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  #1  
Old 01-22-2016, 01:40 AM
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Lightbulb Organic Gardening Ideas - Permaculture Projetcs

Hello friends,

Projects in my organic garden.

Permaculture way?

Ideas: ---> My organic garden projects

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Old 01-22-2016, 08:15 PM
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Help us out here, if you can, Jardinier. What exactly is "permaculture," other than just another catch phrase to help sell books?

Commercial food producers need to use technology because they need to squeeze every last cent possible out of each acre or they run the risk of going broke. Why bother producing if you're just going to break even? And if they stop producing, who will feed the masses?

The rest of us hobbyists can produce all we need and then still have plenty of tomatoes and cucumbers left over to give away to friends even without using pesticides or artificial fertilizers.
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Old 01-31-2018, 12:42 AM
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Lightbulb Question

Thank you doc
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Old 02-01-2018, 01:48 AM
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I did a search titled "Wikipedia permaculture"

The definition given there boiled down was to maximize the land use, resources and plant yield. With a whole bunch of principles of how to go about doing this.

This was all invented by a grad student and a professor somewhere.

I'm sure for a beginner there will be helpful info there. I'm always up to going through information to glean some useful detail. Useful is different for all of us.

However anyone having a solid basic knowledge is likely already doing much or all this. Also with an eye to integrate location, local weather, personal resources, skills and other like quantities, many not listed in the steps provided.

Even though it is my picture under the definition of "black thumb" I do know these basics, and like you said Doc. I suspect a lot to do with making the book sell.

None the less, thanks for sharing Jardinier. I applaud your stamina, skill, and ambition as you have made many very useful and quality projects useful to you, and good contributions on "how to"
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Old 02-01-2018, 02:11 PM
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Because I am handicapped, I have kind of figured that Permaculture is "plant once, harvest forever". Oh. I took an on-line course, half of which was taking advantage of natural features like broken shade and local water and the other half was visual, but it STILL boils down to "plant once, harvest forever" in my mind.

So.

I have some very dwarf trees, and I have been giving the idea of potatos some real hard thought. I have figured out a way to have annual potatos with no digging, but I would like PERENNIAL potatos with no digging, and that will be harder. This year I will do the annual potatos using a new variety that yields better, and next year.... who knows?

I am still thinking about it. Fall is still a while away.

I would also like to see if I can winter over broccoli in a cold frame, etc. The idea of perennial broccoli is pretty cool. I am glad I did not try it this year: it got to -8 this year and that is probably too cold. Next year will be milder, I hope.
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Old 02-01-2018, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Terri View Post
Permaculture is "plant once, harvest forever". .
Great idea, but we don't live in the FantasyLand of the TreeHuggers.

Nut & fruit trees & shrubs are perennials, but, except for maybe asparagus, crop plants are annuals.

I suppose we could just chance it and let seeds fall where they may, hoping enough germinate each spring to give us continuing annual crops, but then that would essentially be a return to a hunting/gathering lifestyle. They say that takes 2 sq mi of habitat per person.
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Old 02-01-2018, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Terri View Post
Because I am handicapped, I have kind of figured that Permaculture is "plant once, harvest forever". Oh. I took an on-line course, half of which was taking advantage of natural features like broken shade and local water and the other half was visual, but it STILL boils down to "plant once, harvest forever" in my mind.

So.

I have some very dwarf trees, and I have been giving the idea of potatos some real hard thought. I have figured out a way to have annual potatos with no digging, but I would like PERENNIAL potatos with no digging, and that will be harder. This year I will do the annual potatos using a new variety that yields better, and next year.... who knows?

I am still thinking about it. Fall is still a while away.

I would also like to see if I can winter over broccoli in a cold frame, etc. The idea of perennial broccoli is pretty cool. I am glad I did not try it this year: it got to -8 this year and that is probably too cold. Next year will be milder, I hope.

You can probably overwinter broccoli in a cold frame if you have a "hot frame" contingency. In other words, either bury a soil heating cable or mount a light fixture and bulb inside the frame with a thermostat attached that would turn the heat on if the temp got below , say 28 F. for broccoli. You can also make an insulated cover that you put on at night and remove in the morning to help out. Another concept is to have a "double cold frame" or a cold frame inside a "low tunnel". The double shelter helps keep the temperature stable. This all works best with green crops like lettuce, chard, miner's lettuce, etc. better than with fruiting crops however. You can also put a straw bale over a plot of carrots or other root crop and overwinter things that don't normally overwinter where you are.
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Old 02-01-2018, 09:40 PM
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Permaculture...... Plant once harvest over and over...

Yes and no.... Asparagus, rhubarb, super celery (don't know the right name), walking onion and likely others are perennial.

