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  #1  
Old 02-24-2015, 09:43 PM
CatherineID CatherineID is offline
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Default Refuse the test? Who is with me?

For those that live in Common Core states, who is going to refuse to allow their children to take the end-of-the-year assessment test?
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Old 02-24-2015, 10:03 PM
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Other than your children, who will that hurt?
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Old 02-24-2015, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by CatherineID View Post
For those that live in Common Core states, who is going to refuse to allow their children to take the end-of-the-year assessment test?
Why do say that ?

What is wrong with common core ?

Do yourself know or just that the administration supports it so by definition it must be bad ?

Judge it on its merits - nothing else!
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Old 02-25-2015, 10:25 AM
CatherineID CatherineID is offline
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I'm shocked that the only people to respond so far ON THIS BOARD have no knowledge about Common Core. Oh well, I guess the uninformed and misinformed are everywhere.

My child is not harmed by refusing the test.

Common Core is wrong on many, many levels. And yes, I've actually read the standards.
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Old 02-25-2015, 11:33 AM
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I'm shocked that the only people to respond so far ON THIS BOARD have no knowledge about Common Core. Oh well, I guess the uninformed and misinformed are everywhere.

My child is not harmed by refusing the test.

Common Core is wrong on many, many levels. And yes, I've actually read the standards.
Would you care to tell us why you think it is wrong " many many levels" ?
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Old 02-25-2015, 11:41 AM
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We don't have children, so to be honest, I haven't needed to pay all that much attention compared to other subjects. I just pay my taxes to educate everyone else's children and have to hope for the best since my opinion has less value to the education establishment than that of a parent.

I have read a fair amount, and seen some of the regular exam questions, mostly with regards to mathematics.

It sounds a lot like "New Math" rehashed. In other words, a whole generation of kids wasted on a poorly thought through experiment. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Woodstock generation was also the New Math generation to a large extent.

If the standardized test questions are basically a regurgitation of the moronic methods being taught, then we're in for some real trouble a few decades from now if those tests are used as career indicators.

My coworkers with kids tell me that children haven't been taught cursive for years, and they can barely print. They also aren't taught typing/keyboarding, so they all hunt and peck. They aren't made to memorize multiplication and division, so they're basically lost without a calculator. Phonics is no longer used, so they have to memorize spellings for every single word since they can't even reason a close approximation for those that follow the rules, and they have no clue about where our language comes from (such as latin roots, greek, etc.). Sentence diagramming is also no longer taught - they have no clue about the parts of speech and sentence structure. If you ask them about subjects, predicates, objects, conjunctions - they give you a completely blank look. But it really doesn't matter since they can't write and word processors can do all the grammar, spelling, and punctuation for them, right?

What's taught in history ignores significant events in the West and the U.S. so that obscurities from all over the globe and political correctness can be taught instead. There's no longer any real civics education other than entitlements. Since they can't read anything unless it's printed in Arial 12pt, they have no way of doing any original research unless it's been transcribed for them.

All of the above is pre-common core and, from what I've read, it's just going to get worse. I've read common core lessons. I don't understand the instruction even on subjects I am well-versed in. I pity the poor 3rd or 4th grader who has to wade through the gobbldigook being spewed at them and then try to spit it back on a test. All it seems to be doing is trading memorization of useful information for memorization of newspeak.

I went to a private Catholic elementary school, back when nuns were still allowed to be a little intimidating. It wasn't always fun, but when I went to a public high school after 8th grade, I was exposed to very little I didn't already know from elementary school, and I went to a pretty good public high school and was in honors and AP classes. In elementary school, we learned cursive, we memorized arithmetic tables, we learned phonics and we had time to study religion at the same time. Our "basic math" classes exposed me to geometry and a fair amount of what was classified as "Algebra II" in junior year HS in the 7th and 8th grade. We had time to learn exponents, scientific notation, and use different number bases other than 10 (2 and 16 come in pretty handy for my daily work).

I'm in a technology based career and I use what I learned from those old school nuns with their old school methods in elementary school every single day. I also use it regularly in my non-work life. I doubt many going through common core will be able to say that when they are adults. But they'll feel good about their ability to parrot nonsense, and that's what seems to be important.
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Old 02-25-2015, 12:00 PM
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Math ? Really here are the standards for math 8th grade.

http://www.corestandards.org/Math/Content/8/NS/

Care to show me where there is new math.

Like you my kids are grown now but I pay taxes and I don't mind this and paying to educate the future if America . We sure aren't doing very good are we . ?


