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History history n. A record or narrative description of past events and times.

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  #1  
Old 03-13-2015, 10:17 PM
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Default 1918 Flu

On March 11, 1918, company cook Albert Gitchell reported to the infirmary at Camp Funston in Fort Riley, Kansas with complaints of a “bad cold.” By noon that same day, over one hundred cases of the same illness had been reported. The 1918 Flu Epidemic had begun.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexpe...za-first-wave/

A friend of mine had this to say about it. "I lost two aunts, aged 12 and 10. My uncle lost his wife and baby. My grandpa lost his first wife and two babies. Po lost his grandmother. It was an awful time... My aunts who died were taking care of sick family members and just went to a back bedroom and laid down and died together. I have their school books and dolls..."
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Old 10-24-2015, 12:59 AM
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Two teen age girls in the extended family died during the 1918 Flu Epidemic. While the family was at the cemetery burying the older girl, they arrived home to learn her younger sister has also died.

It was a very distressing and extremely sad time for many families.

Last edited by Jjr; 10-24-2015 at 01:01 AM. Reason: correcting spelling
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Old 10-24-2015, 05:48 AM
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I had an uncle who enlisted in the army in 1917, then spent the majority of his enlistment caring for flu victims somewhere in New York. He never contracted the disease.
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Old 10-24-2015, 07:14 PM
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My Dad lost a younger brother, maybe 2 - 3 years old..
His next brother was born mid year 1918, and survived..

I don't know of any other family members regardless of how related lost to that during that time.. With medicine of the time it was a bad thing to have happen..

Makes you wonder.... With health care, immunization, and sanitation the way it is in many parts of the world... And the ability of most anyone in the world able to travel anywhere in the world quite quickly in this age..

Why hasn't there been more health issues then there seems to be going on ??
Have most of the world just not heard about outbreaks ?? Or is the perfect storm of illness waiting to happen somewhere yet ??

Take care..
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Old 10-24-2015, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyobuckaroo View Post
Makes you wonder.... With health care, immunization, and sanitation the way it is in many parts of the world... And the ability of most anyone in the world able to travel anywhere in the world quite quickly in this age..

Why hasn't there been more health issues then there seems to be going on ??
Have most of the world just not heard about outbreaks ?? Or is the perfect storm of illness waiting to happen somewhere yet ??

Take care..
It is definitely worthy to keep a watchful eye on, especially when something like E-Bola is on the prowl.

With two aging parents in the home, (Mother & Mother-in-Law) we are also selective in where we go during the fall & winter months to try and avoid any unnecessary exposure. We monitor both the local & national news for any reported local or regional outbreaks of the flu or other communicable diseases.
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Old 10-31-2015, 08:43 AM
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The flu of 1918 was rather unique in its effects on the death rate. Influenza strains are classified according to the particular H & N proteins they carry in their coats. Bu that doesn't tell the whole story, much like judging a person by his skin color doesn't tell you what's on the inside.

That particular strain has come around again without producing the same terrible results. Is it that some other factor contained within the virus conferring its actual virulence changed--that's the natural course of most deadly bugs: a bug that kills its host kills itself, so those bugs left to spread are the less virulent ones-- or did some host factors change? Those host factors could include poor nutrition or stress during the war years.

While several of you had multiple family members affected, my rather large family of Sicilian immigrants went completely unscathed. Maybe it was all that tomato sauce and wine?

BTW- the flu shot does not change the death rate from flu (same rate in vaccinated and in unvaccinated populations) except in the elderly (>85y/o), but it doesn't change the overall death rate in that group either, just the the rate of those deaths signed out as "influenza."
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Old 11-01-2015, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doc View Post
BTW- the flu shot does not change the death rate from flu (same rate in vaccinated and in unvaccinated populations) except in the elderly (>85y/o), but it doesn't change the overall death rate in that group either, just the the rate of those deaths signed out as "influenza."
Since you have mentioned the flu shots, what is your opinion on the correlation between the flu shots and Alzheimer's?

I have read one report from a doctor who made a real strong case between the two and absolutely recommended against anyone taking the flu shots. His research would certainly cause any sensible person to pause and seriously consider if taking a flu shot would be in their best interest.

An older gentleman I worked with religiously took the flu shots each year and he was stricken with and so severely effected by Alzheimer's the last few years of his life, he absolutely did not know who he was.
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Old 11-02-2015, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Jjr View Post
Since you have mentioned the flu shots, what is your opinion on the correlation between the flu shots and Alzheimer's?

I have read one report from a doctor who made a real strong case between the two and absolutely recommended against anyone taking the flu shots. His research would certainly cause any sensible person to pause and seriously consider if taking a flu shot would be in their best interest.

