BHM's Homesteading & Self-Reliance Forum

Posting requires Registration and the use of Cookies-enabled browser


Go Back   BHM Forum > Self-Reliance & Preparedness > Financial > Jobs/Business/Investing

Jobs/Business/Investing Anything about earning money, investing, or other financial issue.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 11-11-2012, 02:09 PM
ScrubbieLady ScrubbieLady is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: North Mississippi
Posts: 1,201
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitehairedidiot View Post
I believe this akin to biting the hand that feeds you, isn't it?
You would think, wouldn't you but look at how the election went.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-11-2012, 03:26 PM
mountain man Male mountain man is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 44
Default

Grumble..We must be talking past each other. I am not heated. My point is if you can sell a product for a premium and pay your CEO 120 million per year while growning the largest cash reserve on the planet you can create some jobs in the US in the process. Maybe the CEO should not make as much? Maybe some of the excess cash can pay the workers in this country and support the standard of living that we have created. Many of these highly SKILLED workers you speak of have moved to the city from the countryside and can not afford to leave because they have a contract that pays them slave wages. This is not about SKILL it is about MONEY. Making as much as you can as quickly as you can, regardless of impact.

The starbucks example was to demonstrate some CEOs do recognize that running a corporation in this country can be about more than money.

If greed has totally taken over the corporations and the corporations have bought our government the only may out is for the consumer to only but products that meet their requirements to try to protect our futures.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-11-2012, 04:50 PM
grumble Male grumble is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: W NM, a rifle shot from the Great Divide
Posts: 2,640
Default

Okay. To the extent a company can remain competitive on the world market, the idea is good. Sure is hard to compete with $2 a day labor, though.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-11-2012, 07:51 PM
whitehairedidiot Female whitehairedidiot is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,523
Default

Quote:
If greed has totally taken over the corporations and the corporations have bought our government the only may out is for the consumer to only but products that meet their requirements to try to protect our futures.
Some consumers believe that only an iPhone meets their requirement to protect their future. Only $200 jeans will do. Obviously, those folks won't find those things all that helpful in SHTF - they'll be "cool", well-dressed refugees. But part of what sticks in my craw about our current "regime" is the tendency to tell other people what to believe and how to live. To the point even, of regulating what we're allowed to purchase to eat or drink!

If we're going to maintain even the ghost of being a free country, we have to really mean the words "to each his own"... and "live and let live". That means large corporations are allowed to pay their CEOs whatever the board thinks they're worth. The government doesn't sit on the board of every public/private company in the country.... and they SHOULDN'T, either.

If all the politicians are lazy, corrupt, lying sleazeballs... then why on earth, would we let them provide "instructions" to business about how to do business... much less, a set of values to live by - to us, our families and our children??

MountainMan - that's not directed at you personally. It's these ideas that are replicating faster than a daycare virus -- that's set me off.

/rant
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-11-2012, 10:05 PM
mountain man Male mountain man is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 44
Default

WHI,

Agree with everything you said with the once addition that once a company goes public they have to also run the company with the interest of the shareholds in mind.

My comments about consumer requirements were ment to show that the consumer has the ultimate power. If no one buys 20 pairs of cheap shoes from China but buys 2 expensive pairs from the US the shoe industry would change overnight.

Other nations are proud of their products like BMW, Mercedes, and a host of euro products by region.

We used to be this way but our leaders have told us that protectionism does not work because corporate leaders have told them what to believe.

We have the power as consumers but have given it away
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-12-2012, 07:48 AM
grumble Male grumble is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: W NM, a rifle shot from the Great Divide
Posts: 2,640
Default

And who can afford the Beemers and Mercedes? The average working person? Nope, those are ego products, just as French wines and Kobe beef are. That's why there are so many Hundais on the road, most folks can't afford the ego driven products. To compete, American products have to be of lesser quality than similar items produced with cheaper labor.

There's a good reason that business has determined that protectionism doesn't work -- because protectionism doesn't work. Not in a global market, and there's no way to get away from the global market now, just as it couldn't be done in 1800, or 599 BCE.