Show me anything in the standards that say America historical " significant " events are not to be taught ?
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Old 02-25-2015, 12:42 PM
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I know very little about common core, however what little i do know makes it sound more like a standardized regimentation. in my experience that doesn't work, the harder you try to make something a one size fits all system then the more people will be forced outside of it.

and my personal experience in high school in the 90s was a mix of being a vocal activist who put up political cartoons, and being the guy arested for refusing to go to a pep rally. in the year book i was listed as the school non conformest but refused to show up for my picture to be taken. the school i went to spent 30 million on a new gym but the library only had enough books to fill a minivan, that was great material for my political cartoons.
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Old 02-25-2015, 01:43 PM
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Math? Really here are the standards for math 8th grade.

http://www.corestandards.org/Math/Content/8/NS/
Perfect example of a 'bad standard' because it states clearly that the student has to use a number line to compare fractions (1.1 is a smaller number that 1.2) which my DD was doing back in 3rd grade. Doing is again is 8th grade is making her completely bored!!!

Stanford University professor James Milgram, the only mathematician on the validation panel, concluded that the Common Core math scheme would place American students two years behind their peers in other high-achieving countries. In protest, Milgram refused to sign off on the standards.

These "rigorous" standards pushed Algebra I from middle school to 9th grade.

Division instruction is postponed to 6th grade.

Prime factorization, common denominators, conversions of fractions and decimals, and algebraic manipulation are barely taught.

Traditional Euclidean geometry is replaced with an experimental approach that had not been previously tested in the U.S.

The "college and career readiness" the standards hope to achieve is NOT a 4-year college degree but a 1 or 2-yr community college certificate program.

Students in high school are expected to read at least 75% "non-fiction, informational texts" which pushes the standards into subject areas like history and science which the Common Core standards aren't supposed to address. And this leaves little time in English Language classes to analyze classical fiction which is what is the core to developing logical reasoning.

The data collection that is required under Common Core implementation is very far reaching: voting preferences, medical/health records, religion practiced by the family, internet access and so much more - all by passes the FERPA law to protect privacy.

The standards were adopted by states in 2009 because of the promise to get a share of billions in grant money for their schools. They had to agree to adopt the standards before they were even published. Now if states don't continue to apply for a waiver to the ESEA standards (a whole other can of worms), they risk any federal education dollars they currently get and to waive the ESEA standards they have to continue to implement Common Core.
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Old 02-25-2015, 02:09 PM
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Really ? here is the fraction standard for the third grade .
http://www.corestandards.org/Math/Content/NF/

And here is the algebra standards by grade

http://www.corestandards.org/search/?f=all&t=Algebra

Division in 6 grade . Not hardly it is on 3rd grade

http://www.corestandards.org/search/?f=all&t=Division

Quote:
pushes the standards into subject areas like history and science which the Common Core standards aren't supposed to address.

I hope I am misunderstanding you .
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Old 02-25-2015, 02:39 PM
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Stanford University professor James Milgram, the only mathematician on the validation panel, concluded that the Common Core math scheme would place American students two years behind their peers in other high-achieving countries. In protest, Milgram refused to sign off on the .
Not true. There were at least 5 mathematicians on the validation committee .

See the list page 4

http://www.corestandards.org/assets/...eport_6.10.pdf
Second much of Migrams critique is in error.

http://anhpe.org/2014/01/23/james-mi...ath-standards/
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Old 02-25-2015, 02:45 PM
CatherineID CatherineID is offline
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I hope I am misunderstanding you .
Misunderstanding what? I have a gifted daughter in 7th grade now. All of the material she is covering in math is a repeat of what they taught in lower grades (for instance, find the solution to 8+3 on a number line). She completely and utterly bored and the school can't put her in an advanced class because the state, because of Common Core implementation, has told them they can no longer offer advanced classes in middle school. Whether a student got an A last year or a D, they are in exactly the same class, learning exactly the same material. My DD doodles during math or finishes up homework from other classes.

Common Core standards only cover math and English-language Arts, yet the standards clearly drive policy decisions to apply ELA standards to other subjects like science or history in order to meet the requirements. Because the higher grades (middle and high school) have to read a larger portion of non-fiction, instructional texts the only way that standard can be met is to count science and history text-books as non-fiction. As a result, new science and history text-books are being written and purchased to align with the Common Core ELA standards.
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Old 02-25-2015, 02:50 PM
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Much of you post is merely cut and past from various blogs opposing cc. For example- the milgram bit originated word for word from Milchele Malkin blog and has been quoted all over the internet. ( attribution ? )
Look - we sure as hell aren't doing very well as is. So why not try something
. As Long as NEA fights any kind of accountability by teachers, that change is certainly not going to take place in the status quo class room unless forced on them .
All I hear is wa-wa but no solution. Maybe imposing standards will make teachers teach. The impetus has to come from outside above the Board of education and sure as hell above the teachers and the schools.
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Old 02-25-2015, 03:04 PM
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Without facts on your side, your argument becomes nothing more than pointless attacks.

