BHM's Homesteading & Self-Reliance Forum

Posting requires Registration and the use of Cookies-enabled browser


Go Back   BHM Forum > Homesteading > Education/Homeschool

Education/Homeschool Homeschooling, adult education, teaching self-reliance, and anything else education-related.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-21-2014, 03:40 PM
goldengate goldengate is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: in a mountain valley
Posts: 150
Default Terrorist Pilgrims

Have any of you with children in the gov't. school system seen the material that says that the pilgrims were America's first terrorists? How does it justify calling them that? I guess you could say that I am looking for my laugh-of-the-day.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-23-2014, 02:35 PM
doc doc is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
Posts: 1,522
Default

It's one thing to call the Pilgrims terrorists and another to teach critical thinking by comparing and contrasting the Pilgrims with modern day terrorists or, a better comparison, with modern illegal immigrants.

Unfortunately, the sheeple who become teachers in our schools often turn a good teaching technique into an opportunity for propaganda.

If American Indians had had a more conservative immigration policy, maybe they'd still be in charge here
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-24-2014, 02:24 PM
Terri Terri is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,037
Default

They were not terrorists, they were invaders!

Of course, that WAS the custom of the day: to take land where you could. The Native tribes did, the English did, the French did, the.......

You get the idea. That was where the state of civilization was, and that was what everybody knew and understood.

Our ancestors were not saints, they were people.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-24-2014, 03:21 PM
Nickathome Nickathome is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pa
Posts: 392
Default

Those with the power are going to make the rules, and in the case of the first settlers here, claim the land as well. That's just the way it is. Its been like that in every civilization on the planet. To call them terrorists is doing a disservice to all those who risked their lives settling in a harsh land far from home friends and relatives. To me the Pilgrims were no more terrorists than the indians, who were simply fighting for their survival.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-24-2014, 10:42 PM
doc doc is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
Posts: 1,522
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terri View Post
They were not terrorists, they were invaders!

Of course, that WAS the custom of the day: to take land where you could. The Native tribes did, the English did, the French did, the.......

You get the idea. That was where the state of civilization was, and that was what everybody knew and understood.

Our ancestors were not saints, they were people.
Good post. We should not judge those who came before us by our current standards. What is considered "civilized" has varied thru the ages. For example, one of the first books on etiquette from medieval times states that it is bad manners to spit on the table when eating at a banquet. "One should turn and spit on the floor behind."

I still try to live by that rule.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-11-2014, 10:51 PM
Sugarfoot Sugarfoot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: East Texas
Gender: Female
Posts: 88
Default

I know this post is a couple of weeks old but I just saw it & can't help myself. I think calling Pilgrims terrorist is absurd. First of all there was no organized government here when the first Europeans got here. The natives where happily fighting amongst themselves just like the natives on all the other continents around the globe. Europe being one of them. My people where among those that sought refuge here & their alternative was being imprisoned or burned at the stake for wanting to read God's word for themselves. When they came they did everything legally on their end to get here the risk probably outweighed the possibility there would be no welcome wagon. Countries like Frances, Spain & England didn't mind at all allowing them to do the recon for them before the big push. It is no different from when the Vikings invaded England then the Romans, Anglo-Saxons & Normans & that is just one county-it happens. that is why it is so important to secure the border if you don't want to be invaded. The public school system is not what it should be or what it used to be so nothing surprises me anymore. I can't send my daughter to school with prescription antibiotics to take at lunch on her own without their interference but they can take her to get an abortion without my knowledge or consent. So glad I don't have to deal with them anymore.

Sorry got on a rant.
Thanksgiving is my favorite holiday.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-12-2014, 02:00 PM
MissouriFree's Avatar
MissouriFree MissouriFree is online now
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: central missouri woods
Posts: 18,417
Default

Really seems to be it has merit.

