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Philosophy Any non-religious philosophical discussions.

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  #61  
Old 03-12-2014, 12:55 AM
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I understand the flaw in the meme. It is still a legitimate question to ask, however flawed the implications of the meme are.

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Originally Posted by Bearfootfarm View Post
The flaw in that graphic is youre ignoring the fact that there were genetic changes that occurred.
Has there ever been a change to genetic material where information that wasn't already there, but was added, observed in research?

I imagine that an easy test would be to grow yeast in the exact same conditions with the exact same food and randomly test it forever to look for genetic change. But has that happened? It would be easy with yeast or bacteria because a generation can be minutes rather than having to wait years.

I don't know the answer, so if you or anyone here knows I would like to read the research.

The mutations in genetic code that I know of is always harmful rather than beneficial. It is damage to the existing code, not added information.
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  #62  
Old 03-12-2014, 03:06 AM
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The mutations in genetic code that I know of is always harmful rather than beneficial. It is damage to the existing code, not added information.
That's all semantics
The change is what matters

Saying it's "always harmful" just shows your lack of knowledge

The genetic changes that gave modern humans larger brains and opposing thumbs made all the difference in the world

The results have been observed many times as species have adapted to changing habitats in order to survive.

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. It is still a legitimate question to ask
No, it's not, since you have to ignore reality to even consider asking it.
Evolution isn't something you'll often observe first hand in one human's short lifespan, unless you stick to studying things such as viruses and bacteria, but the results of it are quite obvious


It's a lot like asking why aren't there still Saber Toothed cats when there are Lions and Tigers

Species change, and the best adaptations tend to survive as older species die off
Changes don't have to be from "mutations"

Selective breeding can change genetic traits and changes everything about an animal, which is another form of evolution, which simply means "change"

Last edited by Bearfootfarm; 03-12-2014 at 03:12 AM.
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  #63  
Old 03-13-2014, 01:19 AM
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If you believe one can evolve up can the same be said of evolving down. I believe one of the laws of thermal dynamics states that all material will decay in time.( Paraphrase)
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  #64  
Old 03-13-2014, 06:57 AM
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If you believe one can evolve up can the same be said of evolving down.
Evolutionary changes that don't benefit the species either have no effect, or those with the traits die off

Most of the lifeforms that evolved are already extinct or drastically changed from the original species
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  #65  
Old 03-13-2014, 03:29 PM
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according to my source so goes Mankind as we know it now and will evolve into a far better being in the blink of an eye. If you can grasp the concept of time and space, our puny little existence here on this decaying earth is but a grain of sand in all the sand of this earth and other planets. But first you have to grasp what eternity is.
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  #66  
Old 03-28-2014, 08:45 PM
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These discussions are always fun...

The answer to the original question, is yes, we are primates.

Saying that we evolved from Monkeys, however, is pure insanity.

Monkeys, Humans, and other primates share a common ancestor. There is no missing link between Monkeys and Humans. There are only missing links between that common ancestor and modern species.

While we have some pieces to the puzzle, we only have a tiny fragment of the chain of evolution from the very first bit of life to the 8.7 million different species that live on earth today, and yes, I believe that every life form today is descended from the same source.

Is there room for God in here? Sure there is, how do we know the mind of God? How do we know if the Earth isn't just one giant petri dish for God to conduct His biological experiments in? How do we know that God didn't take millions of years (periods of time translated as a 'days') before His greatest creation came to life?

The short answer, is we don't, and we won't until we're standing before God and have the opportunity to ask Him ourselves.

Take it on faith that there is so much you do not know and that God does know. If God chooses, He will share that knowledge with you some day, on earth or in heaven, as is His will.

What happens when you stand before God and ask "Lord, are we descended from Monkeys?" and God replies "Son, I created all life on earth, all was descended from Me." It may or may not happen like that, but if it does, won't you feel like a fool?

We cannot know the literal truth behind the Bible, as it was written by imperfect men with an imperfect understanding of the world around them, then it was translated from one imperfect language into other imperfect languages by more imperfect men before it was taught by other imperfect men to the imperfect masses. There is much room for imperfection in how we perceive God's Perfect Word.

