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  #1  
Old 06-09-2015, 05:57 PM
yardburd yardburd is offline
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Default WTSHTF will you be your brother's keeper?

I have lately given much thought to this problem and seek your opinion/answer.
Assume that the worst has happened and you find yourself in the position of being prepared to deal with it. You have an adequate amount of grub, guns and water to provide for your family when, one month into the situation, your neighbor shows up a your door with family in tow and wants you to share.
What you do? You have prepared and he has not. If you do share, you reduce the time your preparations will last your family and expose them to deprivation.
Are you your brother's keeper in this situation? I think not and base my decision on biblical precedent. When Noah built the Ark, he was a prepper. When the floods came, those who had not prepared wanted to be included in Noah's crew. Noah, apparently with God's blessing, shut the door in their faces and sailed off to preserve life on the planet. As shall I. Comments?
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Old 06-09-2015, 06:30 PM
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God's Country Male God's Country is offline
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To each his own.

Personally, and probably depending on the gravity of the situation, no.
If you want to live in a post shtf commune go find one. Ultimately it may come to that for most of us, but it's not starting in my house, and on my land that I busted my hump to tend and keep. I've spent my entire life working hard and paying taxes for the freeloading access card toting masses to have a free ride, and it won't continue post shtf on my back any longer.

IMO anyone who sincerely needs help and may be deserving of it won't come hat in hand, but with a shovel and determination to work hard with no expectations. The other 99% were either freeloaders or spent their time and money on things that no longer matter. Oh well we all make choices in life.
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Old 06-09-2015, 06:58 PM
gundog10 Male gundog10 is offline
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I really like God's country response (wish we had a LIKE button). It my have to do with the time of year. If it is fall during harvest season and I know without a doubt I have more produce then I can preserve, dry, and store then possibly. But, you better come with something to trade! Otherwise, you will find yourself on the wrong side of my law.
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Old 06-09-2015, 08:27 PM
susang Female susang is offline
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Probably not. I would worry about a community type setting as there are usually people who will take advantage of one's good nature. Certainly would not help those who could have done it on their own. This topic has come up before and I may have been a little more easy going then. Sadly I doubt I would help family either. I might help the children we have three great grandkids, that's it. Even that is problematic as I think parents could be more prepared. When SHTF that new x-box or tablet won't feed the kids, it probably won't even work. This may seem harsh but hubby and I were recently a little 'stressed' because we helped a family member, not the first time either. No one came to our aide. We are back on track now thanks to our being prepared with food. My thinking is not out of revenge, more I have as much right to survive as the next person.
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Old 06-09-2015, 09:14 PM
Lurch Male Lurch is offline
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If they have the right skills, I would definitely take them in. My nearest neighbor is an ER doctor and I would absolutely let him in.
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Old 06-09-2015, 10:39 PM
susang Female susang is offline
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If they have the right skills, I would definitely take them in. My nearest neighbor is an ER doctor and I would absolutely let him in.
I was an ER nurse does that count. Seriously a lot of doctors I know here tend to be prepared. I think any kind of medical knowledge, helps. Simply knowing what drugs to keep on hand and or how animal meds can be used and work on humans. How to do sutures could be very helpful. I feel sometimes people just don't look around. Where to get medical supplies, syringes, injectable meds in powder form...
I also find people around me are prepared for one disaster and so many people I know rely on freezers and electric. Flashlights???
I know what we have won't last forever but it will give us a great start.
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Old 06-10-2015, 12:39 AM
joejeep92 Male joejeep92 is offline
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I think if you look closer at the Noah story, those that did not enter the ark were not worthy to enter the ark based on their actions. We have an obligation to help our neighbors, also moving further, when were you hungry and naked and we did not feed and clothe you? However, I do not tolerate freeloaders in my daily life now so I don't see a huge reason to tolerate them in extreme situations.
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Old 06-10-2015, 12:48 AM
HawaiiDi HawaiiDi is offline
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Depends who they are....can they work, keep their own, have morals, got some form of integrity then yes, we can work together, people helping people. But there are the lazy ones, incapable of doing anything especially doing their share....the takers ....like other societies they are outcast because they are a danger to your well being and life. I think when there is disaster....you must weigh heavy on each choice you make. If they are walking in ....we must be valuable in trade or skill.
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Old 06-10-2015, 04:29 AM
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randallhilton Male randallhilton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yardburd View Post
Assume that the worst has happened and you find yourself in the position of being prepared to deal with it. You have an adequate amount of grub, guns and water to provide for your family when, one month into the situation, your neighbor shows up a your door with family in tow and wants you to share.
What you do?
This topic gets tossed around often and I find myself starting almost from scratch every time I ponder it.