Try reading the actual story instead of the fairy tales taught in schools. Imperialism, hegonomy, invading, terror.... You can called what you want the pilgrams were not nice people.

http://links.org.au/node/753
__________________
I find out of long experience that I admire all nations and hate all governments- Steinbeck

Last edited by MissouriFree; 12-12-2014 at 02:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-20-2014, 09:37 PM
lraude's Avatar
lraude Female lraude is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: settled in N Florida
Posts: 80
Default Terrorist Pilgrims

Maybe the Pilgrims, or Spanish who arrived much earlier, or whoever was first were not very nice either. Well actually they were not! Look at what the Mayans and Incas did for religion and to their foes. At the time of the Pilgrims most people were not as nice, as a whole, as today. Of course they had a much harsher life than we do today. Would I like to try living in the forementioned time-period? Sure! But I also know I would probably only last a day or two before killing myself, in an accident, or being killed for some stupidity.

So the question to me is "were the Pilgrims terrorists?" I don't have that answer.

But if they were terrorists would I rank them with, oh lets say ISIS or the Taliban or even the Mayans or Incas, probably not.

And I say this as a female who in the Pilgrim's time would have been stoned or burned for being much too independent and vocal of my opinions.
__________________
The Laws of Gross Tonnage Apply
As my Daddy said "You have to know BOTH sides to figure out what is REAL"

I'm Living My Dream! Three Horses, two Dogs and a Bit of Land!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-28-2014, 05:46 PM
Setanta Male Setanta is offline
Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 857
Default

Terrorists, no, but they were grave robbers
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-13-2015, 03:20 AM
SisterMouse Female SisterMouse is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 10
Default

I guess that depends on whose eyes you're looking at it through.

Colonists' eyes, in the 1770s?? Either terrorists or reasonable human beings trying to do what was necessary, depending whether you were a Loyalist or not.

British eyes, at the same time?? Yeah. Probably so. I certainly can't imagine them hesitating to use words like "guerrilla insurgency."

American eyes, in the 21st century?? You'd have to be awfully liberal. Yes, our forebears did some things that I consider wrong. Things I would not like to have done to me. Things that people have been perfectly happy to do to each other for untold millennia.

I'm not pleased by, or proud of, what was done to the Native American. The systematic, deliberate, intentional destruction of a culture is an ugly thing to behold; what's left in the ashes ain't too pretty either. Maybe we should think about that, you know, for future reference. They are, however, one of the few cultures so treated to survive and retain some vestige of cultural identity on which they might attempt to rebuild. Native Americans, Hebrews, Angles, Saxons, Celts... and that's about all I can think of off the top of my head.

So, you know, I won't try to argue that that was RIGHT. But I will stand here and argue that cultural flux is a way of life and a fact of existence. Even if we did not do WELL, we did do BETTER.

I DO think that the idea of looking at our "hallowed forebears" as "terrorists" is a good exercise in perspective-taking. The thing that worries me is that, rather than being used as an exercise in perspective-taking, it's going to be used as I saw it used in college-- either to breed contempt for the last ~250 years of American culture, or to build sympathy for modern terrorists.

Might be a failure of perspective taking on my part, but I do see our forebears as being somewhat less domineering and destructive than, say, ISIS or Boko Haram.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-14-2015, 02:01 PM
SisterMouse Female SisterMouse is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 10
Default

Another exercise in perspective-taking would be the labor wars in the first half of the 20th century here.

If you hear the story from the union side, by and large they were reasonable people who did not have a particular problem with capitalism; all they wanted was to earn a wage that would allow them to participate in the marketplace in a workplace that wasn't likely to kill them.

If you hear the story from the corporate side, by and large they were a terroristic Communist insurgency that wanted nothing less than the total destruction of the capitalist economy and the American culture and way of life.

I grew up in West Virginia in a mining family. I heard the story from both sides and have read/heard a fair bit of the histories (agitprop novels, actual histories, news articles, personal stories). Looks to me like both renditions of "the truth" had (perhaps continue to have) some merit.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -2. The time now is 10:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 1996 to Present. Backwoods Home Magazine, Inc.