Reminds of of a joke:

A man was standing on is roof after a flood. Another man in a canoe came along and offered him a ride to safety. The man said 'No thank you, I'm praying to God to save me.' A while later, another man in a motor boat came by and offered the man a ride. Again the man refused, saying that God will provide. Later that day, a helicopter came by, and again the man refused a ride, believing that God would save him. The next morning, the man found himself standing before God. He cried, Lord, have I not been faithful? How could you let me die like that? God said to the man "Son, I sent you two boats and a helicopter, why did you not accept the salvation I provided?"
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  #67  
Old 03-29-2014, 10:45 PM
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Although I don't agree with all you said, I like the part about standing before and asking if we are decedents of monkeys. I believe his answer will be "You are now"
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  #68  
Old 04-07-2014, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by offgridbob View Post
Although I don't agree with all you said, I like the part about standing before and asking if we are decedents of monkeys. I believe his answer will be "You are now"
Sooner or later we will all be "decedents". The question I believe you wanted was are we DESCENDANTS of monkeys and I would be willing to venture a guess and say, NO. There are plenty of reasons for my answer but rather than become embroiled in a discussion others may NOT wish to read, I'll just back away at that.
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  #69  
Old 04-25-2014, 01:15 AM
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Well I'm going to step out on a limb and say I believe that we are not attached to this physical world. I believe we are spirit/souls (immortal) who are experiencing the physical world to learn and grow and yes we do have "free will" while we are here, so yes, I believe in reincarnation. Like the old saying " Just sit down, shut up and enjoy the ride" .
I have talked with friends who had a "near death experience", hard core skeptics, and it completely changed their outlook on life. I also have had one near death experience and it is not fun re-entering the old body, but it happens, FAST. I did believe in life after earth before my experience with death. Do I worry about dying, NO. Earth is called the world of suffering, it's a tough place to experience but we return home with unbelievable knowledge . It is wonderful when you leave the physical body, no weight, no pain, no worries, a world of pure peace and love .



Yes I believe in God, but maybe not the pictures of the one who looks like Santa with gold hair, sitting on a throne .
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  #70  
Old 04-25-2014, 01:46 AM
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An interesting post and since you believe in God , do you also believe in Jesus? In the belief of reincarnation who makes the decision of what you come back as? What type of proof is there about reincarnation?
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  #71  
Old 04-25-2014, 02:10 PM
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I believe there is more to the story of Jesus than we know or written. There are beliefs that several books were excluded from the bible, some indicating that Jesus believed in reincarnation (?) . I do not believe everything in the bible, just because people say, "if it's in the bible it is TRUE" . A lot of what we are taught are family traditions (religions) and what region you were born .

I don't look at God in a physical form. I believe our goal is to become God like (not God) look within, meaning your spirit, conscious . Are there people on this earth without a conscious ? Probably so, apparently they can't comprehend right from wrong, extreme narcissism.

These are my beliefs and I do not push them on anyone, I always attempt to think out of the box . I have friends from many religions, Christian, Jewish, Muslims, Buddhist, etc. One friend who is Buddhist is also Catholic, go figure . I also have atheist friends . I do believe, what every path we take during "Earth school", we will all return to the same home, Heaven or what ever name you give it.









(I'm trying to type this message with my 6 yr. old granddaughter pulling on my right arm, "pawpaw I want some more ice cream !!!")

We determine when and where we return and are given several life choices to choose from .
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  #72  
Old 04-26-2014, 02:09 AM
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So you choose when and where and a number of choices as what you come back as. Is this something that comes with directions Like my bible or is it something that just comes to you from an unknown source. I have always been curious about people who believe this way because it is directly opposed what the bible says. Do you believe there is only one God?
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  #73  
Old 04-26-2014, 01:37 PM
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Yes, one God. Yes, similar as directions from the bible, but without worldly ego . Again this is my beliefs, probably since youth.

I attended catholic schools, married in the catholic church when I was 18 yrs. of age. I never cared for the catholic church, maybe because of the nuns (lol), the priest were good, no I was not an alter boy. After marriage, my wife and I began a search with other Christian religions, Baptist, non-denomination. My wife's brother belonged to a Pentecostal church, which she attended for about three years. I would go to church with her but did not feel anything, the music was pretty good, the "church food" was ok. I personally feel that churches are nothing more than a "social club" and many preachers are like car salesmen, selling the word of God, but it works for high majority of people, just not my cup of tea .

