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BHM's Homesteading & Self-Reliance Forum
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Go Back   BHM Forum > Homesteading > Food > Breads & Grains

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  #1  
Old 05-23-2009, 03:15 PM
kldickinson1 kldickinson1 is offline
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Default Why didn't my bread rise in the oven? Weird!

The quest: A 100% whole wheat loaf that isn't too dense to be used for sandwiches.

Using a hybrid of baking techniques, here was my latest attempt:

1. Make 12-hour sponge of flour, water, yeast, and ascorbic acid.
2. Add flour, salt, honey; knead on low (Kitchen Aid w/dough hook) five minutes. Knead on medium one minute. (Dough is extremely wet and cannot be kneaded by hand.)
3. Let rise to double.
4. Fold dough over itself, rotate the bowl, fold, rotate, fold. Let rise to double.
5. Repeat Step 4.
6. Transfer to pan, let rise to double.
7. Preheat oven to a whopping 500 degrees.
8. Bake at 500 for 10 minutes; finish at 400 for an additional 23 minutes.

Crumb was definitely more open than previous attempts with small holes (hooray!) but no gaping worm tunnels. Crust was crunchy, not leathery. BUT: The dough did not rise in the oven one lick! It came out exactly the same size that it went in!

Can anyone see anything in the instructions that led to this? Is it a problem that can be remedied simply by letting the dough rise to the desired size in the pan before baking, or does an oven rise produce some deliciously desirable result I should continue to chase?

I'm also happy to explain the purpose behind any of the steps - there's some neat food science behind it that holds up in practice.

Thanks!

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  #2  
Old 05-23-2009, 10:45 PM
Anon001 Anon001 is offline
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Default Re: Why didn't my bread rise in the oven? Weird!

I know nothing about kneading in a mixer. However, if you try to make a sponge by itself, it can be iffy on making the bread rise. There are a couple things that do stand out. I know kneading by hand takes at least 20 to 30minutes for a good bread. If is properly kneaded and the gluten is worked long enough to give it the elasticity it should rise. However, I notice that your instructions call for three rises.

In your instructions, you transfer to pan, let rise to double and then cook. Did you not wait on your dough to rise the third time before cooking it? It sounds to me like you didn't give it a chance to rise double the third time before putting it in the oven.

I will also say that I have used yeast breads but it has been many years. I basically just use sourdough for all my bread baking and no yeast. But, a dough that is too wet to knead by hand is a dough that is too wet.

Even though whole wheat requires more liquid than "white" flour, you should still be able to hand knead it just fine. If it is too wet for hand kneading you have way too much liquid.

Hope that helps and I hope someone else will chime in as well.
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  #3  
Old 05-24-2009, 04:18 PM
kldickinson1 kldickinson1 is offline
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Default Re: Why didn't my bread rise in the oven? Weird!

All of the rises went without a hitch (rises two and three are quick, too - it's only about 30 minutes until the dough doubles, so in essence, the dough only spends a total of two hours rising). THe dough doubled completely in the pan. The bizarre thing is that the heat of the oven had no effect on the height of the dough - one size in, same size out. It's like the dough just seized up. I've never seen this happen - any other ideas? Just a flukey loaf?
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  #4  
Old 05-24-2009, 04:57 PM
Anon001 Anon001 is offline
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Default Re: Why didn't my bread rise in the oven? Weird!

Then I don't understand your problem. If the bread doubled in size before you baked, that is all you get. It doesn't double in size and then automatically jump up out of the pan when heat is applied. lol... if it doubles, and you cook it, that is what you want. With regular bread, when you put it in the oven, it will usually not rise much more than it already has especially if you blast it with 500 degree heat. What happens is that you blast it, the sudden high heat "sets" the crust or dries it enough that the bread can't rise more.

