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Old 03-24-2009, 12:51 AM
ccfarms ccfarms is offline
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Default New to the cattle raising

I have recently purchased three bred cows with calves on their side. *The calves are close to 6 months about 250, 300lbs. *I need to work them and i was going to call a vet for price. *What am i looking at as far as shots and vet maintenance? *These are 5 and 7 year old cows that have a touch of mange i guess. *They have some bare spots. *I'm calling the vet this week and don't want to sound entirely ignorant, which i am. *I have friends that have knowledge but i want to see what a vet will charge to work this small amount of cattle. *I appreciate any help. *I live in Oklahoma if that helps on the identification on expected vaccines. *I'm really not looking at the cost but what i should expect them to do to the cattle as far as vaccinations.
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Old 03-24-2009, 10:43 AM
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rivahmom Female rivahmom is offline
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Default Re: New to the cattle raising

I have no cattle experience. However, welcome to the forum.
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Old 03-24-2009, 12:38 PM
Anon001 Anon001 is offline
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Default Re: New to the cattle raising

Welcome to the forum.....
I have a cow/calf operation as my main source of income.
A vet will usually charge a fee for coming out to your place. If you go to the vet, they won't charge but many times they will have what they call a "chute fee". This is a fee they charge per animal like a doctor's office fee...sorta...

If they look "mangy" they will need to be dewormed most likely.... He will probably do it by pouring a "liquid" down the spine. You will also be looking at vaccinatios. The vaccinations needed vary be geographic location. But they will most likely be vaccinated for "red nose", "lepto" (leptospirosis), and "black leg".

Also, if the calves are bulls, he will castrate them if you want him to.

What I would suggest..... Watch him very very closely. See what he does. Watch how and where he gives an injection. Ask what is in each injection. Notice the difference as to whether he goes just under the skin or into the muscle. They vary. Also watch what he does when he castrates. There are three ways. A band, a "ratchet", or actual cutting.

What the vet will do for you, you can do for yourself and save a LOT of money. The things he will use, you can buy over the counter. That is why I say to watch him very closely. If you are a "visual" learner, you can learn by watching and asking.

Also, if the vet is to come out to your place to do the work, you have to have a place for him to work....You will need either a chute of some kind to hold them in or a head gate or a rope to a post. If he has a hard time working them at your place, he may refuse to come back out in the future. I would beg or borrow a trailer and take them to the vet. It will be cheaper than him coming to you.

Good luck and welcome!
Paul
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Old 03-24-2009, 10:44 PM
ccfarms ccfarms is offline
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Default Re: New to the cattle raising

Thanks for the reply paul.
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Old 03-30-2009, 03:17 AM
quantum500 quantum500 is offline
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Default Re: New to the cattle raising

I would cut the vet completely out of the whole deal. *From my experience if the vets knew what they were doing they would not have the job they do. *If you are not going to co-mingle with any other cattle, vaccinations are a complete waste of time and money. *Brand them castrate them and cut their horns. *There are a few really good cheap tricks that could actually make this venture of yours profitable. *First and foremost is you're not afraid to get cow shit and blood on you.

*I would be interested to hear Paul's experience since his life blood is cows. *From my experience he gave some very naive recommendations.
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Old 03-30-2009, 12:29 PM
Anon001 Anon001 is offline
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Default Re: New to the cattle raising

Quote:
Originally Posted by quantum500
*I would be interested to hear Paul's experience since his life blood is cows. *From my experience he gave some very naive recommendations.
What would you consider "naive recommendations"? I do ALL my own vetwork. I have a very healthy herd due to the culling and pasturing practices as part of the program. However, someone that is new to cattle most likely won't know what to do when it comes to dehorning or castrating.

You may think vaccines are not needed but that is about as ignorant in this case as anything you could suggest only because you know nothing of their situation. Her cows/calves DO NOT have to be in a pasture where other cattle have been to be exposed to bacterias and viruses that can sicken or kill a calf or cow. Many of the "pathogens" are airborne. If they have no cattle nearby and ther has never been cattle, deer, elk, etc, then they may be fine without vaccines. But vaccines cost very little.... They are VERY inexpensive if you buy them and do it yourself.

