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  #1  
Old 03-17-2014, 11:33 PM
Kachad Male Kachad is offline
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Default Comparison: Savage Model 11 308 vs Tikka 30-06

Greetings All -

I've recently purchased a Savage Model 11 Hunter XP in .308 and a Tikka T3 in 30-06.

I know this won't be a "direct" side-by-side comparison of either rifle platform or cartridge, but I will be running an experiment between the two.

So far, I'm planning on using IMR-4064 for the powder - for both calibers. I typically use this powder, because it's been available on a regular basis - so I have a stockpile. I also have Varget, but don't really want to use this as it seems like it's always in short supply.

Bullets will most likely be Hornday 165 gr Interlock BTSP - this may change, depending on my final review of bullets in my stock and what is available atm.

I will be using a chrono as part of the experiment, and will be looking at drop between 100 and 200 yards along with MOA at both distances.

A couple of questions:

Input on experimental design- powder?

I plan on loading three different powder levels for each caliber, based on both Hornady and Lee loading levels. I never load at minimum or maximum but stay in mid-range suggested powder loads.

Input on firing frequency?

I was thinking that I would fire a blind round for each rifle\load combo. After that I would fire 3 series of 5 rounds for each rifle\load combo.

I'm a bit concerned with barrel heat up, so I would hit the range three times, cycling the loads from first to last, etc.. - and take averages and standard deviations to try to eliminate that factor.

I would compare fps, standard deviation, and MOA after the experiment was complete, and make a conclusion from that.

Thoughts and suggestions?
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  #2  
Old 03-18-2014, 07:55 PM
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I will make a prediction.
The 30-06 will eat the .308 lunch if you get too far from "engineered factory rounds".
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Old 03-18-2014, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kachad View Post
Greetings All - Thoughts and suggestions?
===
Suggestion.... PICTURES DURING ALL THIS ARE REQUIRED....

Thought.... Both calibers will be outstanding performers....

Enjoy
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Old 03-19-2014, 03:42 AM
Kachad Male Kachad is offline
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Looking forward to this. I have hunted with an 06 and 300 savage, but have no experience with the 308.

Figured I wanted the 308 experience since I can convert that brass to 300 Savage.

I will document and take pics ... Will take a couple months, but will update!
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Old 03-19-2014, 12:09 PM
MichaelK Male MichaelK is offline
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Typically I don't chose the power level I want to shoot in a rifle I handload for. I let the rifle select the load it wants to shoot the most accurately and feed it only that.

When I want more or less power, I just switch to a different caliber.
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Old 03-21-2014, 08:05 PM
Kachad Male Kachad is offline
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I've decided to increase the sampling group for each load from 3 sets of 5 shots to 5 sets of 5 shots. But limit the initial range to 100 yards, to keep the size of the initial experiment manageable.

Looks like this is the minimum sample size to have some sort of statistical meaning.

Once the results from that experiment are completed for each rifle and caliber, then I'll select the load that looks the best for fps and grouping and run the second Experiment.
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Old 03-22-2014, 12:22 AM
Kachad Male Kachad is offline
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This will document the results

http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/...ps67f398cf.jpg

Edit: Spreadsheet updated

Last edited by Kachad; 03-22-2014 at 03:59 PM.
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Old 04-25-2014, 04:06 AM
Kachad Male Kachad is offline
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Have all the reloading completed for the experiment, drove Up Nord to the property for some work and range time.

... had at least 3-4" of snow and on top of the melting from the last couple of weeks - the range is pretty soggy.

Maybe it will dry out enough in a couple days so I can start running the range part of the experiment.
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Old 05-30-2014, 03:47 AM
Kachad Male Kachad is offline
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Bore sighted the Tikka 06 with a laser cartridge thing. Put the scope on myself. 8 shots and she was centered. Nice shooter.

The Savage - was bore sighted from the factory. Was way off. Going to grab a laser cartridge thing for this one and restart.

Getting closer, will be starting the experiment the weekend after next.
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Old 05-31-2014, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kachad View Post
Bore sighted the Tikka 06 with a laser cartridge thing. Put the scope on myself. 8 shots and she was centered. Nice shooter.

The Savage - was bore sighted from the factory. Was way off. Going to grab a laser cartridge thing for this one and restart.

Getting closer, will be starting the experiment the weekend after next.
Just pull the bolt and look down the barrel
I've done hundreds of rifles that way
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Old 06-01-2014, 07:08 AM
Kachad Male Kachad is offline
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Originally Posted by Bearfootfarm View Post
Just pull the bolt and look down the barrel
I've done hundreds of rifles that way
Probably what I should have done, but too late! Already have the laser thingy. Can't wait to get back to the range this coming weekend.
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Old 06-01-2014, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kachad View Post
..........
The Savage - was bore sighted from the factory. Was way off. Going to grab a laser cartridge thing for this one and restart.
Sadly this is the case most of the time.......but you would be surprised at how many people buy a new rifle w/scope and a box of shells on Friday night and go hunting in the morning.

