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  #21  
Old 02-24-2014, 04:44 AM
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Why do so many people make determinations to go into a potential gun fight with antique, obsolete, underpowered firearms?
"Self defense" isn't always a "gunfight"
It can be stopping a burglar, a road rage event, a strong armed robbery, etc.
It is usually over in seconds, and normally less than 5 shots are fired.

What it is NOT is "combat" for the vast majority unless you stipulate a total collapse of society.

Realistically, you only need a gun capable of short range accuracy and power, especially inside a home

More is nice, but most true "self defense" shootings take place at distances commonly measured in feet and not yards.

Also odds are great that if the criminal IS armed, it will be with a handgun and not a long gun, so any carbine will be more powerful than what the majority of crooks carry.

As to parts for a carbine, you can find them lots of places and there are civilian versions still in production.

If you're not a cop or military, you're more likely to get struck by lightning than get into an extended firefight
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  #22  
Old 02-24-2014, 08:12 PM
J R Adams J R Adams is offline
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Originally Posted by ArmySGT. View Post
Why do so many people make determinations to go into a potential gun fight with antique, obsolete, underpowered firearms?

Transferring all possible advantages to your attacker.

I don't get it.

Range
AR- without optics 300 meters / with optics 500
M1 carbine without optics 100 / no standard optics option.

Magazine
AR capacity 20, 30, 100.
M1 Carbine 15, 30

Ammunition
AR 5.56x45mm - common all outlets (govt manufacture)
M1 Carbine .30 carbine (7.62x33mm) No longer in Service.

Parts availability
AR- current manufacture
M1 carbine discontinued (1950s)
Because many of us prefer blued barrels and wood stocks???
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  #23  
Old 02-24-2014, 10:25 PM
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If it is the nostalgia of having an M1 carbine, just get a Rugar mini 14 with a folding stock. Now you have the paratrooper M1 carbine but a whole lot better.
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  #24  
Old 02-24-2014, 10:57 PM
J R Adams J R Adams is offline
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If it is the nostalgia of having an M1 carbine, just get a Rugar mini 14 with a folding stock. Now you have the paratrooper M1 carbine but a whole lot better.
I would consider a mini-30. Understand may of the current combat troops prefer the 7.62 X 39 or 51. They feel the 224 is a little short on knock down. Would really like an M1-A but they're a little pricy.
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  #25  
Old 02-24-2014, 11:55 PM
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Because many of us prefer blued barrels and wood stocks???
Wood is for coffins.

This isn't the pretty girl you want at the barn dance.

This is the rifle you mean to kill someone with to keep from being killed yourself.
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  #26  
Old 02-24-2014, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Bearfootfarm View Post
"Self defense" isn't always a "gunfight"
It can be stopping a burglar, a road rage event, a strong armed robbery, etc.
It is usually over in seconds, and normally less than 5 shots are fired.

What it is NOT is "combat" for the vast majority unless you stipulate a total collapse of society.
This is what the OP said he wanted the M1 Carbine for......... counter burglars.


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Originally Posted by LostintheOzone View Post
But recently I started thinking about situations other than subsistence hunting and decided to buy a self loading rifle for security.

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In the last few years I've started to be more tuned into natural disasters and social disorder or SHTF as some refer to it. I have a 1911 for a close quarters SD weapon and this carbine completes what I call my necessary requirements for security. You might say I'm living a ways back in the last century.

Anyone else using an M1 carbine as a security rifle?
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  #27  
Old 02-25-2014, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ArmySGT. View Post
Wood is for coffins.

This isn't the pretty girl you want at the barn dance.

This is the rifle you mean to kill someone with to keep from being killed yourself.
I believe Sgt York used a '03 Springfield bolt action and he did well.

You dance with your girl and I'll dance with mine.
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  #28  
Old 02-25-2014, 12:39 AM
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03 Springfield......other say P-17 Enfield.....Either or, he did well because the Germans fought with almost identical rifles..infact the parent rifles of the 03 and P17. 98 Gewehr.

Sarge makes a point, but roll with a Carbine if it is what you have. But don't be pissed when someone better armed in that civil breakdown kills you first!
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  #29  
Old 02-25-2014, 12:43 AM
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I believe Sgt York used a '03 Springfield bolt action and he did well.

You dance with your girl and I'll dance with mine.
In World War One, against Germans carrying bolt action Mausers.

Congratulations, you make my apples to apples comparison for me.
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  #30  
Old 02-25-2014, 10:13 AM
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And so on. Then somebody with one of those 50 cal sniper rifles comes along and picks us all off.

Come on guys, it's not the number of rounds you put out it's where you put the rounds that counts
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  #31  
Old 02-25-2014, 11:18 AM
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And so on. Then somebody with one of those 50 cal sniper rifles comes along and picks us all off.

Come on guys, it's not the number of rounds you put out it's where you put the rounds that counts
So that didn't work. So change the question.
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  #32  
Old 02-25-2014, 11:27 AM
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If you don't have anything else and the terrain suits the M1 Carbine. Use it by all means.

Bear in mind the limitations, and try to make those advantages or atleast minimize them.

