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Philosophy Any non-religious philosophical discussions.

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  #21  
Old 07-09-2013, 11:52 PM
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If we are just looking at science I would say no we are not animals
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  #22  
Old 07-10-2013, 04:07 AM
Merchant Seaman Male Merchant Seaman is offline
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If we are just looking at science I would say no we are not animals

Care to elaborate?
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  #23  
Old 07-10-2013, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
If humans are primates, does a creationist believing person not accept this?
The question asked was:

Are humans, primates?

My answer is a firm, no.

As a Believer and Follower of Christ, I am Created in the Image of God.
And God, is not a primate.
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  #24  
Old 07-10-2013, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laura View Post
The question asked was:

Are humans, primates?

My answer is a firm, no.

As a Believer and Follower of Christ, I am Created in the Image of God.
And God, is not a primate.
Agreed. However, why would God confuse us in this matter by making humans so similar to the primates? (sharing 98% of DNA, etc.)
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  #25  
Old 07-10-2013, 12:13 PM
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Agreed. However, why would God confuse us in this matter by making humans so similar to the primates? (sharing 98% of DNA, etc.)
God is not the author of confusion, satan is.
And if we, as Believers, do not have Faith that He is Truthful in that 2%, then we have no Faith, at all.
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  #26  
Old 07-10-2013, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Laura View Post
God is not the author of confusion, satan is.
And if we, as Believers, do not have Faith that He is Truthful in that 2%, then we have no Faith, at all.
Do you believe that all of Genesis is to be taken literally?
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  #27  
Old 07-10-2013, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Laura View Post
God is not the author of confusion, satan is.
And if we, as Believers, do not have Faith that He is Truthful in that 2%, then we have no Faith, at all.
So, with this line of thought, Satan caused the other primates to share 98% of human DNA. So, he is responsible for trying to confuse the matter?
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  #28  
Old 07-11-2013, 12:02 AM
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No, that would be wrong also but questions like you are asking are not in line with a philosophy. They are however inline with ones faith/belief in God or no faith which then should be moved over to the religion section.
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  #29  
Old 07-11-2013, 12:20 AM
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Do you believe that all of Genesis is to be taken literally?
I believe that most of Genesis is literal As far as the timing there is some conjecture because God uses weeks of years like the length of the tribulation. The bottom line for me is God can do anything he wants. The pot never tells the potter what to do. And I like it that way, it takes the confusion out of me trying to second guess God. When I have tried that I loose every time. And to answer the question about Satan, he has no power to do anything except when he asks God like in the case of Job. Any other questions like this I will be glad to answer in the Religion section
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  #30  
Old 07-11-2013, 02:00 AM
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Do you believe that all of Genesis is to be taken literally?
Yes sir!
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  #31  
Old 07-11-2013, 04:12 AM
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Yes sir!
How can you be sure that it wasn't intended as metaphorical poetry to convey a message the broadest possible audience?
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  #32  
Old 07-11-2013, 11:16 AM
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How can you be sure that it wasn't intended as metaphorical poetry to convey a message the broadest possible audience?
Knowing Hebrew sheds amazing light on Genesis.
The Holy Spirit was send to guide Believers.
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  #33  
Old 07-12-2013, 01:06 PM
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Out of morbid curiosity, Lurch...

Was the original question misstated a bit? Was it meant to be "Is God human?"

Or perhaps "Are humans God?"

Sometimes humans act like they are all-knowing and all-powerful, seems to me. Wish 333 was involved in this discussion as he has insights from a different viewpoint that I'd like to hear, but, guess he has other fish to fry.

Hmmmm.... it may just be a colloquialism but going fishing does sound good to me. Lake water making its background conversation, wind cooling the brow, the big tree at water's edge whispering back to the water, and me sitting there just enjoying the 90 degrees in the shade while sharing my nuked weenies with any fish dumb enough to think the offer is legit... lol

John
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  #34  
Old 07-12-2013, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by billygoatgruff View Post
Out of morbid curiosity, Lurch...

Was the original question misstated a bit? Was it meant to be "Is God human?"

Or perhaps "Are humans God?"

Sometimes humans act like they are all-knowing and all-powerful, seems to me. Wish 333 was involved in this discussion as he has insights from a different viewpoint that I'd like to hear, but, guess he has other fish to fry.

