BHM's Homesteading & Self-Reliance Forum

Posting requires Registration and the use of Cookies-enabled browser


Go Back   BHM Forum > Self-Reliance & Preparedness > Financial

Financial Anything money-related that does not have a dedicated board.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-13-2017, 02:03 PM
SKB Female SKB is offline
Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 785
Default Online panhandling

Every day someone goes public with their need for financial help. This morning it was a blogger who needs donations to pay adoption expenses for her 3rd child. There is a 30 day payment deadline. I don't know anything about the costs involved with adopting, but I felt resentful that she and her husband made a very personal decision and now with this deadline looming, they want donations from strangers.

If I donate to anyone, it would be local.

What do you do?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-13-2017, 04:10 PM
backlash's Avatar
backlash Male backlash is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Dry side of Washington
Posts: 1,926
Default

I guess they think it's somehow different than begging on the street corner,they're wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-13-2017, 06:18 PM
SKB Female SKB is offline
Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 785
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by backlash View Post
I guess they think it's somehow different than begging on the street corner,they're wrong.
It's pretty nervy, to ask someone you don't know to help finance a personal decision. Our grandparents would be appalled.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-13-2017, 06:45 PM
doc doc is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: central WI--finally!
Posts: 1,473
Default

First off, how is it possible that an adoption agency is even considering them if they can't afford the up-front fees? How are they to pay for continued care?

I trust no one with donations. Even the Red Cross mis-manages most money and I have personal knowledge of a friend who started what is now a major local charity in memory of her son lost to cancer. She now lives in a luxury condo on the Gold Coast in Chicago, paying herself handsomely for her "administrative expertise."

I'm not rich because I gave away so much of my services free or at reduced rates to the working poor throughout my career. I don't feel guilty at all now about ignoring beggars.

Those of us old enough to remember comic books when they only cost a dime must remember the perennial add in the back: Send me $1 and I'll tell you how to make one million dollars!-- I always wanted to take out a similar add. Then when they sent me the buck, I'd send 'em back a post card that said, "What you do is, take out an add in the back of the comic book...."
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-13-2017, 07:31 PM
SKB Female SKB is offline
Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 785
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doc View Post
First off, how is it possible that an adoption agency is even considering them if they can't afford the up-front fees? How are they to pay for continued care?
I know very little about the adoption process. The blogger says there are different types of adoptions and that when you're a foster parent, the adoption is free. That's how they came to be parents the first time. Don't know about the second child, but with the 3rd, they decided on a private agency. While waiting they've been setting aside money but they still owe a lot, hence the plea for help. The children are ages 4,3 and newborn.

I fully support local bake sales and lemonade stands. If I can, I'll drop a dollar in the jar. Online begging makes me uncomfortable, especially when they offer me payment options.

I wonder about their local church, family members and friends. Where are they in this? I can think of other ways to generate cash besides begging.

Maybe that's the appeal, they can spin a story that you can't verify. Tug at the heartstrings hard enough and wallets open.

I read some online stories from a few years ago where parents were openly begging for Christmas gifts for their children. One man even provided a list of needed clothing and sizes. He stated that his children deserved gifts.

What happened to making your kids a gift? That's what parents used to do when they were short on cash. They got creative. Flour, water, cream of tartar, salt, oil and food coloring makes play dough. Fun stuff like that costs very little. You can make tempera paint as well.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-14-2017, 10:08 AM
doc doc is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: central WI--finally!
Posts: 1,473
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SKB View Post

Tug at the heartstrings hard enough and wallets open.

.
Bingo. It's a scam.

Many of the rabble get involved in "foster parenting" with the sole intention of making money off the govt subsidies for childcare.

Real adoption agencies are quite particular about who they include and financial security is a major consideration.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-14-2017, 12:34 PM
SKB Female SKB is offline
Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 785
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doc View Post
Bingo. It's a scam. Many of the rabble get involved in "foster parenting" with the sole intention of making money off the govt subsidies for childcare.
Real adoption agencies are quite particular about who they include and financial security is a major consideration.
You're right. Many years ago we had a neighbor who fostered teenagers. Norma had a nice income from fostering but the kids were treated like hired hands. They hated her.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-14-2017, 04:01 PM
Setanta Male Setanta is offline
Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 678
Default

I have seen a lot of online panhandling, and I have had no shortage of dumbasses trying to talk me into panhandling or signing up for welfare and government handouts (they feel "sorry" for me because I live off grid, have no running water or cable).