I know commercial table potatoes are sprayed after harvest and washing to help make them storage stable. Seed potatoes are not sprayed like table grades. However, KarenBC tells me any potato that will sprout the small buds you see older fruits have will grow and produce. Maybe not as good as a dedicated seed potato, but will produce. Half a row of beets and some onions left unharvested over winter, the next season will produce seed that can be gathered. It takes close watch and care to harvest this seed she says.

Lesson is.... There are things that can be done to not depend on seed stores etc, if you have the time and stamina to do that. But then I'm black thumb and do the muscle work and leave the thinking to her.... In the garden at least..
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Old 02-02-2018, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Help us out here, if you can, Jardinier. What exactly is "permaculture," other than just another catch phrase to help sell books?
Everything he posts is just SPAM to get hits on his own site.

Look at his posting history and you'll see he pops in a couple of times a year with links to his stuff and not much more.

He also does the same on many other sites.
Google his name and you'll find his SPAM across the internet.
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  #10  
Old 02-02-2018, 02:00 PM
Terri Terri is online now
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Originally Posted by Bearfootfarm View Post
Everything he posts is just SPAM to get hits on his own site.

Look at his posting history and you'll see he pops in a couple of times a year with links to his stuff and not much more.

He also does the same on many other sites.
Google his name and you'll find his SPAM across the internet.
His webpage takes forever for my small computer to load, because of all the ads, so I no longer go to his web page. I have ZERO problem with him trying to earn money on-line, as I do surveys for pocket money myself, but my computer tends to stall at his web page so I avoid it.

Your mileage may vary.
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  #11  
Old 02-02-2018, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by doc View Post
Great idea, but we don't live in the FantasyLand of the TreeHuggers.

Nut & fruit trees & shrubs are perennials, but, except for maybe asparagus, crop plants are annuals.
Yes, fruit trees and asparagus are part of my plans, as is strawberries. Nut trees are too big and I would have to fight the squirrels. I have seen some darned good and simple squirrel snares, along with advice on how to locate them, but I have decided not to go that route. I like watching squirrels, though I know they are tree rats.

Still to come are the annuals, which is why I am keen on doing something with potatos. Right now I am figuring a long bed that is about 1 foot wide, planted to potatos, fertilized with chicken bedding, and at harvest time I can use the riding mower to pull away the wood at the side of the beds and then use hand tools to help me harvest the spuds (my ankles are not good, so I often sit and use hand tools to garden.) Then I can put the wood back and return the soil to the raised bed, all while sitting down.

One alternative would be to use something light like potting soil to fill the bed, and then I can just stick my hand down and get the spuds, but that would cost a small fortune and so I will probably use leaves, soil, and chicken bedding.

I realize that I must b e careful with chicken poo: I have been using it for many years.

Still to be worked on: no dig carrots, permaculture salad greens that winter over, and protecting spuds so that they come back every year. I do have some ideas.
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Old 02-03-2018, 02:45 AM
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Terri..... PM to KarenBC about how she grows potatoes in pots... What few plants we have do wonderful. And easy as can be. We will have more potatoes, and other stuff this year now that we have the tractor to do a lot of the work. Problem here will be keeping moose and bear out of things. It isn't like deer and such. When you have an animal close to a half ton that can clear a 2 meter fence, or just rip it open, it isn't easy to garden. Tough to handle at times, ask Doninalaska.

Problem we have here is growing season. According to the records we have anywhere from 80 to 115 days between frosts. However that does not have anything to do with how soon or how late ground temperature stays useful to crops, which is ultra important to things prospering.

Varieties in seed catalogs here in the GWN are likely to be quite different than many places. We are having a wonderful time sorting through catalogs, making lists, garden maps. All while getting a new layer of 15 - 20cm of new snow last night.
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:15 PM
Doninalaska Doninalaska is offline
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Terri..... PM to KarenBC about how she grows potatoes in pots... What few plants we have do wonderful. And easy as can be. We will have more potatoes, and other stuff this year now that we have the tractor to do a lot of the work. Problem here will be keeping moose and bear out of things. It isn't like deer and such. When you have an animal close to a half ton that can clear a 2 meter fence, or just rip it open, it isn't easy to garden. Tough to handle at times, ask Doninalaska.

Problem we have here is growing season. According to the records we have anywhere from 80 to 115 days between frosts. However that does not have anything to do with how soon or how late ground temperature stays useful to crops, which is ultra important to things prospering.

