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Old 01-29-2013, 06:08 PM
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Exclamation LED Lighting concerns

I've been on a couple of other message boards discussing LED lighting.
The topic of EMI/RFI came up concerning LEDs.

LED = Light Emitting Diodes. ( You know that unless you've been without electricity forever)
EMI = Electro-Magnetic Interference
RFI = Radio Frequency Interference

Some (MANY) of the new LEDs are producing a LOT of energy in other ways that we DON'T want.

From the eHam board:

" The LED lights to watch out for are these. If you get one of these near your ham radio days are over from 1.7 to almost 150mhz. These are legal 10 to 50 watt broad spectrum jammers.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10W-LED-Floo...item19c83bdaea

They sold by various ebay sellers and as re branded versions in stores. They have no EMC compliance whatsoever. This is a disaster for the broadcast and ham bands and they just flowing
into countries around the world from China.
Its astonishing that such a product can be legal to sell anywhere when it causes so much interference. ....."

"These LED lights are worst than things like plasma TV's and on a band like 80 meters where signals are very strong you wont hear a thing. If you were a fascist regime or a dictatorship like North Korea and you want to jam as much of the HF spectrum on a budget you would install this type of LED light. If you see these around please report them to your radio society EMC committee, you will hear them! "

So if you are out shopping for LED lighting, better check with a radio and see if it is putting out more than light.

"Well the closer my FD radio, or FM radio is to the LED light, the worse the static. Seems to be radiating right from the light itself... "

Last edited by DavidOH; 01-29-2013 at 07:41 PM. Reason: Updated the eBay link to a current item.
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:26 PM
hunter88 hunter88 is offline
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I wonder how this will affect computers and the data stored on those computers.

With the quartz halogen lights being banned many retail stores that liked to use quartz halogen floods to display their merchandise may well switch to LED floods. I just stopped at a clothing store today that liked using halogen floods and he now uses LED floods.

With a store full of these you wonder what affect they will have on radios, phones, cell phones, cash registers, computers, or other electrical equipment.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
and you want to jam as much of the HF spectrum on a budget you would install this type of LED light.
LOL... believe it - I was just wondering how one could do this, the other day. On the other hand, since I've finally got some time to start on my "shack"... I'll be picky about the lighting now!

Thanks!
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:42 PM
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I wonder how this will affect computers and the data stored on those computers.

With the quartz halogen lights being banned many retail stores that liked to use quartz halogen floods to display their merchandise may well switch to LED floods. I just stopped at a clothing store today that liked using halogen floods and he now uses LED floods.

With a store full of these you wonder what affect they will have on radios, phones, cell phones, cash registers, computers, or other electrical equipment.
Now that you mention, then what affect will these interferences have with credit card scanning? Not that they may not scan, but perhaps change the total being charged. Ouch!!
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:22 PM
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I also read some security systems may be affected.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:25 PM
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Recommended:
" Quiet bulbs were from GLB (used to be @ Cyberguys) and Miracle Bulb. The Miracle bulbs are stroboscopic like fluorescent bulbs, so 100% use of them cannot be recommended for families with members that are sensitive to flashing strobes. "

I believe the ones he is referring to are made by Aluratek. They are available on eBay as well.
http://www.cyberguys.com/product-lis...categoryid=572

Color chart:
http://www.theledlight.com/color_chart.html

I still say eliminate this problem by powering them from a low voltage DC source. One that does not produce the RFI/EMI
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:24 AM
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I installed an ElCheepo string of 100 solar powered LED's on my porch. I put the power pod (The part with the little solar panel and the holder for the battery and stuff..) outside on the edge of my roof so it could charge during the day and come on at night. (Just for a little mood lighting.. ) I also have an FM broadcast band radio installed for jams on the porch. Those lights wiped-out the radio totally! I had to remove them so my radio would work again! It didn't matter what channel that I was trying to tune in. Everything just buzzed..

Even the small ones cause interference! (Like the ones from the Dollar Store with the little lawn stakes) They use funky little switching power supplies to fire the LED's. It's not simple current..

This is how they do it with only 1 - 1.2v battery.. (This circuit is putting RFI out at ~6 megahertz..) The battery alone doesn't have enough voltage to fire the LED..

A simple illustration..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlOwf6KnkhY
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:40 AM
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They say that cel phones are harmful to our health. What about these lights?

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Old 01-31-2013, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
They say that cel phones are harmful to our health.
I've heard one of the first signs of that is when you start dropping Ls from your words.

