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  #41  
Old 07-03-2015, 08:26 PM
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I believe there is a possibility of variance between what I would answer now, and what I will answer when the time actually comes?
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  #42  
Old 07-04-2015, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by wildturnip View Post
Coaltrain, I understand why you would feel the way you do. I'm sorry no one helped you. That is so sad. If we had been your neighbors, we certainly would have done everything we could to help you. We don't have a lot of money but we could have helped you with your work.

We have been blessed with very good neighbors which no doubt affects my feelings.
Thank you. I know the folks here on the forum are the type to help out.

And I wasn't looking for financial help of course - just someone to help cut the grass (with my tractor), help stack firewood in the wood shed (that was cut/split/delivered). We have always been on the giving end all our lives helping folks out in a similar situation without any questions or expectations. We are strong believers in Karma and " what goes around comes around" but in this case it didn't work out that way.

We got everything done eventually. Poor Mrs. Coaltrain who I think is more strong headed than I am did a lot of the work herself while in a great amount of pain. But one of my life's mottos is "it is what it is" and we just push forward the best we can.

So when any people come looking for a handout in a SHTF scenerio they will not get a very nice greeting. We've managed to equip and supply ourselves to handle most any situation.

I actually feel terrible having this attitude but that's the way it is
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  #43  
Old 07-04-2015, 06:46 PM
Setanta Male Setanta is offline
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Coaltrain, I hear ya on not getting help from anyone. people are always asking me to help around here, I am the go to person people ask when they need stuff done. unfortunatly being the go to set of extra hand means i already have the only ones i can call upon.

having to walk 30 miles, overnight, to attend a mandatory apointment in the morning on a monday, because no one was willing to get up an hour earlier before work to give me a ride, is the best example i know of not having anyone to call upon.
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  #44  
Old 07-05-2015, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by oldmaidnc View Post
I guess the bottom line is: 1) the predicted extent & severity of the emergency and 2) your knowledge of your neighbors -their integrity and their skills. We won't truly know until faced with the issue. At this point - no one is right & no one is wrong.
Very insightful synopsis.
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  #45  
Old 07-07-2015, 02:26 AM
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I believe there is a possibility of variance between what I would answer now, and what I will answer when the time actually comes?
You have that right, Ken.

The point that I go back to is - develop your relationships now, if you break a sweat with community members before SHTF, chances are that if it does - you have formed a bond, have a certain level of trust established.

None of us really know what may change in those relationships if SHTF, how we will change, and how others will - but I know one thing - you help a neighbor put up a fence today ... chances are that person will help you with planting a field tomorrow.
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  #46  
Old 07-07-2015, 10:28 AM
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None of us really know what may change in those relationships if SHTF, how we will change, and how others will - but I know one thing - you help a neighbor put up a fence today ... chances are that person will help you with planting a field tomorrow.
In my experience over many years I have found that will not be the case. Even without any SHTF scenario I got tired of being the one helping over and over again then to not receive even a question of "do you need any help with anything" when I desperately needed it.
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  #47  
Old 07-10-2015, 01:02 AM
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In my experience over many years I have found that will not be the case. Even without any SHTF scenario I got tired of being the one helping over and over again then to not receive even a question of "do you need any help with anything" when I desperately needed it.
I'm very sorry to hear that is the case with the community around you. There have been a few people that I have helped, that don't give back - those are very short lived relationships. But, the majority of people that I have helped, are there to help me when the time comes.

Don't know the difference, but I won't give up on those in the community that help me back, after I've helped them out.
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  #48  
Old 09-23-2015, 04:26 PM
Boomer_Sooner Male Boomer_Sooner is offline
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Default Poor Planning

Piss poor planning on their part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part
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  #49  
Old 09-24-2015, 02:14 AM
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I know my neighbors and we would take care of each other. wildturnip, I agree with what you said. I also believe that there is not a molecule in the universe that God doesn't control, but that's another discussion for another time and another forum.
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  #50  
Old 09-24-2015, 06:10 AM
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Here's a dark, philosophical thought to add to the conversation:

As I've mentioned before, I'm not rock solid on my views about the OP's scenario.

I often hear the term "die off" in conjunction with SHTF or TEOTWAWKI. If, for example, our power grid collapses for the long term we will for sure see a die off.

If we no longer have the ability to irrigate with pumps then there will be a significant reduction in crop production - die off.

If we can't climate control urban areas - die off.

If we're 9 meals away from anarchy - die off.

Let's say that our country, if things fall apart, can only sustain 100 million folks instead of 300 million. That means that about 2 out of 3 people are going to die off.

If 2/3 of our population are destined to die then it seems to me that we are assuredly going to know people who will die. Now, if we follow that thought, it leads us to the dark place that says that human life might not be as precious at that horrible time in the future.

