BHM's Homesteading & Self-Reliance Forum

Posting requires Registration and the use of Cookies-enabled browser


Go Back   BHM Forum > Self-Reliance & Preparedness > Firearms/Weapons

Firearms/Weapons Firearms or other weapons issues that do not have a dedicated board.
PLEASE NOTE: These boards are for discussion only. Offers to buy, sell, or trade anything are prohibited.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-23-2015, 12:15 AM
Tim Horton's Avatar
Tim Horton Male Tim Horton is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Deep in the BC Bush
Posts: 5,818
Default Vigilante and CC Holder Scuffle

http://news.yahoo.com/man-assaulted-...230643501.html
===
This story is of a man who tackled another man who had a concealed carry license when he entered a store...

Incidents of vigilante acts are on the increase ??
Are the antis starting to act out, and just not sound off ??
Is there becoming a problem with having to watch out for more than traditional "bad guys" ??

Facts, details, thoughts ??
__________________
Always fresh.
Keep your stick on the ice. Red Green
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-23-2015, 10:47 AM
Soilman Male Soilman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 89
Default

What an idiot! Foster was LUCKY he didn't get (justifiably) shot! I would NEVER confront, or alert the authorities to a law abiding citizen with a holstered/secured weapon. Now, had the dude walked in with the firearm in his hand...it's red alert time.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-23-2015, 11:25 AM
MichaelK Male MichaelK is offline
Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Sierra foothills
Posts: 551
Default

This opens up a whole can of social issues that greatly complicate the ramifications of this incident.

I can easily see the assilant's charges being dropped because "he was acting to save lives". With our recent history of mass shootings, it's easy to how people are getting overly sensitized to the presence of guns.

Unfortunately, you might not determine that someone isn't a "law abiding citizen" till after the gun is drawn and shots are fired.

Then of course there's the issue of a black man carrying a gun. Is very black man carrying a gun in this man's eye a criminal?

I think the permit holder showed wisdom in trying to announce that he was a legal permit holder, and that he didn't further complicate this incident by actually firing his gun.

This lends more weight to the idea that concealed weapons need to stay concealed at all times, and better OPSEC might have prevented this confrontation. Hopefully, this is not going to result in clamor for additional gun restrictions.
__________________
I'm an O negative, Aries, ISTJ, Rat.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-23-2015, 12:36 PM
Nickathome Nickathome is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pa
Posts: 390
Default

I don't agree with vigilante-ism. The white guy should have the book thrown at him. He caused undue panic by his actions, which luckily resulted in nobody getting shot. However this could have gone the other way, and the ccw permit holder could have assumed his life was being threatened and opened fire. Innocent bystanders could have been shot. Thankfully this man used his head and didn't draw his weapon.

The white guy is an idiot for assuming because he saw a man with a gun that right away it was going to turn into a criminal act. The fact that the victim is black only adds to the idea that this so called vigilante more than likely holds some prejudice which affected his action to move on this guy. I'd like to ask him, "did you ever strop to think that maybe this guy had the legal right to carry that gun, or maybe he could have been an undercover cop?" The man's decision to take the law into his own hands was wrong, dead wrong, its just fortunate that no one was hurt. Now I hope the victim sues the piss out this idiot, if for no other reason, than to teach the moron a lesson. He's got a perfect case, and I'm sure race could easily be brought into the equation as well.

The article mentioned something about the white guy "should assume" the black man was a legitimate ccw holder "before asking to see his permit". The part about somebody "asking to see a permit" is something I wholeheartedly disagree with. I as a citizen am under no obligation to divulge to any other common citizen that I have a CCW even if asked. Its not their business period. I live in PA and we are also a CCW state. Nowhere does it say that I have to tell any Joe Schmoe that I have a CCW permit if Schmoe asks me. Joe Schmoe is nobody, and I don't need to justify anything to him. If Joe wants to find out he can call the police, and I'll gladly explain things to them....

In the case of the Florida man, IMO he too was under no obligation to announce that he held a CCW. Now of course it swung to his advantage to do so, however had he not and was held by the store's security as well as the so called vigilante, until the police got there and sorted things out, I think it would have really caused a stir that not only did some vigilante harass and hold someone against his will, that maybe the store also would have gotten into some hot water. Could have made for a nice payday for the CCW holder if he were to sue Walmart and settle for an undisclosed sum. Not saying I'd have done that but its something he could've considered.

Last edited by Nickathome; 01-23-2015 at 12:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-23-2015, 05:10 PM
papa bear papa bear is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 384
Default

Let me introduce you folks to a word, the word is Eleutherophobe, these people are afraid of freedom (i say they hate it).

this guy was not afraid of a gun. he was afraid of the freedom to carry it.

he knew that this guy was no threat. the gun was holstered. since when do bad guys holster their weapon?? Yes he did have it hid like a bad guy but you can't carry in FL any other way.

also he was a bigot. also how did he know the good guy with the gun wasn't a LEO

this is part of the thing called swatting, that is plaguing the country
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-23-2015, 11:35 PM
offgridbob's Avatar
offgridbob Male offgridbob is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,964
Default

I believe the vigilante should have his butt sued off and spend some jail time. Most of them are idiots, Loosing a lot of money should put a stop to this
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-24-2015, 05:29 PM
Tim Horton's Avatar
Tim Horton Male Tim Horton is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Deep in the BC Bush
Posts: 5,818
Default

After studying this a little, I also feel this person put more people in danger by his actions than the cc holder did....