It is a pistol caliber carbine. In anything other than close urban terrain or dense woods you're at a significant range disadvantage.

You don't have a squad backing you up with M1 Garands and a M1918 BAR, can't call on the weapons section for support from the M1917 Machineguns either.

So if you're preparing for the fight of your life. You are going to stand your ground and protect your homestead with your last breath.

There are somethings about firefights. It is about firepower, surprise, and maneuver. You're on your homestead, so you have given over surprise and maneuver to the other guy. He gets to decide time and location, all you got on your side is firepower.

Castles fell out of favor because eventually along came cannon and the attacker had all three.
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  #33  
Old 02-25-2014, 12:14 PM
J R Adams J R Adams is offline
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If you don't have anything else and the terrain suits the M1 Carbine. Use it by all means.

Bear in mind the limitations, and try to make those advantages or atleast minimize them.

It is a pistol caliber carbine. In anything other than close urban terrain or dense woods you're at a significant range disadvantage.

You don't have a squad backing you up with M1 Garands and a M1918 BAR, can't call on the weapons section for support from the M1917 Machineguns either.

So if you're preparing for the fight of your life. You are going to stand your ground and protect your homestead with your last breath.

There are somethings about firefights. It is about firepower, surprise, and maneuver. You're on your homestead, so you have given over surprise and maneuver to the other guy. He gets to decide time and location, all you got on your side is firepower.

Castles fell out of favor because eventually along came cannon and the attacker had all three.
I'm not in disagreement with you, the thread was about M1 carbines.
Perhaps you would look more favorably on an 8 mm Mauser 33-40 mountain carbine or an AK-47.
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  #34  
Old 02-25-2014, 08:31 PM
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I'm not in disagreement with you, the thread was about M1 carbines.
Perhaps you would look more favorably on an 8 mm Mauser 33-40 mountain carbine or an AK-47.
Listen I am not altogether against an M1 Carbine. If that is what you have make the best of it. It is more than a pistol and more capable than a 12 gauge pump.

What I am against is purposefully pushing aside better options for what is aesthetics (liking the look and feel).

I am not a fan of the AK but, in a choice between the AK and the M1; I will take the AK.

Range
AK - 300-350 meters
M1 carbine 100-150

magazine
AK - 30, 45, 75.
M1 Carbine 15, 30

Parts.....
AK still in production
M1 Carbine - discontinued 1950s

Ammunition
AK- still in production
M1 carbine - surplus, or small lots of specialty runs.

The bad guys aren't picking guns for their blued steel and sex appeal. (Ok except drug cartels.... and their silly).

Function and performance comes first. This isn't about collecting or showing off at the range. This is about defense against multiple bad guys that mean to kill you and take over your property.
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  #35  
Old 02-25-2014, 08:42 PM
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I would consider a mini-30. Understand may of the current combat troops prefer the 7.62 X 39 or 51. They feel the 224 is a little short on knock down. Would really like an M1-A but they're a little pricy.
After a decade of War, combat troops have realistic views on the AK-47. Non-combat troops that don't get outside the wire may still think the AK is legendary.

We regularly took any we captured (2003-2005) and took them out to impromptu ranges (RPGs too). After trying to hit targets at 100, holding high on 300 meter targets, and other such stuff, joe wasn't impressed with accuracy, though operating sandy and rusty was true.

You do here of a preference for more power. Haj likes to hide behind stuff like palm trees, mud brick walls, and other stuff. 7.62 NATO (7.62x51) blast through those and Haj bolts for the hills.

The trouble with the 5.56 NATO (5.56x45mm) is that the standard stuff is armor piercing (M855A1) green tipped ammo. Haj isn't wearing Russian issue body armor with titanium plates. This is like trying to stab a man to death with an ice pick. The bullets zip right through.

Most guys (Infantry) use the advantage of x3 optics (Army issue Trijicons) and aim for the head, shoulder blade, or pelvis. This smashs bones and puts Haj out of the fight.
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  #36  
Old 02-25-2014, 08:50 PM
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All that's wonderful for COMBAT
Thread title says "self defense"
That, to me, means you're NOT getting into protracted firefights at long range
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  #37  
Old 02-25-2014, 09:13 PM
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All that's wonderful for COMBAT
Thread title says "self defense"
That, to me, means you're NOT getting into protracted firefights at long range
So you live in an RV you can drive off with?
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  #38  
Old 02-27-2014, 05:13 PM
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Gee whiz! I haven't been in a firefight in the last 43 years! What am I doing wrong?
Maybe I need to move to Zimbabwae or something.
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  #39  
Old 02-27-2014, 07:24 PM
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So you live in an RV you can drive off with?
No one can effectively attack my house from 300 yds with normal weapons.
I've made it past 60 years with no firefights so odds are in my favor.
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  #40  
Old 02-27-2014, 10:06 PM
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Gee whiz! I haven't been in a firefight in the last 43 years! What am I doing wrong?
Maybe I need to move to Zimbabwae or something.
I can't believe people pay good money to ride rollercoasters and be scared either.
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