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  #81  
Old 11-07-2013, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Bearfootfarm View Post
NO, You won't be "thinking" at all
You will be REACTING in the same manner in which you TRAINED

Unless of course, you're saying blind panic is how you always react
Having experienced being shot at, and having been trained on both ranges and in force on force, I have seen first hand what people do.
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  #82  
Old 11-07-2013, 07:32 PM
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For seeing how bullets penetrate into gelatin. If you hunt you have probably cut into an animal. Is it anything like ballistic gelatin?
It's exactly like ballistic gelatin
Haven't you been reading the sources posted?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_gelatin

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Ballistic gelatin is a testing medium scientifically correlated to swine muscle tissue (which in turn is comparable to human muscle tissue), in which the effects of bullet wounds can be simulated.
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  #83  
Old 11-07-2013, 07:34 PM
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Having experienced being shot at, and having been trained on both ranges and in force on force, I have seen first hand what people do.
Then you're saying training is pointless since everyone just panics
I don't believe it at all
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  #84  
Old 11-07-2013, 07:44 PM
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Then you're saying training is pointless since everyone just panics
I don't believe it at all
When you are surprised. You look for cover; you look to get out, or to get out of the way.

Go in knowing your going into a gun fight; your mentally ready, your weapon is out in your hands, you fight.

This is why police officers shoot through three magazines, hit a suspect once at eight feet. They train typically more than any of us, and receive much better quality instruction than many more of us.

It is really after being shot at several times whether it is hits or misses that you become accustomed to it. That is when, even surprised, you have your self collected enough to deliver aimed fire.
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  #85  
Old 11-07-2013, 10:37 PM
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This is why police officers shoot through three magazines, hit a suspect once at eight feet. They train typically more than any of us, and receive much better quality instruction than many more of us.
LOL
First, your numbers are more hype than fact, so if you want to quote statistics at least use REAL ones

I know PLENTY of LEO's that never fire a gun other than to qualify.
Saying their instruction is "better" is simply not true, and is pretty naive.

You're trying to equate "self defense" with combat, and still pretending training means nothing at all (and at the same time saying police are "better instructed")
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  #86  
Old 11-07-2013, 10:43 PM
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I know PLENTY of LEO's that never fire a gun other than to qualify.
Saying their instruction is "better" is simply not true, and is pretty naive.
Oh, because you Know......

Got it. Carry on.
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  #87  
Old 11-08-2013, 11:52 AM
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It's exactly like ballistic gelatin
Haven't you been reading the sources posted?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_gelatin

You have never cut into an animal have you? Bones are real, I swear they are, they exist in people. You don't have to believe me but google it.
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  #88  
Old 11-08-2013, 06:24 PM
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You have never cut into an animal have you? Bones are real, I swear they are, they exist in people. You don't have to believe me but google it.
I've cut into literally hundreds of them, killed with many different weapons
.
You keep ignoring the fact that many tests have been done with bone and clothing added to gelatin, and many tests have been done on actual animal parts

At one time, testing was done on LIVE goats

Ballistic gelatin is a COMPARATIVE test medium that accurately simulates flesh, whether you choose to believe it or not

Hollowpoints STILL do the most damage, and are STILL the best choice for self defense purposes

Last edited by Bearfootfarm; 11-08-2013 at 06:34 PM.
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  #89  
Old 11-09-2013, 07:47 PM
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I've cut into literally hundreds of them, killed with many different weapons
.
You keep ignoring the fact that many tests have been done with bone and clothing added to gelatin, and many tests have been done on actual animal parts

At one time, testing was done on LIVE goats

Ballistic gelatin is a COMPARATIVE test medium that accurately simulates flesh, whether you choose to believe it or not

Hollowpoints STILL do the most damage, and are STILL the best choice for self defense purposes
Find me gelitan video with a skelton, not bones floating, wearing clotes. I would love to see it
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  #90  
Old 11-10-2013, 12:59 AM
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Find me gelitan video with a skelton, not bones floating, wearing clotes. I would love to see it
A full skeleton would make no difference in the bullets performance, but here's what you want to pretend doesn't exist:
http://ballisticsdummy.com/Ballistic...WARRIOR__.html

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  #91  
Old 11-10-2013, 01:02 AM
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Oh, because you Know......

