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Old 02-13-2014, 02:45 PM
LostintheOzone Male LostintheOzone is offline
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Default M1 Carbine for self defense

I'm not an AR fan, actually not even a self loader fan when it comes to rifles. Always had good luck with bolt guns as hunting rifles and that was my preference. I actually sold every rifle I owned years ago because I just didn't see a need for them anymore.

But recently I started thinking about situations other than subsistence hunting and decided to buy a self loading rifle for security. I found an Inland carbine for a good price ($550) and I'm now learning a bit about it. I've learned to field strip it and reload for 30 carbine. It seems to shoot about 4 MOA which isn't anything compared to the rifles I had but I'm not hunting with it either. The barrel has some life left in it but it is well worn.

In the last few years I've started to be more tuned into natural disasters and social disorder or SHTF as some refer to it. I have a 1911 for a close quarters SD weapon and this carbine completes what I call my necessary requirements for security. You might say I'm living a ways back in the last century.

Anyone else using an M1 carbine as a security rifle?

Last edited by LostintheOzone; 02-13-2014 at 02:51 PM.
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Old 02-13-2014, 04:26 PM
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rice paddy daddy Male rice paddy daddy is offline
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I have 2 M1 Carbines because I collect military type weapons. The Carbine is an effective self defense rifle under certain circumstances.
1. Use appropriate ammo - no GI hardball. Winchester makes a good 110 grain semi jacketed HP. I keep several magazines loaded with this ammo.
2. 15 round magazines work best. The 30 rounders are heavy enough thay may fall out if your rifle does not have the late-war M2 magazine catch.
3. Keep your distances reasonable. But then, shooting someone at 300 yards hardly qualifies as self defense anyway.

My Inland is a 1943, that was rebuilt sometime after WWII because it has a round bolt, apeture rear sight, lever type safety. But the barrel is orginal to the reciever. This is not unusual because military Carbine ammo was always non-corrosive from the beginning and not many barrels were bad enough to be replaced.

I keep mine as range rifles along with my other milsurps. My main go-to rifles are a Ruger Mini 14 that stays loaded leaning up the head of the bed, and a Springfield Armory M1A.
But there is no reason that an M1 Carbine can not be used defensively. As a military history and weapon buff when I look at WWII infantry photos I look at the weapons first. A lot of GIs and Marines carried carbines. A lot.
Although I was issued an M16 in the Army, I do not own, or even want, an AR. For what it's worth.
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Old 02-13-2014, 04:39 PM
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rice paddy daddy Male rice paddy daddy is offline
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Here are a few military surplus weapon forums that I belong to and can therefore recommend on the Carbine
http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/index.php
http://www.jouster.com/forums/index.php
http://m1carbineforum.forumco.com
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Old 02-13-2014, 04:51 PM
Nickathome Nickathome is offline
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The M1 carbine to me isn't the worst choice for a self defense weapon. Due to its small size, it can be easy to use in an urban situation. Its light weight makes for an easy carry weapon. What it has against it though is the fact that its cartridge isn't the most common, so there could be issues in obtaining more if you run out. Plus in winter scenarios the cartridge is also a hindrance as it has been proven to lack penetration on heavily clothed combatants. Personally I'd opt for something chambered in a more easily obtained caliber such as .223 or 7X62X39, which is a common as dog crap. An M1 carbine will get you by but IMO it has more negatives than positives. Just my opinion mind you.
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Old 02-13-2014, 05:32 PM
LostintheOzone Male LostintheOzone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickathome View Post
The M1 carbine to me isn't the worst choice for a self defense weapon. Due to its small size, it can be easy to use in an urban situation. Its light weight makes for an easy carry weapon. What it has against it though is the fact that its cartridge isn't the most common, so there could be issues in obtaining more if you run out. Plus in winter scenarios the cartridge is also a hindrance as it has been proven to lack penetration on heavily clothed combatants. Personally I'd opt for something chambered in a more easily obtained caliber such as .223 or 7X62X39, which is a common as dog crap. An M1 carbine will get you by but IMO it has more negatives than positives. Just my opinion mind you.
Yes, I agree with you, it has it's down side. As far as ammo goes I reload for it and keep a good supply of components on hand. Not real helpful if I have to move out of here for some reason but if that happens stores won't be selling ammo anyway. People will take what they want and it will be gone in a flash just like what happened a year ago. The popular ammo all went out the door first and it was the last to come back.

Under-powered, yes to some degree. About the same as .357. I wanted a 100 yd gun and it works fine for that, no illusions there.