Here's where I am today -- A theme I often pick up, and it's already evident in responses to this particular thread, is that in order to "deserve" help people need to have resources to bring to the game. It may sound harsh but I believe this is absolutely necessary to the re-establishment of a community.

Consider: If you have food stores to keep your family going for a year but you're not able to produce your own supply then you're really only a little better off than the people who didn't prep at all. If, however, you're able to leverage your supplies by expanding labor and skills to produce the necessities then not only will your family do better but so will those whom you have deemed worthy to join you.

Keep in mind -- especially in the urban and suburban areas -- the fact that someone didn't prep doesn't automatically mean they're not industrious. Working people can barely keep their heads above water these days, much less put away for disaster day.

Rural or urban, if you don't have allies, you will lose your supplies. Period. So, the best option, it seems to me, is to prepare to accept selected people when the time comes. Even better is to have associations already in place (a difficult task since so many able bodied people don't have the same drive for preparation as we might).

But the key word is: Resources. What can the neighbor contribute to the effort?

Which then brings along another question: How far do we go in caring for the ill and injured? That's for another thread I think.
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  #10  
Old 06-10-2015, 04:34 AM
Kachad Male Kachad is offline
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That's a hard question to answer.

I try to get to know members of the community, and know which ones work and which are deadbeats. I would have no problem bartering with the ones that work, and would appreciate the opportunity.

The deadbeats are deadbeats, but if they wanted to work for something in return, see no problem trading labor for goods.

One thing that I know for sure, there's always work and an extra pair of hands are always needed. What I wouldn't do is provide handouts. Y'want help - earn it, benefits all parties involved.

I think the "Solo Survivor" idea is extremely hard to achieve. I think it can be done, but there are always activities that are accomplished better with a group. My opinion is that group cooperation is a good thing, but don't expect handouts.
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Old 06-10-2015, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God's Country View Post
To each his own.

Personally, and probably depending on the gravity of the situation, no.
If you want to live in a post shtf commune go find one. Ultimately it may come to that for most of us, but it's not starting in my house, and on my land that I busted my hump to tend and keep. I've spent my entire life working hard and paying taxes for the freeloading access card toting masses to have a free ride, and it won't continue post shtf on my back any longer.

IMO anyone who sincerely needs help and may be deserving of it won't come hat in hand, but with a shovel and determination to work hard with no expectations. The other 99% were either freeloaders or spent their time and money on things that no longer matter. Oh well we all make choices in life.
Well said and I agree with all you said 100%!
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:43 PM
Setanta Male Setanta is offline
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there is a difference betwen being self reliant, a survivalist, and a prepper. a survivalist can live off the land with nothing but the suff in their pack for months, a prepper stockpiles stuff that will last for some amount of time, and a self reliant person generally lives without concern for outside resources.

having my off grid homestead i grow and store food, and save seed, generate all my own power, cut firewood for heat, etc. if things got really bad i would be able to support up to 4 other people with what i have now, if they were to pull their own weight with hard labor then it could be many more.

most of my neighbors are Amish, and in a shtf situation i would rather have amish neighbors than preppers. as things stand now the amish farms hire me to do some of their work and likewise i hire them to do things i can't. if i could not buy gas for my equipment i am sure they would till my field and use their wagon to move loads of firewood, but they would expect me to return the favor and barter either money, labor, or goods as payment.

if my non amish neighbors showed up asking for a handout they would get booted off my land, i don't tollerate slackers, however i would be more than willing to barter with them, as such i have equipment that can till up their yard without gas, and usually have extra seed. i would help them get going with self sufficency but won't do things for them, unless they paid me to do it, with some goods or service i lack.

