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Go Back   BHM Forum > Homesteading > Education/Homeschool

Education/Homeschool Homeschooling, adult education, teaching self-reliance, and anything else education-related.

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  #41  
Old 03-24-2011, 09:40 AM
qwerty Male qwerty is offline
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Originally Posted by TigerAl View Post
Having worked in both the private and public sectors, currently as an elementary teacher, I think I have a pretty good handle on what is wrong. All you have to do is look at who is running the show. It is political. I cringe when I hear our presidents say they want to be the education president. They want to manipulate the system to their own political benefit. The various governors are no better.

Many school districts do a very good job. I saved and scraped and negotiated and was able to purchase a house in a desirable district. My children received world class high school educations. The facilities, the leadership, and the teachers were excellent. They could do an even better job if the politicians would get out of their way.

Many districts today are troubled. Many of these are in our great urban centers. You will never be able to convince me that the good districts have good teachers and poor districts have poor teachers. There are certainly money differences, but the major difference in the quality of the school is the parent involvement. Involved parents simply will not stand for the things that go on in poor schools. By the way, you have to be a better teacher to get the job done in a poor district than in a good one.

Finally, if you think for one minute that the people in charge (pols) are ever going to solve the problems that exist you are dreaming. They care about votes, so they're not going to call out all those parents. Yaking about the teachers, the unions, the kids, the money, is all smoke screen. You are getting played by the politicians. They are running the show. They should be accountable.
I agree that Teachers often get the blame because politicians are ineffective or want to get re-elected.
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  #42  
Old 03-24-2011, 09:57 AM
qwerty Male qwerty is offline
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the majority of your post offers little in the way of reasons as to why today's students are not learning despite the massive increases in funding for that purpose - it is essentially a long list of excuses -

however, the final part of your post which i have quoted above says pretty much the same thing i did - eliminate the fed and the states departments of education and totally decentralize school systems to the smallest possible working local operation - start teaching again and cease the indoctrination -
Excuses? When was the last time you taught in a public school. The time period that you want to go back to does not exist.

Education has expanded content due to national and state legislative standards. For example dual-wave particulate nature of matter. Do you know about SNP's and transposons? Dark matter? The average 16 year old student in a public school in Kentucky does.

Math used to stop requirements at Algebra I. Now it includes Algebra II, Geometry and an advanced math ( trigonometry, analytic geometry, calculus, etc) for ALL students.

Have academic standards relaxed? NO! Has grading policies sometimes been relaxed? Yes - in Kentucky at least. Because of KEES monies the state encourages schools to go to a 10 point grading scale to help students earn money for college rather than focusing on the education needed to get them prepared to use the money.

Can schools meet standards and teach the kids what they need to know? Absolutely - but it is not easy. Before someone blames teachers and calls current requirements "excuses" they need to go inside the classroom and see what is happening. It's very easy to analyze something from the sideline with broad, general statements such as "tear it down and start over again". You are welcome to your opinion, but if you want to know what is wrong with schools that don't succeed you need facts not personal viewpoints.
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  #43  
Old 03-25-2011, 02:05 PM
MooseToo MooseToo is offline
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Education has expanded content due to national and state legislative standards. For example dual-wave particulate nature of matter. Do you know about SNP's and transposons? Dark matter? The average 16 year old student in a public school in Kentucky does.
folks are getting a bit tired of hearing the n.e.a. script -

they're more concerned with the "average 16 year old student" who can't write, can't comprehend what they read and are amazed to find someone able to do simple math in their head -
they're more concerned with the horrendous drop-out rates and the amazingly high cost/student statistics considering our dismal and downward bound test comparisons with far less wealthy nations -
they're tired of all that money going to create a grandiose "educational" system that involves so little proven basic learning for kids -
they believe "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" but are far more insistent that if it is broke it needs fixed - and you're NOT going to sweet-talk them into thinking it ain't broke -

eliminate departments of education at both the federal and at the state level - take both out of the organized revenue stream between taxpayer and student - give your "dedicated and competent" teachers free rein to exercise their competency - i believe you'll realize the parental involvement you consider so needed when parents have the feeling their involvement might actually influence something -