I looked hard at the mini 30 as it looks like the perfect set-up but couldn't find one on my $550 budget. I'm retired so I have to be careful with my expenses.
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Old 02-13-2014, 05:53 PM
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Don't believe the "Korean War frozen clothing non-penetration" stuff.
Check out the Box O' Truth. He did a test on that. GI hardball penetrated just fine.
If you have never been to that site, google it. You are missing out on some neat stuff.
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  #7  
Old 02-13-2014, 06:11 PM
J R Adams J R Adams is offline
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A Ruger Blackhawk in 30 carbine makes a nice companion. Scarce, but they are out there.
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  #8  
Old 02-13-2014, 08:32 PM
LostintheOzone Male LostintheOzone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rice paddy daddy View Post
Don't believe the "Korean War frozen clothing non-penetration" stuff.
Check out the Box O' Truth. He did a test on that. GI hardball penetrated just fine.
If you have never been to that site, google it. You are missing out on some neat stuff.
Just read it.

Looks like the old 30 carbine is more than adequate as a self defense rifle out to 100 yds

Thanks for the info.
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Old 02-13-2014, 08:35 PM
LostintheOzone Male LostintheOzone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J R Adams View Post
A Ruger Blackhawk in 30 carbine makes a nice companion. Scarce, but they are out there.
I shot one years ago. I remember it being very loud and very accurate.
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:44 PM
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If that's all you have then it's the best there is. what is the range that you want it to shoot. I would want to get the bastards before they get within a 100 yards.
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  #11  
Old 02-15-2014, 02:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostintheOzone View Post
I'm not an AR fan, actually not even a self loader fan when it comes to rifles. Always had good luck with bolt guns as hunting rifles and that was my preference. I actually sold every rifle I owned years ago because I just didn't see a need for them anymore.

But recently I started thinking about situations other than subsistence hunting and decided to buy a self loading rifle for security. I found an Inland carbine for a good price ($550) and I'm now learning a bit about it. I've learned to field strip it and reload for 30 carbine. It seems to shoot about 4 MOA which isn't anything compared to the rifles I had but I'm not hunting with it either. The barrel has some life left in it but it is well worn.

In the last few years I've started to be more tuned into natural disasters and social disorder or SHTF as some refer to it. I have a 1911 for a close quarters SD weapon and this carbine completes what I call my necessary requirements for security. You might say I'm living a ways back in the last century.

Anyone else using an M1 carbine as a security rifle?
Well, Yes. Sort of.

Can't give you a better answer than that.

You see we can't give you an answer, I would have to know some details. Details you would be very smart not to answer. So I would give you some hypotheticals.

If you live in the city or a very built up suburban area, one of those bedroom communities. It is fine. I would rate it higher than a pump shotgun. twice or more the effective range and twice the payload. Remember the limitations though. The carbine fills a spot between a pistol and a battle rifle. It was meant to give support troops like truck drivers, cooks, and mechanics something to defend themselves with that was lighter and easier to take around with them. As a cartridge it is close to the .357 magnum, so think of it in terms of pistol caliber not rifle caliber.

If you live in the wide open spaces of the midwest or the deserts, others can and probably will out range you. Nothing sucks like being shot at and you can't shoot back. Well dieing sucks more, but having to take it and not give it back sucks a smidge less.

Old or young a 6.5 pound weapon with nothing on it does make moving around better. After your sixth 20 meter bound to engage or break contact it is still going to feel like 25 pounds of lead.

The sights are coarse and limiting. On a sunny DAY on the range it is accurate enough. Four MOA is the maximum deviation and still acceptable for service. ARs coming of the rack are 1 MOA or less from the factory. Even with optics your not going to overcome that spread. Not that there really is an optics option in a milsurp M1 carbine.

Ammunition. As others mentioned isn't common. The hollow points are going to be more effective and your not burdened by the Hague conventions. However, it wasn't designed for HP ammunition. If you decide to go with that shoot some trials to be sure it loads effectively and every time.

Magazines. If I remember right it does have some pretty sturdy magazines. Consider what is you "combat" load, and buy a second and third set.
I use the magazine reliability test by Sweeney that authors the "Book of the AR" guides. Off to the range. Load every magazine with five rounds. With a paint pen marks every magazine (1, 2, 3 or 1a, 1b, 2a, 2b) to keep accurate track of which is which. Fun time. Short range 25 yards put those five rounds in the center X. Magazines that load all five without fail go in the good pile, magazines that do not go in the bad pile. Part two, load those magazines full (15 or 30), you want that spring under full compression. Again 25 yards, five rounds, in the center X. Your not going to empty the magazine, just the top five rounds from each. Your testing the spring, the follower doesn't hang, follower positions the round properly, and the magazine lips aren't bent or releasing the round to soon. Good pile, and bad pile. Good pile becomes the magazines for your combat load, and bad is for range practice (FTF, reload drills, fast mag change) because your not concerned about them getting beat up.

