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Go Back   BHM Forum > Homesteading > Food > Canning/Preserving

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  #1  
Old 07-13-2011, 01:44 AM
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Wyobuckaroo Male Wyobuckaroo is online now
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Default "Reduced Size" Jars....

Now what I know about canning is............................. squat.

So I gotta ask.
With all the products today that are coming out in "reduced size" containers, does that apply to glass jars also ? I would presume so.

If any of these jars are suitable to reuse for canning, do you have to adjust your process, recipe, anything else to be able to use them ?

Inquiring mind
Wyo
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  #2  
Old 07-13-2011, 02:03 AM
AlchemyAcres AlchemyAcres is offline
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Originally Posted by Wyobuckaroo View Post
Now what I know about canning is............................. squat.

So I gotta ask.
With all the products today that are coming out in "reduced size" containers, does that apply to glass jars also ? I would presume so.

If any of these jars are suitable to reuse for canning, do you have to adjust your process, recipe, anything else to be able to use them ?

Inquiring mind
Wyo
It's best to stick with jars that are intended for canning.
I know that many used to use quart mayonnaise jars, but, as you said, stuff is made cheaper now....there's too much time and effort required in canning to take chances on junky jars...and yes, processing times in relation to jar size are crucial to safe canning.


~Martin
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  #3  
Old 07-13-2011, 05:53 AM
NCLee NCLee is offline
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Ditto Martin!

On a different note, now that mayo comes in plastic, there are very, very few glass food jars that will accept a lid and screw band. Those that still have metal caps are threaded for a one piece lid. Classico 32 oz tomato sauce, in a 3-pack from Sam's Club, is the only "canning" jar that I'm aware of now.

As far as I know, canning jars have remained "standard" in terms of capacity. A quart is still a quart. But, even those have been "downsized" in terms of how much glass is in the jar. I have some Ball brand jars that are around 40 years old now. All I have to do is pick up an old one and a new one to know which is which. Older ones are heavier with thicker glass.

Just 2-cents.
Lee
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  #4  
Old 07-13-2011, 10:03 AM
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This may be a dumb question, Lee, but is more glass necessarily that much better? I'm thinking that if it is a little bit less in weight, but still enough to maintain a good environment for the canned item (ie it's not like they are so cheap they are exploding, etc) then isn't a slightly lighter jar actually a good thing? Seems it would be easier to carry, reduce the load on your shelving, etc. No?
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  #5  
Old 07-14-2011, 01:34 AM
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I would think that the weight saved on the shelf would be negligible, especially when compared to a heavier, thicker jar that would last longer and be less likely to break under the rigors of canning. Just my .02.
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  #6  
Old 07-14-2011, 08:42 AM
NCLee NCLee is offline
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Catalpa is exactly right, IMHO. There isn't enough difference in the weight of individual jars to make a difference in shelving, transport, etc. Contents of the jars (liquids & solids) is the material factor in this regard.

The thicker the glass, the better it withstands the canning environment. Canning puts stress on the the glass and it is an accumulative effect. Read somewhere that canning jars can go throught about 40 cycles before stress becomes a material factor. It's a combo of the heating/cooling cycle and tiny scratches that accumulate over the years.

A way to illustrate is to think about a thin delicate wine glass and a heavy iced tea glass. Which one can take more abuse before it shatters? With manufacturer's reducing the thickness of the glass to a bare minimum, to barely get by, the life of the jars is being reduced. We're almost to the stage of pre-plastic mayo jars for some of the less canning expensive jars. (sigh)

Lee
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  #7  
Old 07-14-2011, 10:22 AM
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Oh, that makes complete sense. Thank you for your thoughtful answers. Is there any sign that your jar is getting too fatigued? Other than, you know... bursting into a million pieces?

Also, if you have a jar burst, will your pressure canner contain that???
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  #8  
Old 07-14-2011, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by his_kid View Post
Oh, that makes complete sense. Thank you for your thoughtful answers. Is there any sign that your jar is getting too fatigued? Other than, you know... bursting into a million pieces?

Also, if you have a jar burst, will your pressure canner contain that???
yes. Actually, I think the jars just break, not burst. I have had them do it in a water bath canner. When I went to remove the jar, it fell apart.
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  #9  
Old 07-14-2011, 09:59 PM
NCLee NCLee is offline
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Not that I'm aware of with regards to fatigue.

That said, I don't use really old canning jars for canning. Somestimes I run across old brand names from long ago. Sometimes these jars have a faint pink color to the glass. Those I like to use for dry storage, rather than risking losing a jar of food in the canner.

No, if guidelines are used, the jars simply break in the canner. Everything inside a pressure canner is under the same pressure. So there's no "explosion" as I imagine that you envision it.

Lee
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  #10  
Old 07-15-2011, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by AlchemyAcres View Post
It's best to stick with jars that are intended for canning.
Hogwash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlchemyAcres View Post
I know that many used to use quart mayonnaise jars, but, as you said, stuff is made cheaper now....there's too much time and effort required in canning to take chances on junky jars...and yes, processing times in relation to jar size are crucial to safe canning.
Any glass jar that accepts the 2 piece lid and ring is a perfectly acceptable canning jar. New or old.
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  #11  
Old 07-15-2011, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyobuckaroo View Post
Now what I know about canning is............................. squat.

So I gotta ask.
With all the products today that are coming out in "reduced size" containers, does that apply to glass jars also ? I would presume so.

If any of these jars are suitable to reuse for canning, do you have to adjust your process, recipe, anything else to be able to use them ?