Then, I started my career in law-enforcement, dealing with homicide investigations, crime scenes, autopsies and started viewing the human body differently . After a lot of prayer, soul searching and investigations into "near death experiences", conversations with people and a few of my friends who had experienced NDA (heathens lol) things changed.

I still talk to God (pray) everyday, all is good, peace .
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  #74  
Old 04-26-2014, 06:50 PM
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I may have got off the original topic with my post but I do believe in creationism pertaining to humans . I believe man is probably much older than we know, 200,000 are so (?) .

We did do the DNA thing thru Ancestry.com last year. My wife is 99% European, I'm 96 % . It did show a trace, less than one half of 1% South African for me .
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  #75  
Old 04-27-2014, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by offgridbob View Post
An interesting post and since you believe in God , do you also believe in Jesus? In the belief of reincarnation who makes the decision of what you come back as? What type of proof is there about reincarnation?
Here is how I would answer this question. It comes from John, 3.
If you are referring to the Hindu interpretation of incarnation, I don't think that is the case. Coming back to earth as anything other than the embodied spirit we are given by G*d does NOT seem even close to reasonable however, I believe that you will find what you want to know in this passage. I think HE makes it quite clear in this... We are NOT the same as the creatures of the earth. WE are different as noted in Genesis. In Genesis 1:26
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Originally Posted by Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
That makes it clear that we are NOT animals descended from monkeys. We are HUMANS created in the IMAGE of G*d.
So, do we come back? Yes, and here is the source of my statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John 3;1-21
"5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.[c] 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You[d] must be born again.’ 8 The wind[e] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
I got THAT message from this on the very first time I read it. I have never questioned the concept of "Re-incarnation" because it is made perfectly clear by G*d. We are created in the IMAGE of HIM. This is NOT a ONE stop ride.

We make multiple stops on the "GREAT RIDE". Read John 3; 5-9 over and over until you are convinced of what HE says. Then you will stop wondering. I know I did.

YMMV
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Last edited by Icu4dzs; 04-27-2014 at 01:13 AM.
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  #76  
Old 04-27-2014, 01:46 PM
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Well said .
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  #77  
Old 04-28-2014, 01:23 AM
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Sorry, still can't connect re-incarnation with Biblical doctrine, It sounds like your trying to mix your theology with the Bible. You still have not said anything about your belief in Jesus as the son of God ?
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  #78  
Old 04-28-2014, 04:16 PM
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Sorry, still can't connect re-incarnation with Biblical doctrine, It sounds like your trying to mix your theology with the Bible.
Quite the contrary. I gave this to you in HIS WORDS, not mine. This is clearly stated by Jesus. It does not appear to have any relationship to the Hindu interpretation of the term "re-incarnation". What is your point?

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Originally Posted by offgridbob View Post
You still have not said anything about your belief in Jesus as the son of God ?
While there is no question of that in my mind, it has nothing to do with the question. Is that what you are asking or are you asking a different question? I'm confused by your response here.
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  #79  
Old 05-02-2014, 05:44 PM
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Sorry, still can't connect re-incarnation with Biblical doctrine, It sounds like your trying to mix your theology with the Bible. You still have not said anything about your belief in Jesus as the son of God ?
Found this the other night. I'm not familiar with the church or religion, but it's pretty much (???) what I believe, but again, I don't do churches or religions . After so much public service work, I distance myself from crowds, too many sheeples .

http://www.fst.org/believe.htm

Last edited by Sacalait50; 05-02-2014 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 05-07-2014, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Sacalait50 View Post
Found this the other night. I'm not familiar with the church or religion, but it's pretty much (???) what I believe, but again, I don't do churches or religions . After so much public service work, I distance myself from crowds, too many sheeples .

http://www.fst.org/believe.htm
Very interesting website. I read most of it and while I was doing that I kept saying to myself, "I could have written this years ago". Very impressive group of folks.
I'm not going to run back to Massachusetts just to go to their church, but they certainly do have a more congruous approach to what I have always thought...although I don't really know how I came up with that particular approach so long ago...
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