We can bemoan the fact that imports hurt domestic sales, but nothing will stop it. The only way to compete is to reduce prices to match, or use the cheap labor and materials available elsewhere. Or, of course, make the product so shabby that nobody wants to buy it.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-12-2012, 11:13 AM
whitehairedidiot Female whitehairedidiot is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,523
Default

This topic is getting deep. I'm instantly reminded of "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance".

Really and truly, I think the average American worker and company has the skills and the experience to fix this situation -- durably -- themselves. But that belief is qualified by a whole laundry list of "IFs".

Those "IFs" are like tripwires that will blow the whole company up if you accidentally run afoul of them. A lot of people lose jobs and their lives change, when the business blows up. Companies find themselves literally unable to move in any direction... and without being able to disable the tripwires either.

These "IFs" are imposed by the government, trying to tell business how to do business. The government hasn't tended their OWN business that well... why should anyone accept advice (or regulations) from them, about how to run their own affairs?

So my question is, who changed the situation? Who laid all the tripwires? And who gave them the right to tell business how to do business??

There are plenty of businesses out there, doing right by their employees & customers -- as much as they're allowed to; making a quality product; and making that product in the US. But you won't hear about them... because they don't advertise: they don't have to. New customers are referred by satisfied customers. Some are only local businesses; some are national; and some are even selling internationally... without being a huge, giant corporate monolith.

Those businesses are trying to find a way to do what they know how to do, despite the tripwires... but their "safe zone" is getting smaller & smaller all the time. Soon, they won't exist either.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-12-2012, 08:19 PM
mountain man Male mountain man is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 44
Default

We will always lose the race to be a cheaper product. A living wage and environmental protections will prevent this. We will only hit bottom on this approach when our wages are offset by higher shipping cost and wages globally. That is a long way to fall. The other option is to make the best product in the world (like the BMW example) and price it accordingly. Leaders today have chosen the race to the bottom. The only problem is they make many, many, many times the CEO's of their competitors. Look up global CEO pay worldwide. These people are just squeezing the last juice out of the system while it circles the drain.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-13-2012, 01:52 AM
Selena Selena is offline
Grand Master Pontificator
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,051
Default

But Wal-Mart has successfully brainwashed their customers into thinking they too should have a big screen TV, smart phone et al. Hence Wal-Mart squeezes their suppliers into making little, if anything, on a product so Wal-Mart can make money. Let me rephrase that, so Sam's kids and a handful of execs make money - those who actually work at wally make sh^t.
The drive for outsourcing wasn't staying competitive - basically lines the pockets of the upper echelon of the company. How much did a Barbie doll cost prior to moving mfg overseas? How much did a Barbie doll cost after moving mfg overseas - correct answer is the same price. Unless you are math illiterate, it isn't hard to figure out.

And to those who live in de Nile - no US corporation pays anywhere near the tax rate for corporations. But I will say that the party who keeps spewing the "tax cuts create jobs" line is most likely going the way of the Whigs. When said party only gets 11% of non-Caucasian vote, they ain't long for this world.
__________________
If only women voted, the Democratic party would win by 458 electoral votes to 80.
If only non-whites voted, the Democratic party would win every state in the union.
If only Millennials voted, the Democratic party would win over 400 electoral votes in a landslide.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-13-2012, 12:00 PM
mountain man Male mountain man is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 44
Default

http://www.heritageinstitute.com/gov...mpensation.htm

Check out these old CEO vs worker pay global numbers. It has gotten worse. Would someone interested in the health and longevity of the company really divert this much money from the bottom line to their pockets?
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 11-13-2012, 12:02 PM
mountain man Male mountain man is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 44
Default

Country Year 2000 CEO compensation as a multiple of average employee compensation*
US 531
Brazil 57
Venezuela 54
South Africa 51
Argentina 48
Malaysia 47
Mexico 45
Hong Kong 38
Singapore37
Britain 25
Thailand 23
Australia 22
Netherlands 22
Canada 21
China (Shanghai )21
Belgium 19
Italy 19
Spain18
New Zealand 16
France16
Taiwan15
Sweden14
Germany 11
South Korea11
Switzerland 11
Japan10
Source: Towers Perrin & Finfacts
(*Employee compensation used to calculate these averages were those working in industrial companies with about $500 million in annual sales.)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -2. The time now is 04:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 1996 to Present. Backwoods Home Magazine, Inc.