Hmmmm.... it may just be a colloquialism but going fishing does sound good to me. Lake water making its background conversation, wind cooling the brow, the big tree at water's edge whispering back to the water, and me sitting there just enjoying the 90 degrees in the shade while sharing my nuked weenies with any fish dumb enough to think the offer is legit... lol

John
I'm not sure why any discussion of a deity is needed here, the original question "are humans primates" can be answered yes or no with any reference to a deity, a person could answer "yes humans are primates because God created them that way"

FTR. Zoologically humans are indeed primates, they are also mammals and chordates, but nothing in that statement in any way effects religion (well with the exception of scientology which believes humans are aliens planted on earth by other aliens).

I've never understood why a literal interpretation of Genesis is necessary for belief in God, The Catholic Church has long said modern cosmology and biology are perfectly compatible with the Bible, as do most Jews
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  #35  
Old 07-15-2013, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Laura View Post
God is not the author of confusion, satan is.
And if we, as Believers, do not have Faith that He is Truthful in that 2%, then we have no Faith, at all.
Amen, Amen, Amen, God is not the author of confusion.

Sorry, took me so long to read and weigh in on this. Ugh, What I've been missing.

As to the OP. I had to go back and read the definition again of "primate". NO, we are not.

According to the definition of a mammal, yes we would be mammals in that we have hair, warm blood, feed our young milk, but that does not make us animals. Man has a soul which makes him different from animals.

Should it be surprising that different living things would have similar genes? After all, we're all living aren't we?

I can whistle, does that make me a bird? A good look at creation shows us exactly what the Bible says, God is not the author of confusion. Nature is orderly. One need only look at genes and DNA to see how orderly things are.

One of the posts brought up about scientific theories and a certain amount of faith for what can not be proven. Absolutely. The evolutionist will jump all over a creationist for being "unscientific" and "accepting things by faith" when they do the same thing. Evolution is actually a religious or at least philosopical belief. (Please excuse my spelling if I mess up, my spelling skills have not evolved completely yet. )

To me it is a real leap of faith to believe in as one poster said, from the goo to the zoo to you. That is that a complex organism such as we are came from the most simple cell and somehow through mutations and millions of mutations and accidents, became what we are today. You see that theory is that accident upon countless accident created bodies that are wonderfully made. Does that make sense?

We had a child that was born with a genetic defect, flaw, or accident if you please. She did not become some missing link to evolving to some "higher form". She died. This in nature is what we see happening all the time. Mutations don't generally go in the opposite direction but lead to devolution if you please, not evolution. Our entire world is spiraling downward not upward.

I believe the Genesis account of creation and that man is made in God's image (I could give you a whole sermon on that one but won't right now) because it's the theory if you want to call it that, which makes the most sense. It makes much more sense just from looking at nature to say that the world was created by a divine creator who made each living thing just as perfect and orderly as it is than to take the blind leading the blind, blind faith approach that natures wonderful order somehow came out of chaos.

Do I believe, Seaman, that Genesis is to be taken literally. Absolutely. It is the only way to take it and the only way that can make sense.

To say that God made the world by the evolutionary process and that the six days of creation are not literal 24 hour days but eons of time can make no sense at all. Why? Because you're trying to mix false religion with true. The false religion of Darwinian evolution which has no proof with the word of God is mixing darkness with light, error with truth, chaos with order.

God is not the author of confusion. He did exactly as he told us he did. In fact, if you look at the Genesis account, the only way it makes sense is 24 hour days. The first three verses tell us the first day God created time. Evening and morning. Jewish reference, day begins at sundown yet there was not sun yet. HMMMMM God's telling us, people, first he made time. The 24 hour day , evening and morning, was made before the sun, moon and stars.

The plants were made before the sun. The only way it makes sense is a 24 hour day, otherwise there could be no plants for millions of years without sunlight.

Jesus preached from the book of Genesis more than any other book. Obviously he believed it to be literally true. I am ever amused by theologians I've run into who think Genesis should not be taken literally, but then they say they believe in Jesus.

The Bible is not a smorgasbord to pick and choose what we like and don't like. I'll take some of this, but I don't quite understand that, so I'll leave that out. No, it is either all true, or it is all a lie.

I believe it is all true. It's the belief , faith, philosopy, call it what you want, but it makes the most sense.

The best scientists of their day thought the world was flat. Columbus knew the scriptures. Is. 40:22 says so.

The water cycle is a very important and basic concept of Science. I teach it in elementary school. That concept was in the Bible thousands of years ago, Eccles. 1:7

Not too long ago, scientists announced what I've always said, there are not different races, just one, the human race, that we all descend from a common ancestor. Well, duh. It took them a while to discover yet they've proven the Bible true, when it said this very thing about 2000 years ago in Acts 17:26..