Last edited by MooseToo; 03-25-2011 at 02:11 PM.
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  #44  
Old 03-26-2011, 12:04 PM
TigerAl Male TigerAl is offline
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I would challenge all of our forum members to offer to volunteer in a local school. Help a kid who is struggling, see for yourself what is going on in your local school. Make a difference.
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  #45  
Old 03-26-2011, 02:07 PM
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I would challenge all of our forum members to offer to volunteer in a local school. Help a kid who is struggling, see for yourself what is going on in your local school. Make a difference.
Did that.
I volunteered to read along side kids who were struggling. In doing so, I found that one boy wanted to sit on my lap, so I let him. He leaned his head against me as we read together. He looked forward to me coming in each week.
I was told by the administration that he could not sit on my lap.
Ok.
So he sat right next to me, as we read. I had a group of 4.
Again, he leaned his head on my arm as we read.
I was told he was not allowed to sit next to me, he had to sit across from me.
Ok.
So......at that point, he shut down. Wouldn't sit still, wouldn't participate, wouldn't even try to read.
I explained to the teacher that I 'understood' that with all the freaks in the world, that's why he could not sit next to me/on my lap..etc. But I have passed a backround check and he WAS learning, and now he won't try. What do I do?

She said that another mom complained that he was getting "special treatment" from me and her child was upset, so I had to make things equal.

Come to find out, this 2nd grade boy had twin 5 year old sisters, and prior to the school year starting, his mother died, of cancer. His dad was working 3 jobs to keep the roof over their heads. That this boy, age 8, was 'the man of the house' most of the time......

I asked if she explained this to the complaining mother, and she said yes, but it didn't seem to matter. Therefore, I could not give this child any special treatment.

Special treatment? Are you blanking kidding me?
His mother died, a miserable death in front of his eyes, his dad is never home because he was working, and he was 'raising' his twin 5 year old sisters.....
I showed, love, compassion, and a bit of 'nurturing' that he desperately needed, and it was helping this boy to read.....Yet I was told that I could not because "it wasn't fair".

When my kids were in public schools I volunteered my brains out, because I wanted to (A) know what was going on and (B) help.
Yeah, I FOUND OUT what was going on, and no one really wanted my help.
So I owned my responsibility for my children.
Too bad everyone else doesn't do the same.
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  #46  
Old 03-26-2011, 04:50 PM
MooseToo MooseToo is offline
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I would challenge all of our forum members to offer to volunteer in a local school. Help a kid who is struggling, see for yourself what is going on in your local school. Make a difference.
that makes for a good sound bite - but -

one of the factoids that came out in the wisconsin debacle was that the teachers who were protesting had an average income, including all percs and bennies, that was approximately twice the average income of the taxpayers who provide that income - as you should appreciate, this sort of sticks in some folks' craws -

perhaps this is not an opportune time to suggest volunteerism as a solution for poor student performance -
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  #47  
Old 03-26-2011, 04:57 PM
MooseToo MooseToo is offline
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Did that.
I volunteered to read along side kids who were struggling.
Yeah, I FOUND OUT what was going on, and no one really wanted my help.
another example of a good citizen finding out that govt beuraucracy at any and all levels places little value on common sense -
somebody worked real hard to get the pile of grant dollars needed to conduct the study that nullified common sense in this instance - i'll bet it was an "educator" -
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  #48  
Old 03-26-2011, 11:35 PM
TigerAl Male TigerAl is offline
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Laura, you did a wonderful thing. People that got in your way should know better. It happens to me almost every day. I hope no one gives up because it doesn't hurt the adults that should know better, it hurts the kids. It sounds like you took an individual interest in the child. That is wonderful. I hope you'll try again.
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  #49  
Old 03-29-2011, 01:28 AM
Trapper Male Trapper is offline
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You had me..Every time I saw the thread title my blood preasure went up but I just chose to ignore you..then I opened the thread, lol
Previously home schooled kids here..9 years
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  #50  
Old 04-03-2011, 07:10 AM
keydl keydl is offline
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I graduated HS in 63 and the 'professionals' seemed to be doing all possible to get the 'interfering' parents to get out of their way. Ten years later I had a HS graduate that could not after a year add 2 keys for .75 and 4% sales tax without an adding machine.

What I see now is that the parents are wanted back but as slave labor for the 'professionals' and we all are seeing the behavior of the 'professionals' when they don't get their way courtesy of Gov. Walker. And the lamestream press is on the side of the 'professionals' so what are they editing out of the reports - like death threats made by 'professionals' made on school equipment.