I think your recommendations are the naive and ignorant recommendations and to tell someone to not use vaccinations is wrong. It is their decision but, someone giving responsible advice would recommend vaccinating based on the geographic location. But you could say that it may not be needed. You CANNOT responsibly tell someone that vaccinations are NOT needed if you don't know where they are located, the history of their land, etc. Some pathogens will remain in the soil and viable for years.

So.... I was giving what would be considered "responsible" advice in response to a good question.

I know a guy near here that never vaccinated. His neighbor, across the road, bought a few calves. The other guy's calves suddenly got sick and it cost him over $10 per head because what they needed was not something he could buy over the counter. The pathogen was airborne and came from across the road. Tell him there is no need to vaccinate!

I have been around cattle all my life and was raised on a large spread. So, I do know a little bit about cattle. I have a lot to learn but I do know the importance of vaccinations.

Again... what part of my recommendations were "naive"?

Paul
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Old 03-30-2009, 05:14 PM
quantum500 quantum500 is offline
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Default Re: New to the cattle raising

I regress I was probably a little harsh with naive comment. I'm really not fond of vets or any of there recommendations. My family and I buy 4000+ calfs a year through the sale barn so we get a fair amount of "experience". We do have a vaccination program but it is very minimal, our cattle coming from three sale barns are exposed to about everything you could think of. So having three pairs around and not vaccinating would not bother me in the least. We never vaccinate any calfs that are born here until they get weaned. The worst vaccine that I have used is anything for BVD. We tried all kinds of different brands and it just made things worse. When we quite vaccinating for it all together our problems dropped to near nothing 2 years ago. It seems like many of the big drug manufactures have resorted to causing problems to line their pockets. I don't think its any different in human medicine. The cure can sometimes be worse than the disease.

Sorry for the attack Paul. I really didn't mean to make it out like that, but after a read it again today I was being an asshole. Hope to teach you a thing or 2 about cows in the near future.
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Old 03-30-2009, 09:51 PM
Anon001 Anon001 is offline
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Default Re: New to the cattle raising

Apology accepted. *Now about me. *I was raised on a ranch that we've had since 1892. *At it's largest it was 6,000 acres. *My uncle sold his part and we were left with 3, 000 by the time I was old enough to be of any value working. *

I understand what you say about the vaccines. *I know a man that is almost 80 that never vaccinated a single animal. *But I also have seen some that lost several by the time they could get an outbreak under control. *The ONLY things I vaccinate for are red nose, lepto, and black leg. *To me that is minimal.

My whole point was to address ccfarms question and not to try and convince them whether they should or should not vaccinate. *Ccfarms made the statement they were calling the vet to work them and wanted to know what would be done I was tell ccfarms what to expect and how to avoid the high vet fees in the future. *

Ccfarms stated that the cows already had a touch of mange. *That tells you there is already something, which could be one of a couple different problems. *

I believe preventive antibiotics, growth hormones, and some pour-ons and sprays to be bad news. *However, I believe that if you get a basic vaccine, it is not bac because it is not chemical in nature.. It is either a killed or live virus (depending on which one) that does nothing more than build antibodies for resistance. *But, if for example black leg makes them sick, it isn't the vaccine. *It means you already had it and made it worse by the vaccine. *Also, from my experience managing a coop, I saw time after time where a stockman would give one inoculation and not follow up with the second which means the first one does them no good and sometimes does more harm than good.

So, as to their question of what to expect from a vet, I would tell them that the would offer vaccinations based on what he thinks is needed for their part of the country. *He could also castrate at the same time. *However, it would be a good opportunity for them to learn so as to be able to do it for themselves in the future. *I don't know of any stockmen that actually use a vet for dehorning, castrating, vaccinations, antibiotics, etc unless it is something that can't be bought over the counter.

Also... keep in mind that if I lose one or two calves out of 70 or 80, it is a loss but won't devistate my operation. *However, if someone with only three calves loses one, that is 33% loss rate.... that is devastating to any operation of any size. * *Also, if a vaccine is proven to cause a problem I have seen the manufactureres make good on it.

I've said all I need and I think I answered the question as stated and I don't hold a grudge.... forgive and forget. *It's forgotten...
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