FIrst Cor. 14 is right when it says God is not the author of confusion. He made an orderly universe. I believe God made each thing as it is and "it was good" as Genesis says. There's no "missing link" between one life form and another, from one species to another. In all these years since the Darwinian theory (I call it lie) was introduced and believed by faith, no one has found these "links". How come? Because they never existed and so yes, Genesis is to be taken literally that God created things as He did in six literal days and rested the seventh.

Romans 3:4 "let God be true, but every man a liar" Don't take my word for it, take His.

Peace and blessings,
Oldtimer
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  #36  
Old 07-15-2013, 06:29 PM
Merchant Seaman Male Merchant Seaman is offline
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Modern scientific thought is that humans are indeed primates, of the family Hominidae, here are some references to that.


http://humanorigins.si.edu/resources...are-primates-0

http://anthro.palomar.edu/primate/prim_8.htm

http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/homi...mans-primates/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hominidae\


but this doesn't in and of itself preclude any religious thought, here are some references for that


http://www.catholic.com/tracts/adam-eve-and-evolution

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholi..._and_evolution

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...evolution.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_views_on_evolution

http://www.reasons.org/about/who-we-are/hugh-ross


Any person is free accept or reject any or all of the above of course, but I reject the notion that a person could not be religious, or Christian if they don't accept a literal interpretation of Genesis.
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  #37  
Old 07-15-2013, 11:17 PM
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Religion involves belief without proof (ie- "faith").
Science involves belief only if there is proof.

When a religious person enters a discussion of a scientific nature they either must suspend their belief or stay out of the discussion. To offer "proof" of your religion is to deny your faith, therefore, you automatically lose.

The Catholic Church settles the apparent discrepancy between fundamentalism and science by declaring that God is Author of all things natural and modern science describes how He accomplishes it: no discrepancy at all.
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  #38  
Old 07-16-2013, 01:48 AM
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Religion involves belief without proof (ie- "faith").
Science involves belief only if there is proof.

When a religious person enters a discussion of a scientific nature they either must suspend their belief or stay out of the discussion. To offer "proof" of your religion is to deny your faith, therefore, you automatically lose.

The Catholic Church settles the apparent discrepancy between fundamentalism and science by declaring that God is Author of all things natural and modern science describes how He accomplishes it: no discrepancy at all.
The evolutionist claims that their belief is not religious, yet by your very definition it is not scientific. For something to be truly "scientific" it must be observable. Evolution has not been observed anywhere, therefore it is but theory and has not been observed as fact. Fact can be observed to be so.

Who was there?

I teach in a multilevel classroom and one day we were talking about this. I had a small second grader who was listening to the 7th and 8th grade science lesson and he raised his hand. "MR. OT, " he said, "There was someone there to see what happened and he told us all about it."

"There was?" I asked. "Who?"

"Why God was there," he innocently replied. "And He told us all about it in the First book of Moses."

This little fellow seemed to have it a lot more together than many college educated people.
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  #39  
Old 07-16-2013, 04:23 AM
Merchant Seaman Male Merchant Seaman is offline
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A lot of things can be inferred with being directly observed, the entire science of quantum physics is one good example, and gravity for that matter has never been directly observed, only its effects, but neither gravity waves nor a graviton have ever been observed, likewise the two hundred or so extra solar planets have not been directly observed

But FTR evolution has been observed in nature, most strongly among species that reproduce rapidly (generation in hour instead of years)

I don't pretend to know the mind of God, and I accept that an all-knowing being is outside any human construct, it's not for me to tell God how he did things, and no mortal man could possibly comprehend the mind of God
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Old 07-16-2013, 02:44 PM
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A lot of things can be inferred with being directly observed, the entire science of quantum physics is one good example, and gravity for that matter has never been directly observed, only its effects, but neither gravity waves nor a graviton have ever been observed, likewise the two hundred or so extra solar planets have not been directly observed

But FTR evolution has been observed in nature, most strongly among species that reproduce rapidly (generation in hour instead of years)

I don't pretend to know the mind of God, and I accept that an all-knowing being is outside any human construct, it's not for me to tell God how he did things, and no mortal man could possibly comprehend the mind of God

I note your last paragraph, when you state that God is outside your own human construction, would you want Him to be otherwise? If He were, He's not the God but a god.

You say, "It's not for me to tell God how he did things," but when you choose to believe and defend the theories of Darwin, you are doing just that, instead of believing what God said as my small student told me years ago.

Yes, no mortal man can comprehend the mind of God, but fortunate for us, He has left us His word.

The trouble arrives when we try to do as catholocism and so many liberal protestants have done in trying to make a marriage of the two.

The Bible says: "Can two walk together if they are not agreed? What fellowship hath light with darkness? . .. . Let God be true . .."
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