An older gentleman I worked with religiously took the flu shots each year and he was stricken with and so severely effected by Alzheimer's the last few years of his life, he absolutely did not know who he was.
Jjr,
This is very interesting and closer to home. Do you have a link or location for the report?
My wife has been diagnosed with Alzheimer's for several years. She seems to plateau for a period of time then loose more ability to function.
She does not have the outbursts usually associated with Alzheimer's but may have degenerative dementia instead. She experienced two seizures on October, about three weeks apart. An EEG and MRI reveiled nothing to indicate a cause for seizures. She had a Flu shot in mid October between the seizures then last week her Neurologist put her on Keppra after the second seizure.

There has been a distinct deterioration in her ability to function. I thought it was Keppra but now you have raised the possibility of Flu sots having an effect.

I would greatly appreciate any additional resourcesor information you may have.
Thanks,
JR
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Old 11-03-2015, 12:56 AM
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First, let me say, I certainly feel for your situation and a sense of helplessness for you & your wife.

Now to do a quick update/summary from memory, J R Adams.

The doctor who was doing the investigation, began his research after his own father who he described as being a robust and manly individual, had a history of taking annual flu vaccinations. In his senior years the father was diagnosed with Alzheimer's Disease.

Looking back the investigator discovered the increased diagnosis of Alzheimer's closely paralleled the readily availability and "pushing" of the flu shots annually. Certainly not proof, but questions were unanswered.

The article was in a magazine if I remember correctly, and it seems to be from a couple of years ago. I will ask the wife what she remembers, since she read the article and suggested I read it too. We will be on the run the next two weeks. Going out of town tomorrow morning to hunt this week and out of state next week for some more medical tests on the wife, before surgery is scheduled, on her. I will look for more information on the doctor's name and where the report is located, if possible to find that information and pass it along to you.

This summary probably did not help you much, but possibly doc has seen the same report and can comment further when he checks back in.

I have never taken but a couple of flu shots (one possibly two), but after reading this report referenced, I don't believe there will ever be a flu shot in my future, and the wife feels the exact same way.

Last edited by Jjr; 11-03-2015 at 01:26 AM. Reason: correcting spelling
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Old 11-03-2015, 01:24 AM
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Default Hugh Fudenberg, M.D. Alzheimer's Research

A quick search of the internet, and this may not be the author of the article I read. However.....

According to Hugh Fudenberg, M.D., the worlds leading Immunogeneticist and 13th most quoted Biologist of our time: If an individual has had five consecutive flu shots between 1970 - 1980, the years studied, his/her chances of contracting Alzheimer's disease is TEN TIMES GREATER (emphasis added mine) than if he/she had two, one or no flu shots. Dr. Fudenberg continued that it is due to the mercury and aluminum that is in every shot.

I/we have read other reports associating aluminum cookware with Alzheimer's and with the exception of a couple of specialty aluminum camping cookware, we eliminated everything aluminum from the home kitchen two decades or more in the past and quit purchasing soft drinks in aluminum cans also. Admitted the plastic bottles seem to have their own unique problems too, which reminds me of the Bobby Bare song: "Food Blues!"

I will still look for the original article which started the conversation, but this gives you a place to begin some research of your own. Hope it helps.

Last edited by Jjr; 11-03-2015 at 01:28 AM. Reason: spelling correction
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Old 11-03-2015, 11:24 AM
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Thanks,
JR
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Old 11-05-2015, 02:58 AM
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I haven't heard of that info about flu shot & Alzheimer's, but using some deductive reasoning and the info given above:

a) keep in mind that correlation does not prove cause & effect

b) who gets flu shots?-- people who are more worried about their health and go to the doctor more, therefore, are more likely to see the doctor and be "officially diagnosed" with Alzheimer's as they age.

c) the flu shot first came out in '79, and coronary bypass ~'75: life expectancy started going up about then, so people were living longer, therefore more likely to live into their late 70s & 80s long enough to get Alzheimer's. That's also the period when Alzheimer's was getting into the news, ie- more awareness. [In fact, prior to the late 1970s, "Alzheimer's" was only diagnosed for those fitting the original description by Dr. Alzheimer: Pre-senile dementia, occurring only in those <60 y/o.]

Technically, Alzhiemer's Disease is pre-senile dementia, but lately it has been used to diagnose any dementia resulting from deposition of amyloid protein in the brain and finding "neurofibrillatory tangles" on biopsy (or autopsy). It's not the only cause for dementia in the elderly and is probably diagnosed too often just for the sake of convenience.