Good job for checking and fixing.
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Old 06-01-2014, 09:17 PM
Kachad Male Kachad is offline
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Originally Posted by hunter63 View Post
Sadly this is the case most of the time.......but you would be surprised at how many people buy a new rifle w/scope and a box of shells on Friday night and go hunting in the morning.

Good job for checking and fixing.
I'm kind of fanatic about hunting so that zeal carries over to the bench and range. As with many of us other hunters, any of those activities is our "happy place".

I hear you about your comment regarding the Friday night shopper Saturday hunter. Seems like a lot of those guys are also the ones at the bar getting wasted and loud the night before opener.

(don't get me wrong, I'm also a guy that enjoys his bar time - but we hit it hard when the meat is on the pole, not before)
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Old 09-01-2014, 03:40 PM
Kachad Male Kachad is offline
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I've been having less time to devote to this during the summer than I thought, but finally have completed the first of the three loads for each rifle.

View of the Range

http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/...psc96c9dd0.jpg

http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6ba85fdf.jpg

Results (100yds)

Savage .308

Average: 2.214"
SD: .555"

http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/...psd5a4e635.jpg

http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1250f4a7.jpg


Tikka 30-06

Average: 1.712"
SD: .223

http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0b451cff.jpg

http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/...psf30fb82e.jpg

But I did have one group with the Savage that was a lot sloppier then the rest. I'm sure that represents my consistency and not the load\equipment. If you took that group out, then the Savage numbers are a lot better:

Savage .308

Average: 1.973"
SD: .147"

But, I'm sticking with the original numbers, since I don't really want to scalp data.

Observations:

1: I am in love with the trigger on the Tikka. It has one of the cleanest breaks that I have ever come across. There is nothing wrong with the trigger on the Savage - but for my personal preference the Tikka rules here.

2: I like the fact that it's easier to visually check to see the cartridge when you're jacking it into the chamber with the Savage. With the Tikka, you have to twist the rifle or crane your neck over a bit to view the cartridge. You don't have to do this with the Savage.

3: Both rifles have Nikon scopes, 3x9-40 with the BDC reticles. The Tikka has a prostaff while the Savage has the one from the factory. The prostaff definitely has better clarity.

Now that September is here, I'll have more time out at the range - almost hunting season!!!!

Last edited by Kachad; 09-01-2014 at 04:00 PM.
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Old 09-01-2014, 10:37 PM
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Sounds like you're off to a good start.
If you can find some, try a few Nosler Ballistic Tips and I bet the groups will tighten up
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Old 09-01-2014, 11:23 PM
Kachad Male Kachad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearfootfarm View Post
Sounds like you're off to a good start.
If you can find some, try a few Nosler Ballistic Tips and I bet the groups will tighten up
Thanks.

After this experiment is finished, that is pretty much exactly what I plan on doing. The idea is to take a variety of different bullet types, same grain, and evaluate them at the equivalent powder load at 200 yards.
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Old 11-03-2014, 11:18 PM
Kachad Male Kachad is offline
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Finally finished the 30-06 half of the experiment. This was kind of mandatory as I'll be using the Tikka for deer hunting this weekend. I really wish I had more time to spend reloading and experimenting, but work at the property kept me from that (and probably the least amount of grouse hunting completed in years).

Tikka 30-06

44.4 gr
Average: 1.712"
SD: .223

46.0 gr
Average: 1.615"
SD: .376

47.5 gr
Average: 1.42
SD: .164

Cases prepped to process a bunch of 47.5 gr loads ....
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  #18  
Old 12-14-2014, 04:08 PM
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May I ask what reloading manual are you using?
Are you using SAMMI specs for COL or are you exceeding those to reduce the jump?
Do you know how long the jump is for each of your loads in both rifles?
If I missed the information I asked above, terribly sorry. I will go back and re-read.
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Old 12-29-2014, 11:10 PM
Kachad Male Kachad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMonolith View Post
May I ask what reloading manual are you using?
For all my reloading, I reference Lee, Hornady, and Lyman. I take a look at the recommended grain weights then pick\average out the values.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMonolith View Post
Are you using SAMMI specs for COL or are you exceeding those to reduce the jump?
Do you know how long the jump is for each of your loads in both rifles?
Straight SAMMI specs for now. I've been reloading for a few years now, with very good results - but I haven't jumped to the stage where I'm tailoring the COL for each rifle.

Thanks for the questions, Dude.!
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  #20  
Old 12-30-2014, 08:25 PM
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Bearfootfarm Male Bearfootfarm is offline
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Quote:
I haven't jumped to the stage where I'm tailoring the COL for each rifle.
With most rifles, you'll be limited by magazine length anyway

COL would change with eacc projectile anyway, so it's often not worth the effort if you aren't shooting competition

I've always gotten better results by bedding the actions and floating the barrels too
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