In Fla over 1/2 of the state aid to education stops in one building in Tallahassee - admin. What do they need ( if state aid is really a need )? A bookkeeper with a desktop computer to collect the attendance at 2 PM and the FDLE to do a random check to count actual attendance to keep them honest.

The Federal system fails the Constitution other than to require the states to give full credence to the laws of the other states.
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  #51  
Old 04-12-2011, 12:53 PM
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txcountrymom Female txcountrymom is offline
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We homeschool our 1st (now 2nd) grader for all of the above reasons, plus one more. In order for him to go to public school, it was opinion of the school that he needs to be medicated. Now, this determination was made at the ripe old age of 5 years old. Some boys just are not so mature at 5 years old, so I decided to take on the task of his education and social training myself, and have not been disappointed. Most people are surprised at "what a difference" they see in him - in other words, he doesn't feel the need to go into "monkey mode" to entertain all the snickering kids around him. They are also surprised that he can spell pretty much most words (since I taught him spelling rules instead of memorizing specific words), and that he can do math in his head very well for a eoy 1st grader. We are very pleased with our son's progress, but are being pressured to put him back in school with the "normal" kids. My 1st 5 children went through public school great and are in college (1 graduated and working), so it does work for some kids, but there are those like my one little guy for whom the system is just not working. Anyway, just my experience and 2 cents worth.
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  #52  
Old 04-12-2011, 06:55 PM
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offgridbob Male offgridbob is offline
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The problem I have seen in the past is your can't mass produce cooky cutter kids. One size does not fit all and the ones that don't fit get labled and put aside because they are hope less. This happened to my son. We took him out and home schooled him. He is now a manager at a chain hardware store. When the family structure broke down it took everything with it.
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  #53  
Old 04-17-2012, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qwerty View Post
Most parents were educated in the under funded public school system, and so are not smart enough to homeschool their own children.
Children who receive one-on-one homeschooling will learn more than others, giving them an unfair advantage in the marketplace. This is undemocratic.
How can children learn to defend themselves unless they have to fight off bullies on a daily basis?
Ridicule from other children is important to the socialization process.
Children in public schools can get more practice "Just Saying No" to drugs, cigarettes and alcohol.
Fluorescent lighting may have significant health benefits.
Publicly asking permission to go to the bathroom teaches young people their place in society.
The fashion industry depends upon the peer pressure that only public schools can generate.
Public schools foster cultural literacy, passing on important traditions like the singing of "Jingle Bells, Batman smells, Robin laid an egg..."
Homeschooled children may not learn important office career skills, like how to sit still for six hours straight.

This was awesome.
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  #54  
Old 04-17-2012, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Laura View Post
Did that.
I volunteered to read along side kids who were struggling. In doing so, I found that one boy wanted to sit on my lap, so I let him. He leaned his head against me as we read together. He looked forward to me coming in each week.
I was told by the administration that he could not sit on my lap.
Ok.
So he sat right next to me, as we read. I had a group of 4.
Again, he leaned his head on my arm as we read.
I was told he was not allowed to sit next to me, he had to sit across from me.
Ok.
So......at that point, he shut down. Wouldn't sit still, wouldn't participate, wouldn't even try to read.
I explained to the teacher that I 'understood' that with all the freaks in the world, that's why he could not sit next to me/on my lap..etc. But I have passed a backround check and he WAS learning, and now he won't try. What do I do?

She said that another mom complained that he was getting "special treatment" from me and her child was upset, so I had to make things equal.

Come to find out, this 2nd grade boy had twin 5 year old sisters, and prior to the school year starting, his mother died, of cancer. His dad was working 3 jobs to keep the roof over their heads. That this boy, age 8, was 'the man of the house' most of the time......

I asked if she explained this to the complaining mother, and she said yes, but it didn't seem to matter. Therefore, I could not give this child any special treatment.

Special treatment? Are you blanking kidding me?
His mother died, a miserable death in front of his eyes, his dad is never home because he was working, and he was 'raising' his twin 5 year old sisters.....
I showed, love, compassion, and a bit of 'nurturing' that he desperately needed, and it was helping this boy to read.....Yet I was told that I could not because "it wasn't fair".

When my kids were in public schools I volunteered my brains out, because I wanted to (A) know what was going on and (B) help.
Yeah, I FOUND OUT what was going on, and no one really wanted my help.
So I owned my responsibility for my children.
Too bad everyone else doesn't do the same.
This made me cry. Sometimes the world is just such a sad place. People can be so selfish. People like you are what keeps the world turning.