I find it hard to believe the tiny bit of Al or Hg in a vaccine could have anything to do with the changes seen under the microscope. OTOH- there's a growing volume of evidence that exposure to gluten or hi carb diets over the course of a lifetime may be involved with that amyloid deposition.

JR: aging is not a smooth slide downhill, but a step process, as you have unfortunately witnessed. Seizures are not typically part of Alzheimer's. Your wife's doctor looked for tumors & infarcts (stroke areas) but didn't find any large enough to see. I'd venture a guess that your wife's problem is really due to "lacunar infarcts" (small strokes too small to see on scans). Those often produce those step wise deteriorations and one could serve as an irritative focus in the brain resulting in seizures.

Last edited by doc; 11-05-2015 at 03:09 AM.
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Old 11-05-2015, 12:03 PM
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Not to derail this thread and if you need to move this feel free, but:

doc, If high carb diets are bad for you what do you have to say about a billion Chinese eating rice everyday? Unless they have adopted the Western diet they appear trim and healthy.
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Old 11-05-2015, 11:58 PM
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Hi carb diets are obviously bad for diabetics, and may be bad for others. Hi carb foods score hi on the "inflammatory index."

Not an expert on the health problems of the Chinese, but traditionally food has been hard to get in China. When a small bowl of rice is your only meal for the day, you probably starve to death before you have time to develop a disease.
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Old 11-06-2015, 11:54 PM
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Mr. Adams, the wife wanted to believe the original article was encountered in the Reader Digest Magazine, but we still have not been able to locate that article. As time permits, I will continue to look for it.
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Old 11-07-2015, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doc View Post
I haven't heard of that info about flu shot & Alzheimer's, but using some deductive reasoning and the info given above:

a) keep in mind that correlation does not prove cause & effect

b) who gets flu shots?-- people who are more worried about their health and go to the doctor more, therefore, are more likely to see the doctor and be "officially diagnosed" with Alzheimer's as they age.

c) the flu shot first came out in '79, and coronary bypass ~'75: life expectancy started going up about then, so people were living longer, therefore more likely to live into their late 70s & 80s long enough to get Alzheimer's. That's also the period when Alzheimer's was getting into the news, ie- more awareness. [In fact, prior to the late 1970s, "Alzheimer's" was only diagnosed for those fitting the original description by Dr. Alzheimer: Pre-senile dementia, occurring only in those <60 y/o.]

Technically, Alzhiemer's Disease is pre-senile dementia, but lately it has been used to diagnose any dementia resulting from deposition of amyloid protein in the brain and finding "neurofibrillatory tangles" on biopsy (or autopsy). It's not the only cause for dementia in the elderly and is probably diagnosed too often just for the sake of convenience.

I find it hard to believe the tiny bit of Al or Hg in a vaccine could have anything to do with the changes seen under the microscope. OTOH- there's a growing volume of evidence that exposure to gluten or hi carb diets over the course of a lifetime may be involved with that amyloid deposition.

JR: aging is not a smooth slide downhill, but a step process, as you have unfortunately witnessed. Seizures are not typically part of Alzheimer's. Your wife's doctor looked for tumors & infarcts (stroke areas) but didn't find any large enough to see. I'd venture a guess that your wife's problem is really due to "lacunar infarcts" (small strokes too small to see on scans). Those often produce those step wise deteriorations and one could serve as an irritative focus in the brain resulting in seizures.
A lot of relevance in your comments doc.

Every controversy always has advocates and detractors with many caught in the middle not knowing who to believe since proponents on both sides are routinely recognized as experts in their field.

I learned a long time ago to never say, "NEVER!" Never is a long time and research does change with increased technological advances, and although often touted as a joke, "depending on who is paying for the research." But I suspect there might be some truth in that statement, from closed minded individuals clinging to belief, they refuse to concede, or others just trying to achieve name recognition for themselves at the expense of that group in the middle still not knowing who to believe.

Sometimes even the Charlatans can make a very convenience case for their theory. Which reminds me of the cartoon, I remember from my time doing research while employed at LSU. The cartoon illustrates a researchers in a lab coat with phone in hand, as if speaking to someone, while the entire room behind him reveals shelves and shelves of limp rats hanging from a rat trap. The caption below the cartoons illustration, reads: "This here the FDA. I want to report a correlation I have discovered between cheese and the death of rats." The correlation portrayed was true and factual, but the idea presented in the cartoon, lead one to believe the researcher was attempting to grossly misrepresent those same facts.

But back to the question raised, is there a basis or a mere coincidence between the increased diagnosis of Alzheimer's and the increased use of flu shots? I don't know, but I sure wish there were some better clear cut answers.
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