There were only two real teachers on the standards committee and both of them refused to sign off on the standards and both are continuing to speak against the standards.

The solutions are easy:

~ Dissolve the federal Department of Education. Since its inception in the mid-1970's, the state of education in the US has only gone down.

~ High quality, verified standards already exist - and they are free and widely available. Text books are already being printed to reflect them.

~ "Doing something" means nothing if we're doing the wrong thing. My child doesn't have time for the givernment to play politics.

~ Return education decisions and education dollars to the states. Let them compete. Continue to use the ACT and SAT tests (and whatever system emerges as their competition) as optional national comparisons to how well schools are doing.

~ Evaluate teachers by standards designed by their school boards. After all it is those tax dollars that are paying their salaries. If parents aren't happy because their children can't compete on the national level, the quality of education will improve.
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Old 02-25-2015, 03:22 PM
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I gave you the standards that defused every point you made .

I gave you the list of the validation board. - which included numerous teachers and have no doubts that many that listed higher level positions started life as teachers .

You merely cut and paste . I provide backup links to everything I post and you have the nerve to say " Without facts on your side,


1. Do away with dept of education. No problem . I agree and along with it goes all the federal money. I am old so I won't see the massive increase in your taxes.

I will go a step further
Do away with public education period. Make it all private schools. By doing that parents will vote with thier dollars for better education.
Competition will improve the education system and poor schools will disappear without customers. Good teachers will sought after and bad ones will be out of work.
How about that.?

Then if you aren't satisfied with a school for you daughter you can go find a better one - shop for the best. How's that ?

Leaving it to the local school boards is a non starter. They accomplish nothing and are at the whim of the politicians providing their budget. You do that and quality will deteriorate even faster than it is now. People who are Governing schools should be education professionals not moms and dads wanna be politicians.
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Last edited by MissouriFree; 02-25-2015 at 03:53 PM.
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Old 02-25-2015, 03:40 PM
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Misunderstanding what? I have a gifted daughter in 7th grade now. All of the material she is covering in math is a repeat of what they taught in lower grades (for instance, find the solution to 8+3 on a number line). She completely and utterly bored and the school can't put her in an advanced class because the state, because of Common Core implementation, has told them they can no longer offer advanced classes in middle school. Whether a student got an A last year or a D, they are in exactly the same class, learning exactly the same material. My DD doodles during math or finishes up homework from other classes.

Common Core standards only cover math and English-language Arts, yet the standards clearly drive policy decisions to apply ELA standards to other subjects like science or history in order to meet the requirements. Because the higher grades (middle and high school) have to read a larger portion of non-fiction, instructional texts the only way that standard can be met is to count science and history text-books as non-fiction. As a result, new science and history text-books are being written and purchased to align with the Common Core ELA standards.

So you have a gifted daughter and you think " common core standards" should challenge her .

Hummmmm! What about the rest of the kids. ?

There is nothing in CC that prohibits you school from a gifted program. ?
Maybe you argument is with the local school then.


As far as counting history and science as non fiction -- great idea ! What non fiction would you have them read ?
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Old 02-25-2015, 05:58 PM
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Watch the video of how you now add 9 + 6.

http://www.wgrz.com/story/news/local...lper/14925331/

Yes standards may be the same, but I can see how kids can easily be bored then it takes close to a minute to solve what could be solved in seconds.
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Old 02-25-2015, 07:55 PM
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Oh that base 10 system - you mean the one we use every day in America ?
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Old 02-25-2015, 08:05 PM
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I'm shocked that the only people to respond so far ON THIS BOARD have no knowledge about Common Core. Oh well, I guess the uninformed and misinformed are everywhere.
I don't know what the term "Common Core" means nor do I care. So that makes me uninformed and misinformed I guess......

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Watch the video of how you now add 9 + 6.

http://www.wgrz.com/story/news/local...lper/14925331/

Yes standards may be the same, but I can see how kids can easily be bored then it takes close to a minute to solve what could be solved in seconds.
I just watched that video - I am absolutely speechless........

Besides hearing that the kiddies "might be uncomfortable" with looking at that simple math problem (give me a break) they are suggesting to use a base of 10. Well if we all would use a base of 10 for everything why aren't we using the metric system?
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Old 02-25-2015, 11:14 PM
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Well if we all would use a base of 10 for everything why aren't we using the metric system?
Bingo, we have a winner.

You don't have to be a gifted kid to be bored with this stuff. The average kid will be bored silly waiting around almost a minute to get the answer. Are there kids that may need this style to figure it out, sure.

Maybe the key word to all of this is common. Let's teach to the lowest common denominator, and bore the hell out of the majority of the kids. After all they're all equal and all the same.
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