Inquiring mind
Wyo
Processing times are for quarts, which is anything over a pint to a quart, and for pints, which is anything pint and smaller.
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  #12  
Old 07-15-2011, 01:15 PM
AlchemyAcres AlchemyAcres is offline
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Originally Posted by JarDude View Post
Hogwash.



Any glass jar that accepts the 2 piece lid and ring is a perfectly acceptable canning jar. New or old.

Just because the lid fits doesn't mean it's a good idea!

Is it unsafe? No! Probably not! As long as the jar doesn't break!

Do newer non-canning jars have a tendency to break? Some say they do.

Older quart mayo jars were as heavy as canning jars....that's not the case with a lot of the newer ones...not even close.

Heck, I just weighed an older Ball standard quart jar and and a newer Ball standard quart jar. They're nothing like they used to be.

Older Jar 442 grams
Newer Jar 395 grams

If I can find a newer mayo jar I'll weigh that.

So, I'll stick with my advice that it's best to use jars intended for canning.

To each his own!
It's your time and money!!!!


~Martin
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  #13  
Old 07-15-2011, 01:42 PM
AlchemyAcres AlchemyAcres is offline
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I was just thinking.
One extremely unsafe thing I've seen some people do is use non-canning jars that accept a lid but are wider and/or a bit larger than a standard quart canning jar.

Definitely NOT a good idea!!

To each his own!!!

~Martin
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  #14  
Old 07-15-2011, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlchemyAcres View Post
Just because the lid fits doesn't mean it's a good idea!
Nobody has yet to give a legitimate reason why it is not a good idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlchemyAcres View Post
Older quart mayo jars were as heavy as canning jars....that's not the case with a lot of the newer ones...not even close.
That is also the case with newer canning jars. Does that mean they are not safe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlchemyAcres View Post
So, I'll stick with my advice that it's best to use jars intended for canning.
Just because the advice has been given doesn't mean it is good advice.
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  #15  
Old 07-15-2011, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by AlchemyAcres View Post
I was just thinking.
One extremely unsafe thing I've seen some people do is use non-canning jars that accept a lid but are wider and/or a bit larger than a standard quart canning jar.

Definitely NOT a good idea!!

To each his own!!!

~Martin
Do tell why a quart jar that is wider would be unsafe?

And yes we hear everyday about people that died from using 34 oz jars.
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  #16  
Old 07-15-2011, 02:14 PM
AlchemyAcres AlchemyAcres is offline
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Do tell why a quart jar that is wider would be unsafe?

And yes we hear everyday about people that died from using 34 oz jars.
Safe and tested processing times are for jars that are a certain width.

It very well may not be unsafe, but I wouldn't take a chance on it....it's not worth it.

Especially for something not processed with a lot of liquid (raw pack meat).

Who knows if the heat has properly penetrated?


Okay, I found a Kraft glass quart mayo jar.....

Older Jar 442 grams
Newer Jar 395 grams
Mayo Jar 365 grams

Noticeably thinner and more than an ounce lighter than the newer canning jar.

Obviously thinner and 2 and 3/4 ounces lighter than the older Ball jar!!

Oh, and another thing I've seen idiots do is can in newer spaghetti sauce jars (that don't accept a canning lid) and reuse the used lids!!! Morons!!!

YMMV!

~Martin
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  #17  
Old 07-15-2011, 02:41 PM
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Blacksmith Blacksmith is offline
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It was explained to me that commercial food processors use as cheap a glass jar as is possible, that will contain their product, and seal using a one piece lid with sealing synthetics.

The commercial jar manufacturers do not deal with critical tolerences concerning the rim of the jar opening. It may be slightly wavy, mis-shapen, rough or thin. It is the material inside the one piece lid that is important for them to ensure a seal under mass quantity production.

The sealing material in a two piece lid appears to be made of material which is different, and is intended to be used on jars that are manufactured for home canning. It is my understanding the tolerances of the home canning jar are more precise, to ensure a better seal for longer shelf life.

Since we are not adding chemical preservatives as do the commmercial packers....this makes perfect sense to me.
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  #18  
Old 07-15-2011, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlchemyAcres View Post
Safe and tested processing times are for jars that are a certain width.
Prove it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlchemyAcres View Post
Morons!!!
It is rather rude.

One should look in the mirror before using such names.

ps. Jar weight doen't mean crap.
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  #19  
Old 07-15-2011, 03:06 PM
AlchemyAcres AlchemyAcres is offline
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Originally Posted by JarDude View Post
One should look in the mirror before using such names.
No need to, I am a MORON who happens to use safe canning procedures and good heavy canning jars that seal properly and don't break!!!



~Martin
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  #20  
Old 07-15-2011, 03:15 PM
AlchemyAcres AlchemyAcres is offline
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"It is recommended that mason-type jars designed for
home canning be used for preserving food by pressure or
boiling-water-bath canning. However, some commercial
pint and quart size mayonnaise or salad dressing jars may be
utilized for canning acid foods in a boiling-water canner
when new 2-piece lids are used. However, you should expect
more seal failures and jar breakage.

Commercial mayonnaise jars are weakened by repeated
contact with metal spoons or knives used in dispensing
mayonnaise. Seemingly insignificant scratches in the glass
jars may cause the jars to crack or break during boiling-
water canning. Commercial jars are not recommended for use
in pressure processing. It is recognized that some people
continue to can products successfully using commercial
mayonnaise jars with new 2-piece lids. However, use of
mason-type jars designed for use in home canning ensures a
safe product and break-free jars during processing.

Other commercial jars with mouths that cannot be
sealed with two piece canning lids are not recommended for
use in canning any foods at home."


http://web1.msue.msu.edu/imp/mod01/01600497.html

YMMV!!!!

~Martin
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