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Philosophy Any non-religious philosophical discussions.

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Old 02-21-2013, 02:05 AM
macgeoghagen macgeoghagen is offline
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Default What is a citizen?

Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state. -Thomas Jefferson

It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a Free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even of his personal services to the defense of it. -George Washington

I begin to feel like most Americans don't understand the First Amendment, don't understand the idea of freedom of speech, and don't understand that it's the responsibility of the citizen to speak out. -Roger Ebert

Citizenship is a tough occupation which obliges the citizen to make his own informed opinion and stand by it. -Martha Gellhorn

Dishonesty in government is the business of every citizen. It is not enough to do your own job. There's no particular virtue in that. Democracy isn't a gift. It's a responsibility. -Dalton Trumbo

Such a term as citizen, while understood by many, is misunderstood by many more, and is scarcely thought about by the majority of people. The future philosopher will need a clear understanding of what a citizen is and how the true definition differs from the perversion that is today's "citizenship".

A: in societies past, what was a citizen? how did a citizen differ from a subject?

B: what is a citizen in the US, now. How does one become a citizen? Is that a just method? Is the US citizen of today a citizen or a subject, or a mere resident?

C: How should a future society define citizen, and how would an individual become a citizen, what privileges should a citizen demand of his society, what duties should be expected of the citizen to his society?
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:53 AM
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offgridbob Male offgridbob is offline
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I have never believed that a citizen can be just by memorizing a few facts and taking an oath. An oath should mean something but today an oath is just words. a true citizen will give up his life to defend his country and will do what it takes to make certain that we adhere to the Constitution that declared our independence and gave us the freedoms we enjoy.
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:50 AM
whitehairedidiot Female whitehairedidiot is offline
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...p1BxKsuAs#t=0s

I hope this link works.

Here's another:

http://www.larkenrose.com/video/2055-the-tiny-dot.html

Sad, that the original definition of "citizen" must be put into such simple terms... especially as the concept is so simple intellectually. But it's the only way to break through the conditioning of accepting authority, blending in, tolerating -- things which go against basic core moral beliefs, and while it can also be considered propaganda...

I think there needs to be more it.

Last edited by whitehairedidiot; 02-23-2013 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:06 PM
macgeoghagen macgeoghagen is offline
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I have read what I could on the subject. Do not dismiss the idea of citizenship as simple so quickly.

There are certain rights that are basic human rights. There are also a set of legal rights that are the rights of citizens. The right to vote in elections or to hold a public office are two. Further, there are legal rights which are extended to some citizens and not others, such as the right to vote being restricted to adults.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:04 PM
whitehairedidiot Female whitehairedidiot is offline
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I don't want to make it simple, Mac. I'm just saying that the explanation must be simplified for the masses to care about it, to understand the importance of it. Would that I was underestimating those masses.

Here's a question that's bugged me for a long time... the "right to vote" has been, up till now, considered voluntary. A person can choose to not vote... I don't think my mom has voted at all - ever - in her 80 years. And that is seen as a form of freedom.

Why isn't it considered a citizen's duty to vote? To participate actively - at least in this one respect - in the governance process? Do people who do not vote, withdraw their consent to be governed... or are they simply accepting no responsibility, duty, or concern about HOW they're governed - in effect, accepting whatever comes down from on high?

Is that something that's open to easy fraud and abuse? Could there ever really be a "none of the above" option on the ballots? Why isn't there a holy-hell uproar in the media about the woman in Cincinnati who bragged on tv about voting 6 times, and that she'd gladly do it again? Where is the charge against her for election fraud?????

Or have we reached the stage where the law itself is subject to "moral relativism"? Where the law only applies within certain conditions, circumstances, to people... as decided by TPTB... differently, on different days? [Sorry - different topic - but it's all tied together for me - different compositional elements in the single landscape painting.]

I'll stifle, now.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:36 AM
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Yes to every thing you said but for those who think they can't be governed if they don't vote are sadly mistaken. It's interesting that your mom has never voted because her generation mostly believed it was necessary and a privilege to vote
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Old 03-16-2013, 02:13 AM
macgeoghagen macgeoghagen is offline
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What is a subject? How is that different from being a citizen?
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Old 03-30-2013, 06:14 AM
Kachad Male Kachad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macgeoghagen View Post
What is a subject? How is that different from being a citizen?
I might take a stab at this.

Subject: A person who unwillingly (had to check to make sure thats a word) subjects himself to the demands placed upon him by the ruling elite. Has no say in the governance of either his immediate or national community. Accepts rule without questioning or acting.

Citizen: A person who either has faith in those that govern him, or if he\she disagrees, is willing to become active in the process to improve it. Lives in a society\community that enables him\her to take such actions to improve not only his lot in life, but also those around him.

I believe that our current "Federal Government" objectives are to drive as many people from being Citizens to Subjects. I don't limit this to the Obama years, but really to all of the recent Regimes.

I don't think that "State Governments" are that much better.

Our local government is still suspect, but at least they are focused on community health and less inclined to be corrupt. I think that local government is also easier to become involved in, without interference from groups that essentially seek to manipulate politicians and corrupting them.

OK, I still think that the local PTA and Council members are more or less control freaks that push their own agenda, i.e., Nazi Soccer Moms and miniature Machiavillian Monarchs ---- but at least they stand on their own without outside intervention.

Last edited by Kachad; 03-30-2013 at 10:37 PM.
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