I never bake bread as hot as what you were giving for yours. Depending on the breads, I will use anywhere from 350 to 400 but I NEVER go over 400. My sourdough breads bake about 40 to 50 minutes on 350 whether whole wheat or not.
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  #5  
Old 05-26-2009, 12:42 PM
kldickinson1 kldickinson1 is offline
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Default Re: Why didn't my bread rise in the oven? Weird!

No, it certainly doesn't double in size in the oven, but there is DEFINITELY a good amount of rise that happens when a yeasted dough hits the oven (pros even have a name for it - it's called "oven spring&quot. I have never in my life had a bread not budge an inch in the oven.

Has anyone else had a dough not move in the oven?
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  #6  
Old 05-26-2009, 03:16 PM
Anon001 Anon001 is offline
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Default Re: Why didn't my bread rise in the oven? Weird!

you're right. Bread usually does rise a bit in the oven. But you had already had the bread rise and I think when you hit the bread with a temp as high as 500, I don't know how it can rise much at all because the crust dries and hardens too quickly. Try turning the oven down to 350 and see if it rises more. But, dang... getting a double rise before baking is plenty... Why would you need more of a rise?
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  #7  
Old 05-26-2009, 04:52 PM
kldickinson1 kldickinson1 is offline
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Default Re: Why didn't my bread rise in the oven? Weird!

Yup, that's my next target. I'm going to try a more consistent oven temperature. The high temp is to develop a good crust, which I don't want in a sandwich loaf anyway, so that can go.

I will post after my next loaf.
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  #8  
Old 05-26-2009, 11:36 PM
Anon001 Anon001 is offline
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Default Re: Why didn't my bread rise in the oven? Weird!

Good luck....
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  #9  
Old 06-04-2009, 02:35 PM
kldickinson1 kldickinson1 is offline
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Default Re: Why didn't my bread rise in the oven? Weird!

Here's the latest from the kitchen: I tried the exact same recipe four times, dutifully changing only one variable at a time. Punching the dough down, using a French fold instead of a punch, 500 degrees for 10 minutes and then 350 for 23 minutes, and a constant 350 degrees for 43 minutes.

No variable issued a single iota of oven spring. Therefore, I concluded that the recipe was garbage and I scrapped it.

Starting with a new recipe as a base, I have added 1/2 inch of oven spring to my 100% whole wheat bread. Hardly worthy of mention, but at least I'm on the right track.

I'm going to check out the thread "Replacing store-bought sandwich bread" and see where that lands me.

Thank you for your help, and I will keep you posted!
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  #10  
Old 06-04-2009, 08:32 PM
Anon001 Anon001 is offline
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Default Re: Why didn't my bread rise in the oven? Weird!

I think you'll like bee_pipes' bread recipe. It is a good basic one. The one you tried here is not the typical basic bread... Also, keep in mind that whole wheat is a completely different product from all-purpose flour and bread flour. It works differently and has different properties when it comes to baking.
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  #11  
Old 06-21-2009, 12:24 PM
flourgirl flourgirl is offline
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Default old flour

Due to the glut of wheat last year there is a lot of old flour on store shelves. The protein in flour deteriorates over time and that is what makes bread rise. That could be the cause of so many people having trouble with their bread rising.
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  #12  
Old 06-21-2009, 07:01 PM
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Bootz Female Bootz is offline
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Default

A lot of my recipes do not rise in the oven. The rise is slower and not activated by heat so much as time. A more intense heat isn't better than a warm kitchen. So 10 minutes in the oven is no better than 10 minutes on the counter. Mak sure the loaf is fully risen before putting it in the oven.
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  #13  
Old 06-21-2009, 08:54 PM
Anon001 Anon001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bootz View Post
A lot of my recipes do not rise in the oven. The rise is slower and not activated by heat so much as time. A more intense heat isn't better than a warm kitchen. So 10 minutes in the oven is no better than 10 minutes on the counter. Mak sure the loaf is fully risen before putting it in the oven.
That was my whole point... It should already have risen before baking.... I just couldn't say it quite as well or as concisely as you did. lol
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