We won't perform heroic feats to save a life. We won't be overly concerned about someone who doesn't make it. We might even start re-drawing that line where we say it's either them or me.

Unpleasant thoughts to be sure. But thoughts that we would be forced to face if the world as we know it becomes topsy turvy.

** Special note to Bible believers who think that saving people's lives is our christian duty: For reference please note how many time God killed off thousands of people just to make a point. Examples abound.
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  #51  
Old 10-01-2015, 09:45 PM
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Good points, Randall .. and well taken.

Guess that means we should be taking a look at surrounding us with the
1\3 that have a chance of cutting it.
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  #52  
Old 10-02-2015, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by randallhilton View Post

Let's say that our country, if things fall apart, can only sustain 100 million folks instead of 300 million. That means that about 2 out of 3 people are going to die off.
Excellent post, but your estimate here is way too conservative. Given that only one in 100 Americans is a real farmer (another 2 in 100 claim to be for tax purposes, but don't produce much food for market) and that industrial production and delivery of food is highly dependent on an intact petroleum & electricity delivery system, in a real EOTWAWKI situation, precious few will survive for long.

The closest real life example we have is WWII Europe, when many, many starved, even tho over half the population was ordinarily involved in agriculture prior to the war.
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  #53  
Old 10-07-2015, 10:50 AM
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I have lately given much thought to this problem and seek your opinion/answer.
Assume that the worst has happened and you find yourself in the position of being prepared to deal with it. You have an adequate amount of grub, guns and water to provide for your family when, one month into the situation, your neighbor shows up a your door with family in tow and wants you to share.
What you do? You have prepared and he has not. If you do share, you reduce the time your preparations will last your family and expose them to deprivation.
Are you your brother's keeper in this situation? I think not and base my decision on biblical precedent. When Noah built the Ark, he was a prepper. When the floods came, those who had not prepared wanted to be included in Noah's crew. Noah, apparently with God's blessing, shut the door in their faces and sailed off to preserve life on the planet. As shall I. Comments?
The only results you can expect would be for him to take me down with him. NO WAY.
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  #54  
Old 02-13-2016, 04:01 PM
newbiehal Male newbiehal is offline
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I've read through a page of posts on this subject and have the following view. While I wouldn't turn away a hungry child, I would certainly require some sort of contribution from the parent. I am reminded of Aesop's fable about the ants and the Grasshopper. In this case the grasshopper played the fiddle (his contribution) while the ants danced and they all survived the winter. Almost everyone has something to contribute. If they have nothing of material value to barter , they must be taught to contribute in other ways.

Does this make me a softie?
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  #55  
Old 02-13-2016, 06:46 PM
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There are moral absolutes best summerized in the 10 commandments and I belief charity is an absolute moral imperative . Period. that to me means expanding circles - starting with my family and working out.
That means helping others in need. To much " us " and " them" in the world already. Like said everyone has something to contribute " if" one bothers to look ! Trouble is to many don't want to look.
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  #56  
Old 02-14-2016, 09:04 AM
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Does this make me a softie?
No. It makes you a theorist instead of a realist.

When your food & water supply dwindles down to the point that your ant family will die if you share your stuff with the grasshopper, then his fiddle music won't have any value to you anymore.

The Law of Supply and Demand determines value-- even in The Jungle.
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  #57  
Old 02-15-2016, 02:33 PM
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No. It makes you a theorist instead of a realist.

When your food & water supply dwindles down to the point that your ant family will die if you share your stuff with the grasshopper, then his fiddle music won't have any value to you anymore.

The Law of Supply and Demand determines value-- even in The Jungle.
i say it depends on his resources and abilities. i know how productive i am, and i know how much i could produce with non powered means (hand tools only). i feel i could support up to 6 other people reliably (that assumes heating 3 houses with wood and feeding 7 people from gardening/foraging, in this case i include my orchards and vinyards as foraging since i take no effort to make them look the part, it looks like a forests but i manage my woodlots to increase yields of food and other resources).

if i was to extend support to someone in a shtf situation i would do so very carefully. i would combine resources to some of my immediate neighbors (1/2 mile away to the close neighbors). knowing they would return the favor (as they do now, i barter and trade with neighbors before buying elsewhere).

supporting any random person would be out of the question. if i had an otherwise useless neighbor who was willing to earn it i could potentially tripple what i can produce with a second set of hands, but they would be earning their share of it, and they would learn how to do things at the same time.

covering someone for their music talents would be a luxury only the rich could do. more likely i would turn them away if that was their only skill. If i supported a neighbor i would have to have a reason to do so and expect a return on my investment, musical talent would just be a bonus.
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