The rest depends upon age, health, fitness, and having a plan that works with your resources.
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  #12  
Old 02-16-2014, 04:56 AM
Dennis G Male Dennis G is offline
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Default AK-47

I own two AK-47 with scopes...

Gives me four inch groups at 100 yards...

Bought sufficient 7.62x39 ammo in ball and hollow point to have plenty to practice with and plenty to use if needed.

With them are about twenty magazines including a 74 round drum magazine.

They are fun to shoot!

Dennis G
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Old 02-17-2014, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis G View Post
I own two AK-47 with scopes...

Gives me four inch groups at 100 yards...

Bought sufficient 7.62x39 ammo in ball and hollow point to have plenty to practice with and plenty to use if needed.

With them are about twenty magazines including a 74 round drum magazine.

They are fun to shoot!

Dennis G
OP was on value the M1 Carbine as a self defense option.

Are you suggesting that the M1 Carbine should be replaced with a AK?.......or is this just a point of information.

Some time is best to "dance with who ya brung"......
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Old 02-17-2014, 06:03 PM
blackpowderbill Male blackpowderbill is offline
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Thumbs up nice carbine

I have a M1 carbine inherited it from my father in law. It is a nice , fast handling rifle. Easy & fairly inexpensive to reload the cartridges. Accurate with the iron sights.
Highly recommended if you have one or can pick one up at a fair price.
It compliments my other 30 cal rifles well especially in the reloading department.

Now even if you have an ought 6 , 308 you can still load the plinker bullets for shooting fun and small game.
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Old 02-17-2014, 08:36 PM
ABCD ABCD is offline
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I would not buy one but would not turn one down.

If I did not already have other rifles I would seriously consider getting one as it is very price competitive. I spent a bunch more to obtain a AR as that is the weapon my spouse is most familiar with. Routinely qualified expert in the Army with it and has never fired any other rifle.

I prefer a short shot gun for home defense.
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Old 02-17-2014, 11:42 PM
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Do they make a semi auto 4/10 in a short barreled carbine or bull pup ? with the different pellets and slug size . I could see that as a great alternative instead of the 30 cal. 4/10 slugs were still around in plentiful supply when all the other ammo was gone and they are easy to hand load and don't cost an arm & a leg.
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Old 02-18-2014, 12:23 AM
Dennis G Male Dennis G is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter63 View Post
OP was on value the M1 Carbine as a self defense option.

Are you suggesting that the M1 Carbine should be replaced with a AK?.......or is this just a point of information.

Some time is best to "dance with who ya brung"......

My only point was that I prefer the AK ... For hunting and for self defense...but you are right.... Maybe for another thread...my apologies.

Dennis G
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Old 02-23-2014, 05:11 PM
essayons4791 essayons4791 is offline
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I like and trust the M1 Carbine. It's a good weapon- handy, light, and proven in battle.

In regard to the ammo situation, make sure you keep plenty on hand. Count on ZERO resupply if you need it- all you have to do is see the evidence of the recent ammo freak out, and you'll know what I mean. Read "Alas, Babylon", too- there's a good section where the main character tries to buy ammo after the nukes hit. The story is spot on.

For training purposes Chiappa makes a great carbine clone in .22, I like it. Of course, right now you'll have more trouble finding the .22 than the .30 M1. The Kahr Arms Carbine clone is a good weapon, if you can't find original USGI for a decent price.

Women seem to like the carbine as well.

Agree with ARMY SGT on the mags, make sure you know which ones are iffy.

The little carbine that could gets my definite stamp of approval.
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Old 02-23-2014, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Do they make a semi auto 4/10 in a short barreled carbine or bull pup ?
I'd never bet my life on a .410
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Old 02-23-2014, 11:09 PM
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Why do so many people make determinations to go into a potential gun fight with antique, obsolete, underpowered firearms?

Transferring all possible advantages to your attacker.

I don't get it.

Range
AR- without optics 300 meters / with optics 500
M1 carbine without optics 100 / no standard optics option.

Magazine
AR capacity 20, 30, 100.
M1 Carbine 15, 30

Ammunition
AR 5.56x45mm - common all outlets (govt manufacture)
M1 Carbine .30 carbine (7.62x33mm) No longer in Service.

Parts availability
AR- current manufacture
M1 carbine discontinued (1950s)
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