Varieties in seed catalogs here in the GWN are likely to be quite different than many places. We are having a wonderful time sorting through catalogs, making lists, garden maps. All while getting a new layer of 15 - 20cm of new snow last night.
I think the problems we have in the North are different than those in Kansas. We have "Big" problems like moose and bears, but they probably have more trouble than we do with diseases and insects. My only problem cold-blooded critters outside are slugs and root maggots, and inside with aphids and occasional mildew in the greenhouses. Moose are the biggest warm-blooded problem for the garden, and they take up residence in the area; bears are a problem, too, as they can simply knock out a window or take down a small building, but they are transient here, and usually pass through during the salmon runs on the way to the fish. I remember nematodes, and squash borers being big problems for me when I gardened in warmer climes, and lots of diseases spread by caterpillars and other insects (Cucumber Mosaic being one). Here we essentially get 'sterilized' by the cold--the ground freezes many feet deep-- and the cold season is long enough to kill most insect pests and diseases. We don't have skunks, raccoons, or snakes. Just like living, we have to pick the set of problems we want to live with and that best suits our natures. Once in a while I ponder the idea of moving to a warmer clime where the growing season is longer and I would be able to grow a number of crops more easily, but then I remember the fits I had over the problems in warmer places, and I reconsider. My son just told me yesterday that he had a moose grab one of his mature apple trees (they don't get really big here) and pull on it until the trunk snapped. I had tortoises wipe out my watermelon crop one year, but I never had anything take down an entire tree when I lived down south.
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Old 02-11-2018, 02:00 AM
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From Doninalaska....
I think the problems we have in the North are different than those in Kansas. We have "Big" problems like moose and bears, but they probably have more trouble than we do with diseases and insects.

Moose are the biggest warm-blooded problem for the garden, and they take up residence in the area; bears are a problem, too, as they can simply knock out a window or take down a small building, but they are transient here, and usually pass through during the salmon runs on the way to the fish.

Here we essentially get 'sterilized' by the cold--the ground freezes many feet deep-- and the cold season is long enough to kill most insect pests and diseases. We don't have skunks, raccoons, or snakes.

My son just told me yesterday that he had a moose grab one of his mature apple trees (they don't get really big here) and pull on it until the trunk snapped.
xxxx
Yes... Here in our part of the GWN, moose are a pest. They trimmed the top out of one of our young cherry trees. It still produced a bit, but not as it would have. They trampled a portion of our honey berry bush getting to some browse there.

The bears are a constant pain in our crab apple trees. Not the apples they eat, but the branches they break down pawing around in the trees. Then of course they will tear the door off the barn to get to chickens, rabbits, and other small livestock. We don't have a problem with bears and fish runs here, but if you are in there territories or where territories border or overlap you see a lot of activity from multiple bears. Soon enough it will be time to keep flashlights and buckshot at the ready.

Not much for insects other than mosquitoes and wasps. Growing season length and more important soil temp days make a big difference in growing varieties and strategies here.

We have 5 seed and shrub catalogs to go through so far. Have about 4 pages of "wish list" from the one catalog that has free shipping....

Only problem will be to get the 1.3 meters of snow on flat ground melted and ground thawed. Going to take a while.
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Old 02-11-2018, 05:07 PM
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From Doninalaska....
I think the problems we have in the North are different than those in Kansas. We have "Big" problems like moose and bears, but they probably have more trouble than we do with diseases and insects.

Moose are the biggest warm-blooded problem for the garden, and they take up residence in the area; bears are a problem, too, as they can simply knock out a window or take down a small building, but they are transient here, and usually pass through during the salmon runs on the way to the fish.

Here we essentially get 'sterilized' by the cold--the ground freezes many feet deep-- and the cold season is long enough to kill most insect pests and diseases. We don't have skunks, raccoons, or snakes.

My son just told me yesterday that he had a moose grab one of his mature apple trees (they don't get really big here) and pull on it until the trunk snapped.
xxxx
Yes... Here in our part of the GWN, moose are a pest. They trimmed the top out of one of our young cherry trees. It still produced a bit, but not as it would have. They trampled a portion of our honey berry bush getting to some browse there.

The bears are a constant pain in our crab apple trees. Not the apples they eat, but the branches they break down pawing around in the trees. Then of course they will tear the door off the barn to get to chickens, rabbits, and other small livestock. We don't have a problem with bears and fish runs here, but if you are in there territories or where territories border or overlap you see a lot of activity from multiple bears. Soon enough it will be time to keep flashlights and buckshot at the ready.

Not much for insects other than mosquitoes and wasps. Growing season length and more important soil temp days make a big difference in growing varieties and strategies here.

We have 5 seed and shrub catalogs to go through so far. Have about 4 pages of "wish list" from the one catalog that has free shipping....

Only problem will be to get the 1.3 meters of snow on flat ground melted and ground thawed. Going to take a while.
Vesey's shipped to me free this year. They are a Canadian company that has offices on both sides of the border, similar to Stokes, which is an American company with offices in Canada. Stokes charges for shipping, however. One way to thaw show over your garden is to spread/sprinkles wood ashes on top of the snow. It melts the snow and adds potassium to the soil.
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