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  #1  
Old 05-15-2016, 06:10 PM
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Tim Horton Male Tim Horton is offline
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Default Manure Soup....

OK.. You have all heard a thousand times or more about my black thumb... I actually planted and killed horse radish.. Don't ask..

So I stopped at a dairy farm near my old farm place and got a half, 5 gallon bucket of ooie-gooie un contaminated dairy cow poo... Took it home, added water and stirred into a thick soup.. Not exactly the "tea" type product my dad used to use on his garden, but OK I guess..

To use I add a quart of water to the bucket, stir, scoop out a quart of soup into a 5 G bucket of water and mix..

I have used it on rhubarb, Nan King cherry bushes, Lingonberries and various other flowering things I don't know what are.. They were here when I bought the place..

Doesn't seem to have killed anything... Yet..
Your experience may be different..
Good luck..
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Old 05-15-2016, 07:37 PM
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I think it is usually called "manure tea", but it always seems to work to supply nutrients. Some folks add an old aquarium pump to aerate the concoction...then I think it becomes a primitive form of "compost tea", which is even better than the raw manure tea--unless the initial manure you had was already composted.
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Old 05-16-2016, 02:33 AM
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I use rotted manure be it horse cow chicken...

If I knew as a child I would have bagged all that poop and now be a millionare. They are getting about $5 for a few shovels full.......

It gets tilled/plowed into the garden or top dressed around plants.

Not sure how much better "tea' would be? Maybe leach some nutrients out for quick release, or quick loss?

The other thing I do with rotted do-do, is make potting soil. I take very rich soil and mix in 1/3 manure, add some dried blood, bone meal and greensand. Have pepper and tomatoes in blossom with that mix in 6-7 weeks from seed.
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Old 05-16-2016, 01:25 PM
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This hasn't worked quite like I suspected.. I suspected it would settle out in the bucket and have a layer of "tea" water on top of the bucket to dip out of.. It hasn't.. I has stayed pretty much soup.. But when it get less concentrated, now is half dung, half water, it may be different.. Maybe a 20-30 to one water dung ratio would be different...

Like said.. Nothing has immediately fell over dead, so it must not be that bad, or not working at all..Time will tell..

No one has mentioned smell... It really doesn't.. It is obvious what it is. And when stirred it gives a smell, but it is not over powering.. I think it has to do with there is no urine in this mix.. I suspect the acid in urine make a different breakdown of this material..

Good luck..
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Old 05-16-2016, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Wyobuckaroo View Post
This hasn't worked quite like I suspected.. I suspected it would settle out in the bucket and have a layer of "tea" water on top of the bucket to dip out of.. It hasn't.. I has stayed pretty much soup.. But when it get less concentrated, now is half dung, half water, it may be different.. Maybe a 20-30 to one water dung ratio would be different...

Like said.. Nothing has immediately fell over dead, so it must not be that bad, or not working at all..Time will tell..

No one has mentioned smell... It really doesn't.. It is obvious what it is. And when stirred it gives a smell, but it is not over powering.. I think it has to do with there is no urine in this mix.. I suspect the acid in urine make a different breakdown of this material..

Good luck..
Leave it in the sun a week then have a wiff
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Old 05-16-2016, 10:52 PM
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I use rotted manure be it horse cow chicken...

If I knew as a child I would have bagged all that poop and now be a millionare. They are getting about $5 for a few shovels full.......

It gets tilled/plowed into the garden or top dressed around plants.

Not sure how much better "tea' would be? Maybe leach some nutrients out for quick release, or quick loss?

The other thing I do with rotted do-do, is make potting soil. I take very rich soil and mix in 1/3 manure, add some dried blood, bone meal and greensand. Have pepper and tomatoes in blossom with that mix in 6-7 weeks from seed.
All good points.

I have a compost pile consisting mostly of horse apples/urine-soaked pine shavings and the kitchen scraps that are run thru hens first (they make a bee-line to the pile each AM when let loose, gobbling up the scraps.)

