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Old 05-18-2015, 10:56 PM
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Default Remington Outdoors for Sale

It is being reported that Cerberus Capitol Management has offered Remington Outdoors for sale since they posted a 68.2 Million dollar loss.

Remington Outdoors is the parent company to Remington, Marlin, H & R, Parker, Bushmaster, Dakota, DPMS, Para USA, Barnes Bullets & Nesika.

Colt is also struggling again it seems.

It looks like more dark days are in store for the gun manufacturing community.
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Old 05-20-2015, 04:21 AM
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It seems lately, even with the rush of firearms sales, that the companies that are doing well are doing really well.... And the ones doing not as well are really struggling...

I can't help but wonder if Remington and all when they were acquired by this parent corp were just used as a "cash cow"??? Kind of like the time Harley Davidson was bought by AMF, had the cash sucked out of it, didn't put out a good product, and was sold off again... Fortunately HD has been able to make a successful come back...

I wonder if there is anyone, or any group that could do that for Remington and all ??? Could this kind of resurrection be pulled off before it is too late to be made successful again ??? I would hate to see them decompose into virtually nothing.... There is too much there that is/was too good to see discarded...

My 2 cents...
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Old 05-20-2015, 08:17 PM
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No conspiracy on thier part. In the last 15 months the bottom has fallen out of the whole gun market- all manufacturers . 14 years ago S&W sold for $114 m- just recently it was sold for $45m . Remmington sales are down nearly 30%. I think a family on Midwest tried to buy remmington last winter but was turned down by remmington who decided to borrow more more hoping sales would increase.

Kinda doubt there are any buyers out there at this time .
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Last edited by MissouriFree; 05-20-2015 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 05-20-2015, 09:26 PM
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If what I have seen and heard is anything near the truth, Remington did not do Marlin any favors and then they pulled H & R out of their niche (single barrel rifle & shotgun) market place and moved or converted them into just another economy pump shotgun manufacturer. Added to those changes the recall on the Remington bold guns, did not help their profits, I am sure.

Deliberate Wyobuckaroo? Who knows? Maybe just bad decisions at the corporate level. A lot of times it seems management wants to lead the buyers market in one direction or another, rather than responding to the consumers desires & requests.

Cerberus Capitol Management appeared to be trying to gobble-up and monopolize the gun manufacturers and their market, or at least the majority of the major players, so it could have been an anti-gun stunt to further cripple the gun manufacturers in this country. I doubt that was the real case however, because no matter how much the anti-gun crowd hates guns and gun owners, they don't care to lose any of their own money in any of their investments.
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Old 05-21-2015, 03:17 PM
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no matter how much the anti-gun crowd hates guns and gun owners, they don't care to lose any of their own money in any of their investments.
--
Definitely.... It seems the "antis" are just as good at recruiting someone else money to do there agenda as they are at doing there intended agenda.... Like said not willing to risk a dime of there own money...
===
"Deliberate"..... No, not deliberate as buying and dismantling with the intent to hamper gun manufacturing or sales... Yes, in that the company happened to meet the criteria of a business to raid for the value that can be extracted from that business... The business just happened to be a gun manufacturer...
SeewhatImean...

My 2 cents....
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Old 05-21-2015, 05:10 PM
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I have never seen anything good come out of a situation where a Capital Management company acquires a Company - in the short term.

The cycle that I see is that a company starts to decline in sales and roi due to a mature or shrinking market, management starts drastically cutting costs.

Management cuts costs, which usually hurts the company worse, but improves profitability in the short term. This is done to make the books look better in an attempt to sell the company for the maximum price, then they get wonderful bonuses and packages while everyone else feels the hurt.

Capital Management picks up the company, trims it even more, often splitting the company up. Separate business divisions get picked up and revamped, sometimes bringing the quality and focus back in line. So long term, it may be better for certain business units.

Other entities are shut down and assets liquidated.

Just like anything any other form of commerce - you buy stuff in really large portions, split it up and sell each smaller portion at a slightly higher price, and you make money.

So, with that in mind, I wouldn't be surprised to see that happen with Remington.



p.s. I am by no means an expert in this stuff, but I've just seen it happen to a company that I was working for and several suppliers. So just observations based on that.
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Old 05-21-2015, 07:15 PM
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Kachad, it would be nice to see something good come out of this situation. We have already lost far to many gun manufacturers.

Astra, Bauer, High Standard, H & R Pistols, Ithaca, Iver Johnson, Llama, New England Firearms, Star & Sterling are all gone if memory serves me correct. Charter Arms, Colt & Winchester have all gone under, been revived and appear to still be struggling, so we need something good to result from this business consequence.
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Old 05-22-2015, 03:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jjr View Post
Kachad, it would be nice to see something good come out of this situation. We have already lost far to many gun manufacturers.

Astra, Bauer, High Standard, H & R Pistols, Ithaca, Iver Johnson, Llama, New England Firearms, Star & Sterling are all gone if memory serves me correct. Charter Arms, Colt & Winchester have all gone under, been revived and appear to still be struggling, so we need something good to result from this business consequence.
crossing fingers, fer sure
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Old 05-26-2015, 08:57 PM
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Just to let you know, New England is being sold under their own name by H&R, I "work" at Walmart and see their product and Company name on the product almost everyday. And just yesterday saw some new to us New England.
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Old 11-28-2015, 02:13 PM
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Remington's woes continue.

