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BHM's Homesteading & Self-Reliance Forum
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Go Back   BHM Forum > Homesteading > Plants > Farm/ Garden/Flowers/ Shrubs/ Trees

Farm/ Garden/Flowers/ Shrubs/ Trees If it grows in the soil, this is the forum.

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Old 02-11-2010, 03:49 PM
nhlivefreeordie Male nhlivefreeordie is offline
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Default Stayman Winesap Apples

Does anyone grow this, and what do you use as a pollinator?
Next to McCoun, this is my second favorite apple, but from some reading, they need another apple as a pollinator since they are triploid.
Would McCoun be a good pollinator for this, or would something else be better suited?
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Old 02-11-2010, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhlivefreeordie View Post
Does anyone grow this, and what do you use as a pollinator?
Next to McCoun, this is my second favorite apple, but from some reading, they need another apple as a pollinator since they are triploid.
Would McCoun be a good pollinator for this, or would something else be better suited?

Stayman Winesap is a notorious late bloomer. Macoun, being a mid-season bloomer, would be an acceptable pollinator (assuming some overlap of blooming in a given year) although probably not an ideal one. The primary challenge you may face though depends on whether you have any other non-triploid varieties that could pollinate the Macoun in return. If these are the only two varieties you're growing, you'd probably find it beneficial to add an additional non-triploid variety so that everything has a source of viable pollen.

For the record, a list of more suitable pollinators for Stayman Winesap can be found here. Look at the very bottom of this chart and you'll see "Red Winesap." Yes, it's the very last one to bloom on this chart. Other ideal pollinators should be chosen from the apple varieties listed in the "Late Bloom" category down the left side of this chart. Macoun will work, but it may not be quite as effective a pollinator as other Late Bloom varieties would.

Go ahead and use the Macoun to pollinate; but I'd also consider adding a few trees of another Late Bloom apple such as NW Greening, Nittany, Rome or Melrose to cover your bases. Northern Spy is a fantastic Late Bloom variety, but it's one of the very last varieties to begin bearing fruit. It often takes Northern Spy 6 to 10 years to produce its first flowers, depending on the rootstock on which it's grafted. If you're looking for it to be a pollinator, Northern Spy would be a long wait.



John
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Old 02-11-2010, 07:13 PM
nhlivefreeordie Male nhlivefreeordie is offline
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I am glad I started thinking about this now, as this will have some affect on the orchard, even to the size of it. If I had planted my two varieties without asking, I may have done a lot of work for nothing. I was only planning on having 6-8 of each apple, now I need to add a third, so I may drop down to 4 of each with another 4 of the missing late polinator. Can I get one that will sufficiently overlap both?
John, what would you suggest, this is getting complicated. I will be in North Haverhill NH, which should put me with about the same weather as you beings we will be less than 200 miles from each other.
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Old 02-11-2010, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by nhlivefreeordie View Post
I am glad I started thinking about this now, as this will have some affect on the orchard, even to the size of it. If I had planted my two varieties without asking, I may have done a lot of work for nothing. I was only planning on having 6-8 of each apple, now I need to add a third, so I may drop down to 4 of each with another 4 of the missing late polinator. Can I get one that will sufficiently overlap both?
John, what would you suggest, this is getting complicated. I will be in North Haverhill NH, which should put me with about the same weather as you beings we will be less than 200 miles from each other.
In an orchard as small as 12 o 16 trees, you'd only need one tree of the extra pollinator. If I were doing it, I'd probably go with:

5 of the Macoun
5 of the Stayman Winesap
5 of Honeycrisp (because every orchard needs this variety)
1 of Melrose (great apple, and an ideal pollinator for the Winesap)

I'd plant the Melrose somewhere close to the middle of the block of trees.

Also, you need to be very cognizant of the rootstocks on which you're getting these trees. Don't buy them at the local garden center. Order them from a place like Adams County Nursery or Raintree Nursery. They'll both ship beautiful, healthy trees right to your doorstep. Trees on Full Standard rootstocks will get huge and take 5 to 7 years to first fruit, whereas more dwarfing rootstocks (M26, Bud 9, M9) will take maybe 3 or 4 years. I prefer M26 (or EMLA26) and Bud 9 myself. The trees only get to about 40% of standard and are much easier to maintain.

As a point of reference, apple trees on a full standard rootstock should be planted at a spacing of 18' x 24' to allow them to produce maximum fruit, whereas the same varieties on M26 or Bud 9 can be planted in a 10' x 16' grid. Huge difference. Closer spacing, more trees that can be accommodated in the same space, with trees fruiting much sooner. If you DO want huge trees, I'd recommend getting them on a rootstock like Bud 118.

Whatever rootstock you go with, go with the same one for all of your trees (or at least one comparable in vigor.)



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Old 02-11-2010, 07:45 PM
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By the way. . .

One other variety I'd highly recommend you consider is one called Williams Pride. It's an early apple (which you don't currently have), is quite disease resistant, and is probably the best flavored disease-resistant apple.

Raintree offers it here on EMLA 26 (dwarfing rootstock) and here on M27 (which is a super dwarfing rootstock).

The EMLA 26 trees would probably get to around 12 to 14 feet in height at maturity; the M27 probably 6' to 8' tall.



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Old 02-12-2010, 12:03 AM
nhlivefreeordie Male nhlivefreeordie is offline
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Thank you very much John.

I was cognizant of the needs of the odd ball fruits I want to plant, whether they were self fertile or needed a pollinator, but to be honest, didn't even think apples were this involved until I started reading today. I am appreciative of the info, and will go forward with the plan that you have suggested. I may just have to ring you up again as we get closer to planting this summer. The house is still 3 years away, but the orchard is going to be below the house, and the area has to be cleared for the view anyway, and we figured getting planted this coming season would make it just about right time wise to start having fruit.. I would really like to keep things below 15' or so, for just the reason you mentioned, ease of maintenance.
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