preppers tend to think in terms of buying and stockpiling supplies and horde and covet their stash, self reliant types tend to think in terms of procucing things themselves and are acutly aware of what they can and cannot do. for instance I can identify every tree and shrub in the region, can log with a lot of different tools, can farm, but i am useless when it comes to welding, or engine repair (except small ones like chainsaws). I could take the time and effort to learn but what little i need can easily be gained by trading with the guy down the road who does welding, or the other guy who is a mechanic (the mechanic heats his home with wood)
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Old 06-10-2015, 06:44 PM
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oldmaidnc Female oldmaidnc is offline
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Unfotunately I am currently only a beginning prepper - with an ultimate goal of self reliance if shtf holds off long enough. That said, as I read each response, I didn't disagree with anyone. What my faith tells me to do and what common sense tells me are two different things. But I think my response would be based on the neighbor's skills - and how big his family is. The other consideration is--how dangerous is the neighbor if you turn them away, and are you willing to eliminate that danger? Heavy topic.
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Old 06-10-2015, 08:43 PM
Terri Terri is offline
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There are neighbors and there are neighbors. Noah had to get the doors closed PDQ in the face of a mob, and your neighbor and kids are not a mob an the flood waters are not 2 inches from your door.

I would decide on a case by case basis.

Aw, heck: I could never turn down a hungry child: it just is not in me. Though I would have to limit the outgo somehow because it does nobody and good if it is all eaten and THEN everybody starves.
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Old 06-10-2015, 09:43 PM
joejeep92 Male joejeep92 is offline
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Setanta-sounds like you have an ideal situation that I am very jealous of.
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  #16  
Old 06-11-2015, 12:08 AM
Kachad Male Kachad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joejeep92 View Post
Setanta-sounds like you have an ideal situation that I am very jealous of.
x2 on that
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Old 06-11-2015, 12:25 AM
Kachad Male Kachad is offline
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Originally Posted by oldmaidnc View Post
Unfotunately I am currently only a beginning prepper - with an ultimate goal of self reliance if shtf holds off long enough. That said, as I read each response, I didn't disagree with anyone. What my faith tells me to do and what common sense tells me are two different things. But I think my response would be based on the neighbor's skills - and how big his family is. The other consideration is--how dangerous is the neighbor if you turn them away, and are you willing to eliminate that danger? Heavy topic.
It begins somewhere, eh?

Spot on about the point that there are neighbors and then there are neighbors.

When I first started working our property, I thought I had two sketchy neighbors and one solid.

The One Solid neighbor has the dead end road named after him, so he's been there awhile. I was able to spend a few evenings with him during dinners at The Legion, because our Family is pretty active in that regard. Nice old couple. She watches the road like a hawk. Asked me why I seemed to use three different vehicles to drive to my Property. Heh. (.75 miles away)

The other neighbor is a hunting group that comes up infrequently except during deer season. Met a couple of the younger bucks first, they made some territorial type of comments, which I didn't really make much reply to. Understandable, my property was timber land and he had a deer-stand on it.

Best damn stand that I've ever sat, although he never shot anything off of it. Probably because he's a bit fidgety.

Anyways, stopped in their camp during deer season, second day (I shot my deer the first) ... and met the Old Man of the Camp. Had a 12 pack of beer and a bottle of blackberry brandy. Seems like they don't have the blackberry tradition in their camp, so introduced it to the Old Man and we made a dent in the bottle. His Gang came in later, saw them at the local bar the next evening, they bought me a couple shots of blackberry ... and poof ... good neighbor rating is confirmed. (.5 miles away)

The third remains elusive. He has a personal junkyard that is staggering. So, of course that makes me judge him before meeting him. Yeah, I know, not proper thinking and all that - but hey, I google earthed his place along with seeing his house from the river (nice fishing hole in front of his house, but I'm not spying on him . Anyways, still haven't met that couple, but lines of communication have been opened informally between our Family and them. Plus I know people that know him, so it will happen.

I can predict having that turn into a positive experience, because he sure does have a lot of interesting stuff around that looks pretty damned useful and .. not being used.

So I guess this rambling could be condensed down to a statement along the lines of - build your community ties fast, tight, and honorable long before hard hard times.
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Old 06-11-2015, 05:18 PM
Lurch Male Lurch is offline
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I love junkyards. I would gravitate towards Junkyard Man.
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Old 06-19-2015, 06:47 PM
CountryMom22 Female CountryMom22 is offline
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Kachad said it all. Don't wait for the SHTF scenario to happen before building your bridges with the neighbors or community. You can find out now whether or not you can trust someone. If you wait till there's trouble, they may tell you what you want to hear, not the truth. Consider your relationships with neighbors as part of your personal prepping.
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Old 06-19-2015, 07:40 PM
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Personal prepping for me has nothing to do with any neighbors and don't need or want to.
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