Their third quarter financial statement released 27 September 2015, by the Remington Outdoor Company showed their Firearm sales down 19.8%, Ammunition sales down 21.2%, and overall their sales are down 23.5% from a year ago.
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Old 11-28-2015, 04:43 PM
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If any company wants to stay in business they need to provide a quality product at a fair price and it needs to be something people need or want.
Remington made quality firearms years ago and people bought them.
My 700 BLD still works as well as it ever did and it's almost 50 years old.
It was made before their trigger problems.
I don't need another large caliber hunting rifle so I haven't bought another one.
I have bought several other types of firearms but none were Remington.
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Old 11-29-2015, 02:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by backlash View Post
If any company wants to stay in business they need to provide a quality product at a fair price and it needs to be something people need or want.
A most astute and true statement! All companies would do well to use it as their guide in production and quality control/assurance both.

I have never had any problems with Remington per se myself, but with the change from a black powder season to a primitive arms season, which allowed single shot rifles using metallic cartridges or a black powder rifle, I purchased an H & R Rifle about a decade past. When I mailed the registration/warranty card for the rifle, I also placed an order for some things offered to complement the rifle on paperwork accompanying the rifle. Not wanting to wait for a check to clear for the order to be shipped, I enclosed a USPS Money order.

Things happened at work which created an unusually exceptional extra heavy work load and three to four month passed before I realized I have never received my merchandise. To make a long story as short as possible, I sent a certified letter (return receipt requested) with a copy of my original letter, the order, and money order receipt. Thirty days following receipt from the certified letter and nothing, so I repeated the entire process with certified letter number two to the president of H & R with copies of everything enclosed with certified letter number one, including a copy of certified letter number one and copy of its return receipt.

Two weeks following receiving the return receipt from certified letter number two, I was becoming ticked off, so I sent the president of Remington H & R's parent company copies of everything previously sent the president of H & R, including the return receipt from that letter.

I never received the first reply, nor my merchandise either. I went to the Postal Service to see what I was required to do to trace the money order. I was told to complete said form and mail to the prescribed address and they would send me a copy of the cashed money order, but if could take up to six weeks. In about two weeks I received a refund check for the original money order and no other explanation.

A refund was the last thing I really wanted at that point in time, but I presumed the original money order had never been cashed and being nearly six months later, the postal service just sent me a refund.

I really was not impressed with this business conduct, and will probably never ever consider purchasing a product from the entire umbrella of businesses in the "Remington Family" because of this extraordinary amount of business stupidity shown by all parties involved in the handling of my order and follow up service. Making the original mistake was not the problem, but ignoring & stonewalling a customer about an order with evidence & proof of the order and payment in hand is totally unacceptable from any company, big or small.

With this kind of service, I seriously doubt the products registration/warranty card was properly filled and/or retained either. Even if it was I would never trust sending them my property for any warranty work, because with their past history of service to me I would doubt ever seeing my property again.

When all is said and done, the Remington Family lost really "BIG TIME", over such an insignificant matter. I have not gone out of my way to repeat the previous story to persuade any potential customers to purchase another companies product(s), but for my own business, I do not believe any of the Remington Families could ever persuade to try any of their products ever!
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Old 12-07-2015, 01:37 AM
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I noticed that Iver Johnson and Ithaca are being sold again. At least somebody has the rights to the names.

Ithaca is making shotguns, not sure in which country.

I believe Charter Arms is on its fourth or fifth iteration by now. The current company seems to be pretty stable from the way it sounds.

They used to make serviceable revolvers, but the companies in between the current and the original tainted the name.
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Old 12-07-2015, 03:02 AM
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It seems like many in the firearms industries and to some extent in the related business fields too, have fallen on hard times since the mid-seventies.

A few have been resurrected to fail again, with a few others repeating the cycle more than once, or being sold, resold & sold again and again. Winchester, NEF & HR come to mind as some of the later ones being repeatedly sold. Colt, Coonan, Inc., Charter Arms & Ithaca belong to the former being resurrected to fail again.

Some like NEF and H & R were niche manufacturers producing single shot products not everyone wanted, but others were more main stream production with products which had a greater & broader appeal but still were not selling enough products to the fickle public to maintain a financially sound business.

Then with their military sales to rely on, Colt became so arrogant towards the civilian market with their "take it or leave it price tag" marketing strategy, they discovered many potential customers had "left it" when they lost their lucrative military contracts and needed those civilian sales to stay viable in the marketplace.

I hated to see any of the firearms manufacturers and others in the support arena to the firearms industry go under, even including Colt, who had no one to blame except themselves because of their arrogance towards the civilian customers.

Iver Johnson had good quality products with basic no frills models, but we have also lost: AMT, Astra, Baer, Davis, High Standard, Llama, Raven Arms, Star, & Sterling, are ones I can quickly think of, in addition to the ones already mentioned.

But as a plus, we do have a few new brands in the manufacturing game of firearms which seem to be doing quite well, so all is not doom & gloom here either. Sometimes those businesses which do not, or are not willing to adjust and conform to new market strategies & trends are doomed by their lack of foresight alone.
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