I never turn the pile to aerate it, but after a few months, those bottom layers are indistinguishable from the best store-bought humus. I use it for seed starts each year. It works great.

Partially rotted horse stall refuse is not that great as a Nitrogen source (tests "adequate" by those cheapo test kits, scaled semi-quantitatively into five grades). But horse apples partially decomposed have excellent texture, adding fiber when mixed with soil to improve air & moisture content of soil.

Making soup or tea from the manure probably allows it to soak in faster to the roots, but then you loose that benefit of the texturing.
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Old 05-17-2016, 01:39 AM
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Yes.. I suspect the more liquid content, the quicker it makes some stuff available for use by a plant..

In the particular matter soup (humus) is still there, obviously not as concentrated as a compost product would provide..

I suspect the urine content of most product is where a lot of the smell comes from, and requires composting to break down to a plant friendly product..

Isn't horse manure one of the products that can be used almost directly on plants while it is still steaming ?? It seems one animal product is that directly usable.. But I'm not sure which now..

I'm not a chemist..
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Old 05-17-2016, 02:47 AM
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The only problem I know with horse manure is weed/grass seeds. A horse's digestive system isn't particularly efficient compared to the ruminants, so a lot of stuff passes through. It is best composted just to eliminate the seeds left in the manure. I have used sheep, goat and rabbit manure fairly fresh with no notable effects, but, as Doc mentioned above ( I think) fresh manure of any type can cause a temporary nitrogen deficiency due to bacterial action tying the nitrogen to carbon, making it temporarily unavailable. Composting all manure is best, but some fresh manure can be used to remedy certain situations.
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Old 05-18-2016, 12:20 AM
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Horse manure piled and stored for just a couple weeks can be mixed in with the dirt. When used fresh, it may burn the plants -- in the chemical sense. Composted, it gets quite hot, burning (literally) the pine bedding to ashes and killing most weed seeds.

The pungent smell of urine is the ammonia being lost to the atmosphere: vertebrates take nitrogen products to be excreted and turn them into urea in the liver. Urea is essentially two ammonias jammed onto a CO2 and an H2O is released.

Mammals then excrete the urea in the urine. There's very little N in the manure itself. Birds, however, have a common path (the cloaca)for both urine & colon excrement to exit the body. That's why chicken poop is so good as a fertilizer: it contains the urea, ie- N.

You use manure as a fertilizer not so much to increase the N in the soil as to merely maintain N levels. If you're low on N, you need to use inorganic fertilizers for a rapid improvement. It's not really true that animals "fertilize" their own pastures-- they merely return nutrients they took up from the pasture but didn't use. There's still a net loss of nutrients from the soil.
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Old 05-24-2016, 04:26 AM
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Horse manure piled and stored for just a couple weeks can be mixed in with the dirt. When used fresh, it may burn the plants -- in the chemical sense. Composted, it gets quite hot, burning (literally) the pine bedding to ashes and killing most weed seeds.

The pungent smell of urine is the ammonia being lost to the atmosphere: vertebrates take nitrogen products to be excreted and turn them into urea in the liver. Urea is essentially two ammonias jammed onto a CO2 and an H2O is released.

Mammals then excrete the urea in the urine. There's very little N in the manure itself. Birds, however, have a common path (the cloaca)for both urine & colon excrement to exit the body. That's why chicken poop is so good as a fertilizer: it contains the urea, ie- N.

You use manure as a fertilizer not so much to increase the N in the soil as to merely maintain N levels. If you're low on N, you need to use inorganic fertilizers for a rapid improvement. It's not really true that animals "fertilize" their own pastures-- they merely return nutrients they took up from the pasture but didn't use. There's still a net loss of nutrients from the soil.
Problem with nitrogen is the the unrotted fiber gets metabolized by bacteria who suck up the nitrogen, when the rotting is done with the nitrogen gets released back into the soil. same things happens when you add uncomposted things like leaves to a garden, initially the soil organisms tie up the nitrogen until things rot.