My son was in school and was trying to make friends. He was 6. He sat at the lunch table and several of his classmates called him stupid and weird. He looked around the table, picked up his lunch and moved to anotehr table and sat alone during lunch the rest of the time he was in this school.

As a result of this and other actual physical bullying (which I wouldn't have known about unless I was at the school) he withdrew in large part from the other kids.

When I went to the administration with this, what did they say? I should have him tested for emotional instability issues. They didn't think he knew how to respond to social clues...

So I took him out of school when it was apparent that they weren't going to do anything. Reinforced my opinion of social lessons in public and private schools.
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  #55  
Old 04-17-2012, 01:21 PM
wildturnip Female wildturnip is offline
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We homeschooled our three through high school starting when DD1 was in 6th grade, DS was in 3rd grade and DD2 was in 1st grade. They turned out to be smart, well-rounded people who are now in their 30s.

I remember when I was in school in the 60s. We had some wonderful teachers and some lousy teachers. I just happened to be a good learner and good test-taker. Some, who were just as smart as me (if not smarter!) were terrible test-takers and just didn't "show" as well.

The special ed teacher was terrible and all the special ed kids called her room "the dummy room". In high school, a friend and I volunteered in her class and it still makes me angry when I think about how she treated those little kids.

A few years ago I tutored a 12 year old who couldn't read. The school was wanting him to attend summer school. His mom asked me what I thought about that. I told her if he were my child, I would give him the summer off and let him spend a lot of time outside doing useful work and fun stuff. That's what she did. I started tutoring him again when school started up that fall. He learned to read and made the Honor Roll every year of high school. Sometimes kids just need to be kids.
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  #56  
Old 04-17-2012, 05:31 PM
chrisser Male chrisser is online now
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In most locales, public teacher and administrative staff salaries are public knowledge.

Sometimes it's like pulling teeth, but you can obtain copies of that information.

It's very interesting reading, especially when levy time rolls around.
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  #57  
Old 04-17-2012, 06:43 PM
kfander Male kfander is offline
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Education has expanded content due to national and state legislative standards. For example dual-wave particulate nature of matter. Do you know about SNP's and transposons? Dark matter? The average 16 year old student in a public school in Kentucky does.
I find that hard to believe. I don't live in Kentucky but I have relatives there, and can't see that Kentucky students are more or less well educated than students anywhere else in the country, and the average sixteen year-old couldn't make change or name even one of the people representing them in congress.
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  #58  
Old 04-17-2012, 06:50 PM
kfander Male kfander is offline
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Do you think teachers chose their profession for the money? lol
Overall, teachers do pretty darned good, especially when you consider retirement and benefits, although their paychecks are not nearly as small as people like to make them out to be.
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  #59  
Old 04-17-2012, 10:28 PM
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I would challenge all of our forum members to offer to volunteer in a local school. Help a kid who is struggling, see for yourself what is going on in your local school. Make a difference.
I would hope that most people are busy helping their own children learn to read, speak clearly, act responsibly, be polite, do math, learn to appreciate the marvels that God gave to us, learn work ethic, and learn to write well. We need to do that for our children or our grandchildren. If a parent fails to take that responsibility seriously, to teach their child, then it is sad. But it is not my responsibility to take away from my own family to teach them those things, especially not under the assumed authority of a public school. God gave my children to me to teach. He gave my grandchildren to my children, and I am supposed to help them as needed too. But it would be wrong for a mother to leave her own children to take the time to try to raise another woman's child. We must provide for our own first. If another mother refuses to do that, then it is sad. And I think it is wrong. But my responsibility lies with educating my children, not another woman's child.
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  #60  
Old 04-19-2012, 11:37 PM
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When my daughter and her family were living with me I spent much of my time correcting the granddaughter's English, I haven't the slightest idea of where they came up with some of their words. The 6 year old's favorite that DD I and haven't been able to get her to quit using is "puted" to which my standard comment is "there's no such word as "puted", it's "put" plain and simple. Hopefully they'll learn it eventually. The 8 & 10 year old's both read well above their grade level, the 8 year old on a 6th grade level and the 10 year old on a high school level, they'd rather read than do just about anything else, especially the 8 year old. They've spent most of their school life in charter schools and love it.
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