuel at something like 3,000-4,000 psi. Some engines are injecting in the neighborhood of 20,000 psi.

Think of your injectors as tiny, super-high-pressure, super-high-heat "sand blasters", one in each cylinder. Any particles, no matter how small, are slowly sand-blasting your piston tops and cylinders, hogging out your injectors, and grinding away in your injector pump and other parts. Contaminants are carbonized when the cylinder fires. A mix of abrasives and abraded material then starts working on your top piston rings, cylinder walls, valves and etc. This is a slow process. It happens even with the cleanest diesel. It happens a lot faster when you add dirt to your fuel.

Put some clean diesel in a jar, beside a jar of filtered waste oil. Let them sit for a few days, see what you think.

ATF has also been mentioned in this thread. ATF is a hydraulic fluid, not a fuel. Why not use brake fluid or differential oil? Lots of things will burn in a compression engine. The question is how WELL they will burn. Your tank isn't like "Mr. Fusion" from "Back To The Future". I don't understand the obsession people seem to have with dumping stuff in their fuel tanks.

If you want to save money on fuel, slow down a bit.

If you want to save money on repairs, don't put dirt and contaminants in your fuel tank.

If you want to burn used oil, do it in a garage heater or something designed for the purpose, that isn't injecting it at thousands of psi.

Cars are probably the most expensive things any of us will ever own. Unlike homes and property, they are consumable items. We use them up and throw them away. If you take care of a modern diesel car, there's no reason it can't last for at least 300,000 miles. "Taking care" of it includes not putting dirt in the fuel tank.

Last edited by Oblio13; 01-12-2010 at 12:17 PM.
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  #35  
Old 01-12-2010, 12:52 PM
DM DM is offline
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First of all, many trucking companys are still doing it with their fleets today. But, if you read my post, you would know that i stated "more than once" that i have older diesels.

As for the "mix" killing them, i have 3 pickups. One has 200,000 miles on it, the others are 100,000 and 95,000 and all are fine. I have several diesel tractors and a dozer that all are fine. I also know a guy with an mid 60's Chevy pu that he but a 4 cyl Cummins in, and he runs nearly all oil in the summer. He's been doing it for close to 10 years now.

I may along with many others be killing our diesels, but i for one, won't live long enough to see it.

DM
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  #36  
Old 01-12-2010, 01:29 PM
Oblio13 Oblio13 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DM View Post
... if you read my post, you would know that i stated "more than once" that i have older diesels...
The original post isn't limited to older diesels, and specifically states "Newer than 1996 use 70% diesel".

Quote:
Originally Posted by DM View Post
... I may along with many others be killing our diesels, but i for one, won't live long enough to see it.
When you sell a used diesel, do you tell the prospective buyers what you've been putting in the fuel tank?
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  #37  
Old 01-12-2010, 11:19 PM
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Sell one??? When i get done with them no one is worried about that, as they are rusted out junk! I bought my first diesel pu in 1982, it's still here, and it's still a decent pu.

DM
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  #38  
Old 07-04-2011, 09:44 PM
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Great info. Gives me something to do with all of the used oil i have stored. Of course I only have a diesel tractor.
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  #39  
Old 07-08-2013, 04:36 PM
LincTex Male LincTex is offline
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A man in Texas named Robert Bodell (RBodell on most forums) has a way to get the acid out of the oil.

http://www.microcogen.info/index.php...34760#msg34760

http://listerengine.com/smf/index.ph...b&topic=2905.0
Quote, RBodell: "I run my wmo through a dieselcraft centrifuge filter. I do run it a lot longer than necessary, about three hours for around 7 gallons. I process about 7 gallons at a time. I am still running my original Goldenrod 10 micron fuel filter on the engine. I check the PH by taking a little oil and adding some distilled water and shaking it up and let it settle, I then check it with litmus paper. I bring down the PH by adding some Sodium Hydroxide and water and letting it recirculate."
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  #40  
Old 07-12-2013, 01:09 PM
MichaelK Male MichaelK is offline
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Touching on the legal issue, what I believe I've read is that biodiesel, WVO, WMO, would be illegal if burned exclusively in your engine while on a public road. However, as long as you are burning SOME street-legal fuel, then what you add is just considered a diesel additive.

So, if you are adding 19 gallons of oil to 1 gallon of street diesel, you're still legal.

Touching on the contamination issue, I have to say I'm worried about what's going to happen to my injectors and pump with long-term burning of used oil. Commercial biodiesel has been scrupulously washed by people that know what they are doing to remove contaminating lye and glycerol. That I will and have burnt in my engine.

I get frustrated with guys that claim there's no problem burning such and such stuff in their diesel, untill they admit they carry extra filters in the back seat for when they are broken-down on the side of the road because their filters clogged up.
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