Now if you want real manure tea/ Check this one out:

http://www.55krc.com/onair/brian-tho...tors-14675206/
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Old 05-24-2016, 09:22 AM
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Plants can't use the N "straight." Bacteria must nitrify it first: turn it into nitrate to be absorbed by plants. The bacteria don't delay the process; they are an essential part of the process.
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Old 05-24-2016, 06:47 PM
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Plants can't use the N "straight." Bacteria must nitrify it first: turn it into nitrate to be absorbed by plants. The bacteria don't delay the process; they are an essential part of the process.

I would be referring to immobilization of of inorganic nitrogen (ammonium, nitrates) as bacteria break down soils, or manures, high in organics that are low in nitrogen themselves ( e.g. sawdust, bedding, hay, corn stalks, straw). The bacteria need more nitrogen than present in the materials they are digesting so they consume what else is available to make amino acids/proteins/nucleic acid bases. When the bacteria are done with the organics low in nitrogen, the cycle gets reversed and the organic nitrogen tied up in bacteria gets converted back to inorganic ammonium/nitrate.

This is why some manures high in bedding materials, such as horse with sawdust, are slow to release their nitrogen in plant usable form.

One good thing about immobilization is it can trap the nitrogen before it is lost to leaching (nitrates) or evaporation (ammonia), then it is slowly released when the bacteria are finished doing their thing on the cellulose type organics low in nitrogen.
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Old 05-25-2016, 10:10 PM
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WOW..... You guys have shared more chemical info and big words than this old chip maker ever heard/read before...

Quite interesting.. But deep (git it, git it) and complicated to follow..

The "soup" is a couple or little more weeks old now.. Used down a little, so I suspect it has had time to go through some of the stages you all have described..

Raining now this afternoon, so by the weekend when it is to be nice again, I will get out and look into using some more of this material.. Will report what condition it is in compared to when first set up...

Good luck..
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Old 05-28-2016, 02:39 PM
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Have been gardening and growing fruits berries all my life. Still do, it's my favorite "work".

After school I taught chemistry and biochemistry at Universities. Know a bit about nitrogen cycles, plant and animal metabolites. Had a Professor who studied with Prof. Krebs, of the the Krebs TCA cycle.

P.S. if your chicken poop is off gassing ammonia and losing nitrogen, mix it with some straw/hay/compost and bury it. Bacteria will use the nitrogen to break down the cellulose.

Overall process is exothermic. You can use that heat to grow plants up north in the cold. Dig a deep 4 ft pit, add pig/chicken poop with straw/hay/bedding, cover with good dirt. Make a mini greenhouse above on a sunny south slope. Can grow frost hardy veggies well into winter, bottom of pit will be rich soil. They did this 150 years ago, why not now?

Last edited by Mad_Professor; 05-28-2016 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 05-28-2016, 11:28 PM
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Overall process is exothermic. You can use that heat to grow plants up north in the cold. ...
Also a good way to dispose of a body...just sayin' in case the need should ever arise and you don't happen to be keeping hogs at the time.
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Old 05-28-2016, 11:39 PM
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Also a good way to dispose of a body...just sayin' in case the need should ever arise and you don't happen to be keeping hogs at the time.
I knew an old farmer, close friend, and good human. Farmer who knew the ways farms worked long before regulations........

I won't say all of what his pigs ate. But mostly stuff groceries were throwing away and leftovers at the farm. But if a chicken ran into the pen.........or an animal died......

Concerning bodies, bones would be slow to digest in a compost. BUT, pigs would chew them up.... I dabbled in forensic science too.
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Old 05-29-2016, 01:13 AM
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Boy, this thread has become macabre!
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Old 05-30-2016, 02:20 PM
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Boy, this thread has become macabre!

Sorry Don. What you guys do with salmon racks, moose bear caribou parts you don't use for trapping/dogs?
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Old 05-30-2016, 05:09 PM
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Sorry Don. What you guys do with salmon racks, moose bear caribou parts you don't use for trapping/dogs?

Yeah, when we had sled dogs, we had no wasted organic material. I just thought it was strange that Wyo's post on manure tea/soup ended up being instructions on body disposal.
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