Got it. Carry on.
It was good enough when you used it.
Why the double standard?
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  #92  
Old 11-10-2013, 01:37 AM
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It was good enough when you used it.
Why the double standard?
Because I have experienced it....... Not a magazine article, a book I have read, or a talk I have had with someone.

Don't think there is anything anyone could say or write that would change your mind. You believe what you know.

There is a difference between going into a gunfight as a soldier or an LEO expecting that gunfight to happen. Quite another to be minding your own business and find yourself in one.

Cop responding to a call is thinking about the options. Joe Bob in a 7-11 is just thinking about his slurpee and maybe a snack, when guns come out in a robbery.

How, Joe Bob puts it all back together in a couple of seconds or minutes later depends on how many times the situations have been real and or training.

Everybody is gunfighter when it is just blanks.
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  #93  
Old 11-10-2013, 10:26 AM
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A full skeleton would make no difference in the bullets performance, but here's what you want to pretend doesn't exist:
http://ballisticsdummy.com/Ballistic...WARRIOR__.html

Those are pics. I did find a video of a guy shooting through denim and bones with aj pig heart floating in gelatin. The denim decreased penetration abou 3 inches. When he shot the bone and pig heart me moved much closer so he wouldn't miss. I would post the links but now on kids notebook and don't know how.
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  #94  
Old 11-10-2013, 06:56 PM
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Those are pics. I did find a video of a guy shooting through denim and bones with aj pig heart floating in gelatin. The denim decreased penetration abou 3 inches. When he shot the bone and pig heart me moved much closer so he wouldn't miss. I would post the links but now on kids notebook and don't know how.
Random videos prove NOTHING at all

Without knowing DETAILS about the loads, it's all as meaningless as the first video you hyped so much.

Reality STILL remains that hollowpoiints are the best bullet design for self defense

Using your "logic" bulletproof vests could be made from bluejeans and matted cat hair, but we all know that's a fantasy
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  #95  
Old 11-10-2013, 07:02 PM
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There is a difference between going into a gunfight as a soldier or an LEO expecting that gunfight to happen. Quite another to be minding your own business and find yourself in one.
You're still tryng to compare self defense to combat.
80% of the time a gun is used to stop a crime, NO SHOTS are fired at all.

Self defense isn't always "a gunfight", and training DOES make a difference, unless it's your premise that it's all just a big waste of time.

Why even bother to buy a gun if you'll just throw it down and run?
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  #96  
Old 11-10-2013, 07:06 PM
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Ballistics gelatin with bone 1970

So after you watch this, tell me how much bone mattered.
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  #97  
Old 11-10-2013, 07:08 PM
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You're still tryng to compare self defense to combat.
80% of the time a gun is used to stop a crime, NO SHOTS are fired at all.

Self defense isn't always "a gunfight", and training DOES make a difference, unless it's your premise that it's all just a big waste of time.

Why even bother to buy a gun if you'll just throw it down and run?
Because I am comparing the two, when actual shots are fired.

Thus I said gun fight, not a altercation or pissing match.
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  #98  
Old 11-10-2013, 08:12 PM
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Ballistics gelatin with bone 1970

So after you watch this, tell me how much bone mattered.
They are using FMJ.
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  #99  
Old 11-10-2013, 10:40 PM
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They are using FMJ.
.357 Magnum most certainly was not and was the most destructive handgun cartridge by far.
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  #100  
Old 11-11-2013, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Bearfootfarm View Post
I've cut into literally hundreds of them, killed with many different weapons
.
You keep ignoring the fact that many tests have been done with bone and clothing added to gelatin, and many tests have been done on actual animal parts

At one time, testing was done on LIVE goats

Ballistic gelatin is a COMPARATIVE test medium that accurately simulates flesh, whether you choose to believe it or not

Hollowpoints STILL do the most damage, and are STILL the best choice for self defense purposes
so do you think cutting through an 12'' inches or so of an animal is the same as cutting through 12 inches or so of gelatin?
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