for the most part they are scams, some people are just dumbasses who want to live outside their means and just don't understand how finances work (I use the dumbass phrase for the pan handleers who are not scammers).

as per the adoption fee case I would think the adoption agency should consider the childs well being, adoption fees are often a prerequiset check to be sure the want to be parents can afford to care for a child. yes adoption to poor parents is probably better than Victorian orphanages where the most brazen out of line punks say things like "please sir can I have some more" when given their daily gruel. but a lot of people have kids and want more, not for welfare per say but because they just want a bigger family and figure "it will all work out in the end" without considering anything other than a personal want. personally I would assume its the personal want behind this case and not a scam, although considering that they are not able to prove financial ability to care for a child themselves I would not donate money.

I tend to do direct donations myself, when I know where the money is going. the prevelance of crowdfunding and pandhandling online is disgusting and a symptom of easy scamming and group thinking of the hipster and hippy types in the cities who are becoming more socialist without even knowing what the word socialist means
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-14-2017, 05:08 PM
SKB Female SKB is offline
Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 785
Default

I won't unsubscribe to that blog just yet because I want to hear how the adoption fundraising goes. I left a comment yesterday but the blogger deleted it. I figured she would, but she had to read it first, so maybe she'll think about what I said.

As an adult it's never occurred to me to ask people to give me money for any reason. It's just not an option. I'll sell something, do without, save or like this last Christmas, get paid for addressing my drunk neighbor's Christmas cards. Talk about easy money! She had addressed some herself. Truly awful. She realized she needed help, so I was hired. I need more jobs like that!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-15-2017, 12:38 AM
Jjr's Avatar
Jjr Male Jjr is offline
Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NWLA
Posts: 836
Default

"Go Fund Me" or whatever is becoming the national past-time it seems. Some probably are real, but the majority very likely are not. We give through direct knowledge of the situation, or our local church.

I know we do not always have or know the whole story, but there have been a few time we have helped others, I questioned if we didn't need the money given more than the recipient it was going to. We may not have always eaten what we preferred, but we have never gone hungry, not yet at any rate.

Back many years ago, I stopped at a little corner convenience -grocery - liquor store. The were fast and had delicious ham sandwiches among items on the sandwich menu. I had picked up a sandwich and drink and on the way out an elderly man wanted money for a meal. I asked if he was hungry, and OH, Yes, was he ever hungry came the reply. I told him, I would treat him to lunch, but I would not give him any money, so go on in and tell them what sandwich you want and get your drink & I will pay for it. He looked at the door, but never moved to go inside. Then all of a sudden, he needed bus fare. I felt like he wanted some beer or liquor and told him I offered to buy his lunch, but that was the extent of my charity and got in my vehicle and drove off. And did not feel bad in the least.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-15-2017, 11:13 AM
SKB Female SKB is offline
Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 785
Default

I'm starting to tune out all the pleas for help, especially when I read that some well to do person has donated or pledged a million dollars to the charity, yet they're still sending out requests for donations.

A few years ago we had a big weather disaster here. One of the neighboring towns got hit hard, and a local tv station (a network affiliate) held a telethon. The total amount donated was just $25,000. Over a million potential viewers and that's all they got. It was probably much less because a promise to donate is not the same as actually sending the check or providing your credit card number.

I find myself questioning how many poor and needy people there really are. I'll never forget the news story about a panhandler who was followed by a news crew to his new vehicle. When they interviewed him, he revealed how much money he made per day, tax free. He was very sun tanned, and scraggly looking, but doing much better than one would imagine.

It's not my responsibility to make sure someone's children have school supplies, money for trips, Christmas gifts or anything else. I think technology has made the business of begging much easier.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-15-2017, 03:22 PM
backlash's Avatar
backlash Male backlash is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Dry side of Washington
Posts: 1,926
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by backlash View Post
I guess they think it's somehow different than begging on the street corner,they're wrong.
I never quoted myself before but here is one example of the other side.