The cc holder is the one with training and responsibility for his actions...
The assailant was making assumptions that endangered the cc holder, himself, and others.. He does deserve as many charges as he deserves...

My 2 cents...
__________________
Always fresh.
Keep your stick on the ice. Red Green
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-24-2015, 07:58 PM
Nickathome Nickathome is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pa
Posts: 390
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyobuckaroo View Post
After studying this a little, I also feel this person put more people in danger by his actions than the cc holder did....

The cc holder is the one with training and responsibility for his actions...
The assailant was making assumptions that endangered the cc holder, himself, and others.. He does deserve as many charges as he deserves...

My 2 cents...
Agree. Had the man simply have been allowed to enter the store, nothing would have happened and no one would have been the wiser.

Now the only thing I can see that the victim could've or maybe should've done was to have the gun concealed before he got out of his vehicle. That in itself might have thwarted this whole situation....Not blaming the victim just observing something that wasn't brought up.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-24-2015, 11:14 PM
Tim Horton's Avatar
Tim Horton Male Tim Horton is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Deep in the BC Bush
Posts: 5,818
Default

Wow.....
That is some word... Here is a definition I found.... Somewhat more complete than fear of freedom...
---
People living in fear with the notion of freedom is called having Eleutherophobia. This fear could have had its roots even in the bible when during the time of Moses, the people grumbled when they experienced difficulty in the dessert and wished for slavery back in the hands of Egyptians rather than being free. This could be due to the fact that these people might have only known the life of being a slave and did not know how to act when they had to do things on their own. These people are more likely to be followers than leaders, and could not do anything without anybody telling them what to do.
These are individuals who think that having freedom means having more responsibilities and they are scared of it.
Symptoms of Eleutherophobia include suspicion of others, a sense of servitude, nausea at the thought of freedom, social anxiety, tremors, difficulty of breathing and weeping.
To overcome this fear usually requires information. A person should understand what freedom means and how it can provide personal and corporate liberty. A therapist can help manage the fear by explaining the prospects of freedom, and usually, your response has a lot to do on how you view these prospects. Changing the logic response and the fear response may follow.
---
Symptoms of Eleutherophobia include suspicion of others, a sense of servitude, nausea at the thought of freedom, social anxiety, tremors, difficulty of breathing and weeping. ---- I'm going to have to suspect this is a part of/form of paranoid mental health conditions....

---

Now.... I deliberately didn't mention the fact that the races of the people involved, because it didn't matter to me... And it shouldn't matter to anyone..... It is just coincidental they are the races they are...
However... It would seem to a person with a profound mental issue like mentioned... The fact this was a black man would be a significant trigger to this condition....

I'm not a psychologist..... But I did pay for ones education...

Along with mental health help... This person still deserves the charges appropriate for his actions...

My 2 cents....
__________________
Always fresh.
Keep your stick on the ice. Red Green
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-28-2015, 03:31 AM
OzarksLady Female OzarksLady is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,046
Default

You just have to make sure no one ever sees your gun unless you've had to pull it. It used to be if someone had a "reasonable" feeling you had a gun that was enough to get you in trouble. The didn't even have to see it. Maybe the outline or if for some reason you bumped into them they thought the felt one. And not the ol' "Is that gun in your pocket or are you glad to see me" either.

A couple of years ago I was on my way to Springfield Mo and stopped at a little cafe for lunch just before the TX OK border. A lady came in and had a purse over her shoulder. I knew when I saw it it was a gun purse because I had seen one just like it at a gun show not long ago. But the thing I noticed was her gun was printing.

I walked over to her and very quitley said "You might want to buy a new purse" and winked. She did a and then I said "Your little friend is outlined on the leather of your purse" and laughed. It still took her a minute to decide if she was going to admit I really knew what she had in her purse. She did have the side that you are suppose to wear next to your body facing out. I suggested she might want to get a square of sturdy leather and put between her gun and the outside of the gun pocket.
__________________
A recipe is like a stop sign in Italy. It's only a suggestion.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-28-2015, 11:43 AM
MissouriFree's Avatar
MissouriFree MissouriFree is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: central missouri woods
Posts: 17,123
Default

Amazing that any would place even the tiniest degree of blame on the OC guy for merely doing what he has every right to do. That line of thought is what give credence to the gun grabbing left .
__________________
work like you don't need the money- love like you never been hurt and dance like no one is watching !!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -2. The time now is 05:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 1996 to Present. Backwoods Home Magazine, Inc.