At east that's what they tel me.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:09 PM
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Tune your car radio to the AM band the next time you pull up to an intersection that uses those new LED's in the traffic lights. Wait until the lights change.. You'll hear it..
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by hunter88 View Post
I've heard one of the first signs of that is when you start dropping Ls from your words.

At east that's what they tel me.
Ouch, now I am doomed. I am now ost. Oops, lost.
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Old 02-03-2013, 06:23 PM
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Tune your car radio to the AM band the next time you pull up to an intersection that uses those new LED's in the traffic lights. Wait until the lights change.. You'll hear it..
I always have issues with my AM radio for certain stations that are local when in the car. Most is interference when I am too close to the power lines on the road. Not sure I can relate it to LED traffic lights as all the signals do it and anytime I am under a power line.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:24 AM
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Default LEDs

If you think the interference is bad on the AM or FM bands, you should try to find a spot to tune in the old Crystal Radio! I have a DX log of stations from all over I have picked up, mostly at night. I still like to try to find a new signal, or identify an old one.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:24 PM
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I was discussing this today with the maintenance guys at one of my accounts, a hospital.

After talking about it a couple of the guys looked at each other as if they knew something. Turns out a couple weeks ago they put LED lights in the MRI room, and the lights screwed things up. They had to take the lights out and they said it took a guy 2 hours to reprogram the machines so they would work right again.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:46 AM
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it took a guy 2 hours to reprogram the machines so they would work right again.
Ouch! That's an expensive light bulb change!
Just wait till the fed gov mandates everyone use them!
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Ouch! That's an expensive light bulb change!
I sell them lights, so I told them if they would have talked to their friendly light bulb salesman before hand I just might have saved them all that time and expense. They assured me from this point forward they'd check in with me before doing any major changes.

Now as long as they don't figure out I learned about this about a week after they installed the lights I'll be fine.
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Old 02-12-2013, 05:12 PM
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I spoke with another customer today about LEDs and this problem. She is at a small county museum. She said they have an area where people can sit with their laptops or tablets and go on line. The wall beside this area has some LED lights used to accent some decorations. She said from time to time people will complain their computer will not work in that area. It's not something that happens all the time, but it does happen on occassion. Not sure if this is LED related, but could be.
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Old 02-13-2013, 03:49 PM
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Default led running off battery

Are you talking about led lighting that uses switching power supply?

Do led running off battery and resistors give you FRI?

I know all switching power supply are bad for RFI.

Bill
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:42 PM
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Lightbulb Shedding a little more light on the subject!

From the eHam forum:

" LED lights donít emit any RFI. It is the power supply that is pulse modulating the LED that is generating the radio interference. A led light has a narrow window going from dark to full brilliance. By pulse modulation and varying the plus width the average brilliance can be efficiently varied. I(f) an effort to provide the most efficient light the pulse shape is very square which generates lots of RFI due to its fast rise time.

Probably most of the RFI is being radiated in the house wiring. You might try some snap on RF beads where the wiring goes into the light socket."
K6AER


" I guess this needs to be restated and reinforced. "An LED does not emit any form of RFI". If you ran your house off of DC power you would have absolutely zero EMI/RFI from lighting.

Any problems you are having are caused by lousy designs in the power conversion circuitry to bring 120 VAC down to DC voltage levels or in some pulse modulation schemes to do things other than running an LED off of a pure DC voltage.

If you bought a box of LED's and current limiting resistors and wanted to string them together as LED lighting you would have one of the electrically quietest forms of illumination possible other than a heated filament bulb but many times more efficient.

Companies that design in el-cheapo power supplies and conversion schemes should "be beaten with sticks". " AA4HA
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:33 PM
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"If you ran your house off of DC power you would have absolutely zero EMI/RFI from lighting."

Not totally true. If the current is limited with a resistor network, then I would agree. But, as I stated above, I have a string of 60 LED's that are solar powered and they tore the crap out of my FM receiver! They are D.C but use a switching type power supply and emit all kinds of crap! Even those Dollar Store lawn lights with only one battery pump it out too!

Most white LED's require ~3 volts to work. (3.2/3.6v. @ ~ .030mA.) Those little lawn lights have a single 1.2 volt (Sub "AA") rechargable battery in them. The battery alone doesn't have enough voltage to light the LED. Each light is a little noise generator.. And they operate on D.C..

Hold an AM radio near one tuned between channels. Cover the top of the light so it will come on and tell me what you hear..
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