There was a guy that stood at the freeway off ramp with a sign.
I just ignored him like I always do.
Then I read his story in the paper.
He was hit by a car when he stopped to help a stranded motorist.
Spent a long time in the hospital and lost his job.
He couldn't support his family any other way so he made a sign and stood on the side of the road.
When he collected more than they needed for the day he would give the extra to other needy people.
He finally recovered enough to go back to work and he has not been on the off ramp since.
So there are exceptions to the rule, but not many.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-15-2017, 04:51 PM
SKB Female SKB is offline
Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 785
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by backlash View Post
I never quoted myself before but here is one example of the other side.
Is this a true story? When did it happen? Where?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-15-2017, 07:21 PM
Tim Horton's Avatar
Tim Horton Male Tim Horton is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Deep in the BC Bush
Posts: 5,820
Default

"Is this a true story ? When, where?"
In todays internet world I suspect that should be the first question.
---
My experience with adoption and adoption agencies is 30+ years old now, but many things will be the same.

Yes, a reputable agency would not let clients proceed if they can't afford to go through the process.. In the world today some of the costs will be reimbursed from insurance up to the point of a normal pregnancy and delivery would be paid for. But after the fact of placement. You have to be able to afford the placement costs, feed, diaper and care for the kid until then.

The problem with and to the agency system is lawyers... Quite frankly they are a real negative issue to quality, timely, stable placements. A lawyer will take on an adopting couple who can pay there fee, broker a placement, and not necessarily do the kind of pre placement screening and foundation work for a placement an agency would do.

By the time the placement gets to the point of going to juvenile court for finalization the lawyer can guide adoptive parents through that easily in most states. This all satisfies the letter of the law most places, but still leaves "baggage" in the works that an agency would detect, correct, or take care through there process. Many times this baggage leads to failures.

My 5 cents worth of knowledge on this.
__________________
Always fresh.
Keep your stick on the ice. Red Green
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-15-2017, 08:15 PM
Terri Terri is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,846
Default

When I have "known" someone on a forum for many years, I am good with it. I might even give.

I do not give to strangers, though. Who knows if they are being honest or not?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-15-2017, 10:34 PM
doc doc is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: central WI--finally!
Posts: 1,473
Default

Sherlock Holmes story The Man With the Twisted Lip: a news reporter assumes a disguise as a beggar and works for a day in order to write a story. He did so well he gave up his job and went to begging full time making a small fortune. That was the 1890s. Some dead Greek once said 3000 yrs ago, "There's nothing new under the Sun."
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-16-2017, 12:19 AM
backlash's Avatar
backlash Male backlash is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Dry side of Washington
Posts: 1,926
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SKB View Post
Is this a true story? When did it happen? Where?
Yes it is a true story.
Happened in Prosser, Washington.

http://www.yakimaherald.com/news/loc...4dc3a6e47.html

For all the cynics out there.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-16-2017, 12:34 AM
SKB Female SKB is offline
Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 785
Default

I liked it better when people gave for no other reason than they wanted to and they thought it might help someone else.

Not long ago someone was desperate to help me. She bought me jewelry, wanted to buy me clothes, took me out to eat when I wasn't hungry and was generally annoying. When I asked her why she was acting this way, she told me she wanted to avoid the cheap seats in heaven!

Years ago a woman I know gave away her old car because she wanted a new one. Give to get is the name of the game. Those are the people who enable panhandlers.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-16-2017, 12:51 AM
SKB Female SKB is offline
Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 785
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by backlash View Post
Yes it is a true story.
Happened in Prosser, Washington.
http://www.yakimaherald.com/news/loc...4dc3a6e47.html
For all the cynics out there.
Thanks for the article. It doesn't ring true for some reason.

He could have applied for disability and food stamps. His teen daughter could get a job after school or on weekends. If he was in great pain, hanging out on a street corner in all kinds of weather wouldn't be helping him feel better. I don't think he was doing the right thing, what kind of example is he setting for his child? He'd get better faster by not panhandling. And blowing through $20,000 in 6 months? What the heck!
There's still over $4,000 in the Gofundme account.

Last edited by SKB; 06-16-2017 at 01:00 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-16-2017, 01:26 AM
SKB Female SKB is offline
Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 785
Default

From the article:
"Travel across the state for medical appointments, rent at the RV park where the family stays, food, electricity bills and other costs depleted the donation money."

Could those medical procedures be done locally?
They own an RV?
Mom and daughter could stay home some of the time.
Electric bills? How high? I'm in Texas, mine are higher than his in the NW.

If Medicaid was covering his medical, they would have info on where he could get additional help, even if it was temporary.

If he was doing the right thing, he wouldn't have felt the way he did. He had a guilty conscience.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -2. The time now is 07:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 1996 to Present. Backwoods Home Magazine, Inc.